Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I had a medical abortion. The embryo heart stopped but because of other issues my body would not miscarry. I’m ever thankful that my doctor was kind and performed it before sepsis set in. People posting here know very little about the dangers of pregnancy.
I have had 3 friends with later MC who nearly bled to death. MC can be fatal.
Up until recently the main cause of death among women under 50 was childbirth or pregnancy complications of which there are many.
But nothing will change the pro choice attitude.

Yes this. It broke my heart to see abortion listed on my medical paperwork for a much wanted and desired pregnancy. But nothing was right with the pregnancy from the very first scans. I waited an agonizing 5 weeks for the heartbeat to stop. We all knew it would, it was just a matter of when. I was 11 weeks. Then my body would not give up the fetal tissue. I waited another two weeks to miscarry naturally and it would not happen. So I had a D&C. Traumatizing and the nurses didn’t help. I’d never had a general in my life and I woke up sobbing, to hear a nurse say “we’ve got a a weeper.”

What would have happened if I couldn’t get that D&C, even with a no longer viable pregnancy that had already lingered for weeks?

I am unaware of any state law that outlaws abortion for a non-viable pregnancy or one that is to protect the health of the mother.

And who decides that.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I had a medical abortion. The embryo heart stopped but because of other issues my body would not miscarry. I’m ever thankful that my doctor was kind and performed it before sepsis set in. People posting here know very little about the dangers of pregnancy.
I have had 3 friends with later MC who nearly bled to death. MC can be fatal.
Up until recently the main cause of death among women under 50 was childbirth or pregnancy complications of which there are many.
But nothing will change the pro choice attitude.

Yes this. It broke my heart to see abortion listed on my medical paperwork for a much wanted and desired pregnancy. But nothing was right with the pregnancy from the very first scans. I waited an agonizing 5 weeks for the heartbeat to stop. We all knew it would, it was just a matter of when. I was 11 weeks. Then my body would not give up the fetal tissue. I waited another two weeks to miscarry naturally and it would not happen. So I had a D&C. Traumatizing and the nurses didn’t help. I’d never had a general in my life and I woke up sobbing, to hear a nurse say “we’ve got a a weeper.”

What would have happened if I couldn’t get that D&C, even with a no longer viable pregnancy that had already lingered for weeks?

I am unaware of any state law that outlaws abortion for a non-viable pregnancy or one that is to protect the health of the mother.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thank you for sharing your story, OP. And I'm sorry for your loss.


But here's my abortion story: I've never needed one. And it doesn't matter if you wanted the baby or if you were raped or if it saved your life or whatever. It doesn't matter if your BC failed or if you're a "slut" or whatever, abortion is healthcare and it's a human right for women to have control over if or when they have a baby.

Let's get to work...

I for one think abortion is a hard, hard issue. It’s simply not as easy or simple an issue as the hard-core right, or hard-core left, would make it sound. But I have come to believe that the politics around this issue have everything to do with a bunch of (generally speaking) old white people trying to tell women how to have sex. You were raped! Okay, we give you permission. You sleep around? We forbid it. This issue is hard and no one, no one should have the power to make that decision for someone else.

This is cultural and the result of religious brain washing about “souls” in 8-week embryos. I am European and trust me when I tell you, it is not “a hard, hard issue” where I am from. If you are a reasonably fertile woman, every month you let an egg go with unfertilized you are killing a potential child.
To me, my period and a 6-week embryo are not substantially different and are a lot closer in terms of human development than a newborn is to an embryo. If you think of it that way, the scientific way versus the emotionally charged, religious way, it is not hard.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I delievered twins at 20 weeks and obviously they lived only a few hours, so I am truly sympathetic to your loss. I also endured non-stop and dangerous bleeding after a different delivery. So I understand a little bit what you went through. So please understand, I don't mean to be callous or dismissive. But, I am trying to understand how the abortion saved your life. It kind of sounds like the abortion endangered your life. What would have happened had the pregnancy been left to end on its own? Yes, it would have been difficult to know you were carrying a baby that would not survive, but it may very well have been a safer decision. Sometimes in life we suffer through very sad things. I have had my share. But I don't think it's accurate to say that abortion saved your life.

And this here is why a “life of the mother” exception is not enough. People will squabble about what is actually going to kill the pregnant person and what is just going to hurt her. At best there will obviously be a lot of harm, which is understood when there is no harm to the mother exception. But there will also be more material death.

But the above is not a political or even moral question, but truly one about what is best for the mother. Abortion at 20 weeks or later, as you can see from OP's post, is not a no-brainer. It can be dangerous and not in the best of interest of the mother. It's like pro-abortionists cannot see any nuane. I am pro-choice, so this is not political, but honestly. How can you read OP's story and not see that the abortion did not save her life. She her herself describes how it almost killed her.

Statistically speaking abortion is safer than child birth.

Anonymous wrote:I had a medical abortion. The embryo heart stopped but because of other issues my body would not miscarry. I’m ever thankful that my doctor was kind and performed it before sepsis set in. People posting here know very little about the dangers of pregnancy.
I have had 3 friends with later MC who nearly bled to death. MC can be fatal.
Up until recently the main cause of death among women under 50 was childbirth or pregnancy complications of which there are many.
But nothing will change the pro choice attitude.

Yes this. It broke my heart to see abortion listed on my medical paperwork for a much wanted and desired pregnancy. But nothing was right with the pregnancy from the very first scans. I waited an agonizing 5 weeks for the heartbeat to stop. We all knew it would, it was just a matter of when. I was 11 weeks. Then my body would not give up the fetal tissue. I waited another two weeks to miscarry naturally and it would not happen. So I had a D&C. Traumatizing and the nurses didn’t help. I’d never had a general in my life and I woke up sobbing, to hear a nurse say “we’ve got a a weeper.”

What would have happened if I couldn’t get that D&C, even with a no longer viable pregnancy that had already lingered for weeks?

I am PP. I terminated a pregnancy for Down syndrome. It is not incompatible with life. It just wasn’t something that my husband and I wanted for our lives and the life of our older DC. To me, that’s reason enough. And anyway, why do strangers care so much what others do with their genetic material?

Anonymous wrote:I’m very sorry for your loss, but it sounds like the abortion almost killed you. How was it your old choice? Why couldn’t you have waited to see if your body naturally miscarried?

Jesus Christ

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thanks to all who shared their stories. I don't think that can be easy. Thanks, OP.

I am pro-life.

I do not have strong feelings about the Supreme Court decision other than that it seems, from a legal perspective, reasonable.

I know a good number of people (including myself and one sibling and an adopted niece) who would not be here if our mom had not chosen life. Our mom couldn't really afford us. Her relationship choices were not good. Our grandparents urged her to abort because they believed her struggles as a single mom raising mixed race kids would be too great.

I want to join forces with the pro-choice side because I live in the real world; I hear and reflect on the stories like yours OP and others. But can we find a way to do it in a way (and I think, OP, you did) that allows choice while not elevating abortion as THE choice. I don't speak for any kind of movement, but I do know that 20% of people who go to pregnancy crisis centers (the kind many abortion advocates hate) go on to choose abortion anyway.

I know many people here perhaps hate people like me, think I'm stupid and ignorant, think it's not worth even talking to someone like me. But I just wanted to offer my appreciation of your generosity in sharing difficulty stories and offer my own perspective.

The way to allow choice without elevating abortion as THE choice is to keep abortion legal, keeping necessary medical care available for people in these situations while improving the actual material conditions of motherhood in this country.

I don't think you sound stupid or ignorant, so I think you probably know this. There's room for pro-life people in the pro-choice tent - the work to be done on that common ground is in building supports for women in areas other than abortion policy, not prosecuting and outlawing.

NP here. I'm also the pp who had to leave GW to get an abortion due to severe HG. I'm also adopted, if anyone thinks it's relevant.

I don't think the pro-life position is stupid or ignorant. I do think there are risks to pregnancy that a lot of people, across all political views, just don't know that much about. I'd certainly never heard of HG until I ended up in the ER with it. So, I include myself in this group.

For me, what keeps me pro-choice, even as someone who deeply respects my many pro-life friends, are questions like these. If we are going to allow "medical" abortion, then what conditions will count? Are we just going to keep adding and amending the law to specify conditions? What happens if a woman has a condition that isn't on the list but otherwise might be? Do she really have to die waiting for the legislature to pass a law? Some state legislatures only meet once every two years.

And what about mental health? If a pregnancy leads to a lifetime of PTSD, should the government to demand a woman endure that? How bad do the mental health effects have to be for abortion to be legal? And again, are we going to have to die waiting for the legislature to pass an amendment adding some new diagnosis to the list of "ok" abortions?

Further, pregnancy is always risky for all women, though clearly more for some than others. So, what risks to a woman's life will we require women to endure without having any say in the matter? Even mild HG can lead to a lifetime of health issues. There are no tests for HG prior to pregnancy, there is no cure, and few treatments, many of which don't work at all. (I was on five drugs, none of which worked, and I ended up in a rubber room from the side effects.) Should the government really be the one who decides what health risks a woman with HG takes?

Now that I've had HG I've learned about any number of other health issues that come with pregnancy. While I might be willing to take some of those risks, I would not be willing to endure others. And I'm pretty sure most women fall in the same camp. Some women may be willing to carry a pregnancy entirely without concern for their own lives, but I don't think that's where most women come down on it. I think most of us want some say if a pregnancy could lead to organ failure, death, or some other lifelong impact. And that's the crux of the problem with laws that outlaw abortion. It's very hard to write exclusions that allow women to manage their health and consent to associated risks because pregnancy itself is always dangerous to some degree.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I delievered twins at 20 weeks and obviously they lived only a few hours, so I am truly sympathetic to your loss. I also endured non-stop and dangerous bleeding after a different delivery. So I understand a little bit what you went through. So please understand, I don't mean to be callous or dismissive. But, I am trying to understand how the abortion saved your life. It kind of sounds like the abortion endangered your life. What would have happened had the pregnancy been left to end on its own? Yes, it would have been difficult to know you were carrying a baby that would not survive, but it may very well have been a safer decision. Sometimes in life we suffer through very sad things. I have had my share. But I don't think it's accurate to say that abortion saved your life.

And this here is why a “life of the mother” exception is not enough. People will squabble about what is actually going to kill the pregnant person and what is just going to hurt her. At best there will obviously be a lot of harm, which is understood when there is no harm to the mother exception. But there will also be more material death.

But the above is not a political or even moral question, but truly one about what is best for the mother. Abortion at 20 weeks or later, as you can see from OP's post, is not a no-brainer. It can be dangerous and not in the best of interest of the mother. It's like pro-abortionists cannot see any nuane. I am pro-choice, so this is not political, but honestly. How can you read OP's story and not see that the abortion did not save her life. She her herself describes how it almost killed her.

Maybe she didn’t want to raise a severely disabled child. That alone would be a good enough reason to terminate.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thanks to all who shared their stories. I don't think that can be easy. Thanks, OP.

I am pro-life.

I do not have strong feelings about the Supreme Court decision other than that it seems, from a legal perspective, reasonable.

I know a good number of people (including myself and one sibling and an adopted niece) who would not be here if our mom had not chosen life. Our mom couldn't really afford us. Her relationship choices were not good. Our grandparents urged her to abort because they believed her struggles as a single mom raising mixed race kids would be too great.

I want to join forces with the pro-choice side because I live in the real world; I hear and reflect on the stories like yours OP and others. But can we find a way to do it in a way (and I think, OP, you did) that allows choice while not elevating abortion as THE choice. I don't speak for any kind of movement, but I do know that 20% of people who go to pregnancy crisis centers (the kind many abortion advocates hate) go on to choose abortion anyway.

I know many people here perhaps hate people like me, think I'm stupid and ignorant, think it's not worth even talking to someone like me. But I just wanted to offer my appreciation of your generosity in sharing difficulty stories and offer my own perspective.

The thing that makes it unreasonable is stare decisis, which is what the justices who signed onto the opinion said they supported when they were confirmed. They all said Roe v. Wade was the law of the land and that you can't overturn settled constitutional law just because you want to.

A lot of people who don't like abortion have, rather than trying to restrict abortion access, looked at the reasons people get abortions and addressed those reasons.
A huge one is the one you mention: not being able to afford to raise a kid. Parenthood, at a certain stage of life, is like a financial death sentence, and it really doesn't need to be that way.

Yup. My Catholic in laws did this. They voted their understanding of pro-life, which was anti-war, pro-labor, pro-refugee, and pro-helping the poor - very Dorothy Day type people. They also opened and ran a shelter for homeless women and their kids, which is still operating. They really lived their beliefs in ways I admire.

Anonymous wrote:Thanks to all who shared their stories. I don't think that can be easy. Thanks, OP.

I am pro-life.

I do not have strong feelings about the Supreme Court decision other than that it seems, from a legal perspective, reasonable.

I know a good number of people (including myself and one sibling and an adopted niece) who would not be here if our mom had not chosen life. Our mom couldn't really afford us. Her relationship choices were not good. Our grandparents urged her to abort because they believed her struggles as a single mom raising mixed race kids would be too great.

I want to join forces with the pro-choice side because I live in the real world; I hear and reflect on the stories like yours OP and others. But can we find a way to do it in a way (and I think, OP, you did) that allows choice while not elevating abortion as THE choice. I don't speak for any kind of movement, but I do know that 20% of people who go to pregnancy crisis centers (the kind many abortion advocates hate) go on to choose abortion anyway.

I know many people here perhaps hate people like me, think I'm stupid and ignorant, think it's not worth even talking to someone like me. But I just wanted to offer my appreciation of your generosity in sharing difficulty stories and offer my own perspective.

The thing that makes it unreasonable is stare decisis, which is what the justices who signed onto the opinion said they supported when they were confirmed. They all said Roe v. Wade was the law of the land and that you can't overturn settled constitutional law just because you want to.

A lot of people who don't like abortion have, rather than trying to restrict abortion access, looked at the reasons people get abortions and addressed those reasons. A huge one is the one you mention: not being able to afford to raise a kid. Parenthood, at a certain stage of life, is like a financial death sentence, and it really doesn't need to be that way.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I delievered twins at 20 weeks and obviously they lived only a few hours, so I am truly sympathetic to your loss. I also endured non-stop and dangerous bleeding after a different delivery. So I understand a little bit what you went through. So please understand, I don't mean to be callous or dismissive. But, I am trying to understand how the abortion saved your life. It kind of sounds like the abortion endangered your life. What would have happened had the pregnancy been left to end on its own? Yes, it would have been difficult to know you were carrying a baby that would not survive, but it may very well have been a safer decision. Sometimes in life we suffer through very sad things. I have had my share. But I don't think it's accurate to say that abortion saved your life.

I mean I’m not a doctor but all my doctors told me I would be at higher risk of placental abruption if I waited. So maybe it hastened the inevitable but at least I was already in the OR when it happened.

What it hastened, by probabaly only a few hours, was delivery. In fact, my 20-week twins were born because of placental abruption and when that happens, so does spontaneous abortion--at 20 weeks, that means delivery of babies, non-viable babies. Trust me, I held mine. They are not a sack of cells as some people like to believe. I love that OP gets all kinds of sympathy for her choice to end the pregnancy, but mine ended without a choice and all I get is argument. I asked a thoughtful question, shared my opinion--which includes believing strongly in OP's and everyone else's right to abort their pregnancies--for any reason--but it's not good enough. Evidently, you're either with them on celebrating abortion or you're against them. Got it.

I’m not sure what your objection is. You are not OP’s doctor - OP’s doctor assessed that it was unsafe to continue the pregnancy. *that is what medical choice means.* that the doctor and patient decide. the fact that you delivered at 20 weeks after an abruption has nothing at all to do with OP’s situation.

You're not reading OP's posts very closely. If you had been, you would see what I know: the abortion was worse for her than had she waited. But fine, she made a choice. She was asked questions, changed her story. My familiarity with complications extends beyond my own loss and OP either misunderstood her situation or is changing her story to make this post work. According to the facts of her original story--before she started changing it, and even to an extend afterward--abortion did not save her life.

I am sorry for your loss, but you seem really invested in attacking the OP, who also lost a baby. Maybe you should bow out.

Actually, initially, I asked OP about some clarification, after expressing sympathy. The whole entire subject of this thread is "abortion saved my life." Once I asked, with great sympathy, whether in fact the abortion saved her life, or risked it (which the OP pretty much explains), I was attached by her and many other posters. If she is going to make a specious claim, with no medical evidence, she should anticipate some questions. Not invested in attaching anybody, but OP sounds like a selfish jerk at this point, honestly. She hasn't shown an ounce of sympathy for anybody on this thread, except the one other poster who chose abortion for medical reasons. I wonder what OP's opinion on those who choose it for lifestyle reasons is.

You didn’t ask. You asserted you knew better than OP and her doctors, and you engaged in some really weird projection about somehow feeling slighted about your loss because it wasn’t an abortion.

What would have happened had the pregnancy been left to end on its own?

OP is making a political statement shrouded in a story that is devoid of fact. She changed her story when questioned whether it "saved her life." I assume you're OP, by the way. Otherwise, it's kind of weird to be so defensive of an internet stranger.

Np. We're not just defending an internet stranger, we're defending the very basic truth that pregnancy complications are.... COMPLICATED and therefore the doctor is the person who should decide the best course of action for the individual.

Also, op didn't change her story. You asked a question and she answered it. You wanted to know what would happen without the abortion and she told you.

I hate the term "pro-life" - who is "anti-life?!" The term is such a misnomer, as everyone who supports legal and safe access to abortion rights, is also pro-life. What they (and I) are not, is pro-forced birth. I do not think all women should be forced to give birth against their will, and have children that they do not want.

I have cousins and friends who were adopted, and they are all pro-choice.

It's simply barbaric to force women to carry unwanted pregnancies against their will, against their mental, emotional, physical, and financial capacities. That is barbaric.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I delievered twins at 20 weeks and obviously they lived only a few hours, so I am truly sympathetic to your loss. I also endured non-stop and dangerous bleeding after a different delivery. So I understand a little bit what you went through. So please understand, I don't mean to be callous or dismissive. But, I am trying to understand how the abortion saved your life. It kind of sounds like the abortion endangered your life. What would have happened had the pregnancy been left to end on its own? Yes, it would have been difficult to know you were carrying a baby that would not survive, but it may very well have been a safer decision. Sometimes in life we suffer through very sad things. I have had my share. But I don't think it's accurate to say that abortion saved your life.

I mean I’m not a doctor but all my doctors told me I would be at higher risk of placental abruption if I waited. So maybe it hastened the inevitable but at least I was already in the OR when it happened.

What it hastened, by probabaly only a few hours, was delivery. In fact, my 20-week twins were born because of placental abruption and when that happens, so does spontaneous abortion--at 20 weeks, that means delivery of babies, non-viable babies. Trust me, I held mine. They are not a sack of cells as some people like to believe. I love that OP gets all kinds of sympathy for her choice to end the pregnancy, but mine ended without a choice and all I get is argument. I asked a thoughtful question, shared my opinion--which includes believing strongly in OP's and everyone else's right to abort their pregnancies--for any reason--but it's not good enough. Evidently, you're either with them on celebrating abortion or you're against them. Got it.

I’m not sure what your objection is. You are not OP’s doctor - OP’s doctor assessed that it was unsafe to continue the pregnancy. *that is what medical choice means.* that the doctor and patient decide. the fact that you delivered at 20 weeks after an abruption has nothing at all to do with OP’s situation.

You're not reading OP's posts very closely. If you had been, you would see what I know: the abortion was worse for her than had she waited. But fine, she made a choice. She was asked questions, changed her story. My familiarity with complications extends beyond my own loss and OP either misunderstood her situation or is changing her story to make this post work. According to the facts of her original story--before she started changing it, and even to an extend afterward--abortion did not save her life.

I am sorry for your loss, but you seem really invested in attacking the OP, who also lost a baby. Maybe you should bow out.

Actually, initially, I asked OP about some clarification, after expressing sympathy. The whole entire subject of this thread is "abortion saved my life." Once I asked, with great sympathy, whether in fact the abortion saved her life, or risked it (which the OP pretty much explains), I was attached by her and many other posters. If she is going to make a specious claim, with no medical evidence, she should anticipate some questions. Not invested in attaching anybody, but OP sounds like a selfish jerk at this point, honestly. She hasn't shown an ounce of sympathy for anybody on this thread, except the one other poster who chose abortion for medical reasons. I wonder what OP's opinion on those who choose it for lifestyle reasons is.

You need to see medical evidence? She told you her doctor recommended the abortion. Why would you, a random person on the internet, need to see the evidence?

Another question: why do you assume OP's situation would be exactly like yours?

These are honest questions I am curious about, and that you should examine before going on to judge more people.

Anonymous wrote:Thanks to all who shared their stories. I don't think that can be easy. Thanks, OP.

I am pro-life.

I do not have strong feelings about the Supreme Court decision other than that it seems, from a legal perspective, reasonable.

I know a good number of people (including myself and one sibling and an adopted niece) who would not be here if our mom had not chosen life. Our mom couldn't really afford us. Her relationship choices were not good. Our grandparents urged her to abort because they believed her struggles as a single mom raising mixed race kids would be too great.

I want to join forces with the pro-choice side because I live in the real world; I hear and reflect on the stories like yours OP and others. But can we find a way to do it in a way (and I think, OP, you did) that allows choice while not elevating abortion as THE choice. I don't speak for any kind of movement, but I do know that 20% of people who go to pregnancy crisis centers (the kind many abortion advocates hate) go on to choose abortion anyway.

I know many people here perhaps hate people like me, think I'm stupid and ignorant, think it's not worth even talking to someone like me. But I just wanted to offer my appreciation of your generosity in sharing difficulty stories and offer my own perspective.

The way to allow choice without elevating abortion as THE choice is to keep abortion legal, keeping necessary medical care available for people in these situations while improving the actual material conditions of motherhood in this country.

I don't think you sound stupid or ignorant, so I think you probably know this. There's room for pro-life people in the pro-choice tent - the work to be done on that common ground is in building supports for women in areas other than abortion policy, not prosecuting and outlawing.