Anonymous wrote:My adult kids are doing great and they are the opposite of duds. But I have plenty of friends and family whose kids are duds but their parents aren’t. I’m not sure of the cause of the dud-ness, but I think being spoiled has something to do with it as all the families are UMC or UC.

The reason they are all UMC/UC is because you wouldn’t call someone from a lower class family a dud. Lack of ambition, poor career potential, low educational attainment, etc are the norm - those who achieve more stand out as exceptions. “Dud” is only possible when you start with elevated expectations and have somewhere to drop to. It’s a very classist phrase.

Anonymous wrote:I’m interested in the nature vs. nurture thing, particularly work ethic.

Dud XDH, his mom and two siblings all lack anything resembling a work ethic. I could tell stories, but I don’t want to out them. Suffice it to say, none of the three kids is really financially viable, although two of them hold down jobs at least. My parents and sibling are really hard working.

My DD has an amazing work ethic, attended a top ivy, has won merit scholarships to grad school, and so on. It’s hard to get DS off the sofa and at 25 he’s definitely not able to support himself.

What does DCUM say? Did I parent two kids completely differently? Is there something genetic going on?

I’ve googled the heredibility of work ethic and studies say different things.

I already posted that boys relate to their father, and he is their role model. You were a role model for your DD, not your son, unfortunately.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All of you calling your adult children "duds" need to look in the mirror.

No, I'm not being mean. No kid is a dud in a vacuum, people grow and learn by those around them. A kid who grew up in impoverished neighborhoods with a lot of drugs often will turn to crime and drugs as an adult not because they were "duds" but because that is what they say growing up and that is what they know. Same with a lazy, spoiled, upper middle class-born 25 year old, kids pick up their personality.

So you think dudness is nurture vs. nature? I think the opposite and that it's nature. Duds are in every corner of society. The only difference is that it's more easily hidden if one is wealthy. A wealthy dud man can throw family money at his deficiencies.

I think it's nature. What I wonder is why so many of these duds are able to marry and have children? Why aren't women picking better?

I thought I could change him.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All of you calling your adult children "duds" need to look in the mirror.

No, I'm not being mean. No kid is a dud in a vacuum, people grow and learn by those around them. A kid who grew up in impoverished neighborhoods with a lot of drugs often will turn to crime and drugs as an adult not because they were "duds" but because that is what they say growing up and that is what they know. Same with a lazy, spoiled, upper middle class-born 25 year old, kids pick up their personality.

So you think dudness is nurture vs. nature? I think the opposite and that it's nature. Duds are in every corner of society. The only difference is that it's more easily hidden if one is wealthy. A wealthy dud man can throw family money at his deficiencies.

Hunter Biden is a perfect example.

Interesting. How so?

His brother, Beau Biden, was a hard-working lawyer that devoted his life to public service. He served overseas in the Army as a military officer and was the Delaware Attorney General. Same mom and dad, and a vastly different human than Hunter.

My step-BIL is a total dud. As a parent, I now feel a lot of empathy for my step-FIL because it must be hard for him to watch (even though with the benefit of hindsight he make a lot of parenting decisions that contributed to his son being a dud). Step-BIL is 50, went to law school but has been laid-off from several low-level legal jobs and now is basically 100% subsidized by his parents. He lives in a small rental in a cheap midwestern city and drives his parents' old cars. He tends to look down on people who are successful for "selling out". He also believes a lot of crazy internet rumors and almost died of COVID because he wouldn't get vaccinated. He only has one friend he sees regularly and has only had one serious girlfriend since college and that was just for a few years (she was a foreign student and I think she dropped him once she had been in the US for long enough to realize she was dating a loser). he is always stopping by to hang out with his parents because he has nothing else going on. At least he is nice to his parents but the entire thing kind of painful to watch. His sister, in contrast, is successful with two kids.

Anonymous wrote:I’m interested in the nature vs. nurture thing, particularly work ethic.

Dud XDH, his mom and two siblings all lack anything resembling a work ethic. I could tell stories, but I don’t want to out them. Suffice it to say, none of the three kids is really financially viable, although two of them hold down jobs at least. My parents and sibling are really hard working.

My DD has an amazing work ethic, attended a top ivy, has won merit scholarships to grad school, and so on. It’s hard to get DS off the sofa and at 25 he’s definitely not able to support himself.

What does DCUM say? Did I parent two kids completely differently? Is there something genetic going on?

I’ve googled the heredibility of work ethic and studies say different things.

I think it's genetic. Just like one child inherited your grey eyes and the other child inherited your DH's smile. Our thumb prints are on our children in more ways than we realize.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dud males should just become SAHDs. We need to let this happen. It’s not a bad thing. And we should use less derogatory language to describe them.
It’s just like dud females in our society’s past could hide out as SAHMs.
I’m NOT saying all SAHMs are duds. I’m saying that we all know at least one SAHM who is more of a dud than other moms who manage to be more productive in their roles.

SAHMs are generally married to men that are fairly successful. These men typically don’t pick duds. I can’t think of a single SAHM I know that I would describe as a dud.

The alpha males want it all - successful career, loads of money, well educated good looking wife, well run households and high achieving kids. They look for women who are intelligent, college educated, umc or above, can manage the socializing, household and kids - without their (DH) input. In DMV you will meet the h umc and rich SAHMs who have impressive academic and career credentials and who are very connected.

Anonymous wrote:I’m interested in the nature vs. nurture thing, particularly work ethic.

Dud XDH, his mom and two siblings all lack anything resembling a work ethic. I could tell stories, but I don’t want to out them. Suffice it to say, none of the three kids is really financially viable, although two of them hold down jobs at least. My parents and sibling are really hard working.

My DD has an amazing work ethic, attended a top ivy, has won merit scholarships to grad school, and so on. It’s hard to get DS off the sofa and at 25 he’s definitely not able to support himself.

What does DCUM say? Did I parent two kids completely differently? Is there something genetic going on?

I’ve googled the heredibility of work ethic and studies say different things.

Possibly genetic, but more likely he learned from his male role model (dad)

I’m interested in the nature vs. nurture thing, particularly work ethic.

Dud XDH, his mom and two siblings all lack anything resembling a work ethic. I could tell stories, but I don’t want to out them. Suffice it to say, none of the three kids is really financially viable, although two of them hold down jobs at least. My parents and sibling are really hard working.

My DD has an amazing work ethic, attended a top ivy, has won merit scholarships to grad school, and so on. It’s hard to get DS off the sofa and at 25 he’s definitely not able to support himself.

What does DCUM say? Did I parent two kids completely differently? Is there something genetic going on?

I’ve googled the heredibility of work ethic and studies say different things.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All of you calling your adult children "duds" need to look in the mirror.

No, I'm not being mean. No kid is a dud in a vacuum, people grow and learn by those around them. A kid who grew up in impoverished neighborhoods with a lot of drugs often will turn to crime and drugs as an adult not because they were "duds" but because that is what they say growing up and that is what they know. Same with a lazy, spoiled, upper middle class-born 25 year old, kids pick up their personality.

So you think dudness is nurture vs. nature? I think the opposite and that it's nature. Duds are in every corner of society. The only difference is that it's more easily hidden if one is wealthy. A wealthy dud man can throw family money at his deficiencies.

I think it's nature. What I wonder is why so many of these duds are able to marry and have children? Why aren't women picking better?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All of you calling your adult children "duds" need to look in the mirror.

No, I'm not being mean. No kid is a dud in a vacuum, people grow and learn by those around them. A kid who grew up in impoverished neighborhoods with a lot of drugs often will turn to crime and drugs as an adult not because they were "duds" but because that is what they say growing up and that is what they know. Same with a lazy, spoiled, upper middle class-born 25 year old, kids pick up their personality.

So you think dudness is nurture vs. nature? I think the opposite and that it's nature. Duds are in every corner of society. The only difference is that it's more easily hidden if one is wealthy. A wealthy dud man can throw family money at his deficiencies.

Hunter Biden is a perfect example.

Interesting. How so?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think it’s heredity. More than likely, when parents don’t agree on childrearing, kids take the easy way out.

Between stuff like ADHD, which are very inheritable, and ambition and general attitude, where you learn by example, the family you were born into and raised in, determines a lot of the outcomes.

Didn't read the whole thread, but Carl Jung once wrote that "The greatest burden a child must bear is the unlived life of the parents."

https://www.triplemoonpsychotherapy.com/blog/greatestburden

I used to find things like that interesting and intellectually challenging to think about. Now that I'm a parent, I really wonder if any of that crap -- er, stuff -- actually applies. So much of life as a parent is just trying to survive from one day to the next. Just SURVIVE. Is the unlived life of the parent really there, out of sight, influencing the child? Or is it just an integral part of the parent?

Unless you are living paycheck to paycheck, or have a dysfunctional marriage, you shouldn't be operating in survival mode as a parent once you are in the elementary school years. If you are still in this mode, then of course it is influencing the kid in a negative way.

Anonymous wrote:Dud males should just become SAHDs. We need to let this happen. It’s not a bad thing. And we should use less derogatory language to describe them.
It’s just like dud females in our society’s past could hide out as SAHMs.
I’m NOT saying all SAHMs are duds. I’m saying that we all know at least one SAHM who is more of a dud than other moms who manage to be more productive in their roles.

??? SAHD is actually a hard job. Why would a dud be good at this?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm the "smug" poster.

We have four grown daughters and none is anywhere near to being a dud. They're all smart, kind, well educated, caring, loving, funny, self-supporting, treat their parents extremely well, and the three who are married have all chosen partners who are wonderful people. We are truly blessed.

You're the "I did everything right" poster? I'm happy for you either way, but not sure why you would feel the need to post on this thread. It's like posting how thing and fit you are on a thread about trying to lose weight and get in shape. Sort of a weird need....

Np an agreed. I never understand the posters who jump on threads to boast about the opposite of the topic.

+1. Honestly it speaks to a different set of psychological problems.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All of you calling your adult children "duds" need to look in the mirror.

No, I'm not being mean. No kid is a dud in a vacuum, people grow and learn by those around them. A kid who grew up in impoverished neighborhoods with a lot of drugs often will turn to crime and drugs as an adult not because they were "duds" but because that is what they say growing up and that is what they know. Same with a lazy, spoiled, upper middle class-born 25 year old, kids pick up their personality.

So you think dudness is nurture vs. nature? I think the opposite and that it's nature. Duds are in every corner of society. The only difference is that it's more easily hidden if one is wealthy. A wealthy dud man can throw family money at his deficiencies.

Hunter Biden is a perfect example.