Anonymous
05/17/2022 12:00
Subject: Re:What were Elizabeth Bennett’s prospects in the real world?
Anonymous wrote:Hilarious retelling of DCUM P&P!
There is actually a modern-day P&P written by Curtis Sittenfeld (author of Prep)
- Bennett family lives in Cincinnati, Darcy comes from Old Money in San Fran but he is also a surgeon
- Jane and Lizzie are employees in unremunerative professions, Mary is a perpetual student, Kitty and Lydia are party girls obsessed with their bodies
- Mr. Collins is a tech wiz kid
- I won’t spoil about Wickham in case someone decides to read it, but an interesting character for sure
I thought she nailed it. Mrs. Bennet spends all her time ordering tchochkes from Horchow and hanging out at the country club with the ladies and Mr. Bennet reads the WSJ while their "investments" dwindle. Mary has like four Master's degrees. Jane is a yoga instructor and Lizzie is a "Sex and the City" columnist. Darcy and Wickham were frat brothers, which is how Darcy knows that he is bad news.
Anonymous
05/17/2022 03:48
Subject: Re:What were Elizabeth Bennett’s prospects in the real world?
This is the best DCUM I’ve read in a very long time.
Darcy is the most mysterious character in the whole book. I think Jane Austen did that purposefully so that people could project their “dream guy” onto him, and it’s such a clever choice. He’s definitely dry and a bit calculating socially, but clear learns his lesson that life isn’t about perfection, and he’s going to have to accept his crazy in laws to get a prize like Lizzie.
Darcy in DCUM would be one of those really tall beautiful waspy guys who you sometimes see running in Bethesda. We probably heir to a family business and a surgeon. He’s got his life curated and because he lost his parents young he depends on his Aunt, who tells him where to donate his charity and he takes all the girls he’s ever been serious with to meet. Lady Deburgh lives in Chevy Chase and is a member at Columbia CC. Pemberley is a beautiful house in Nantucket and Brighton is Palm Beach.
Darcy is the most mysterious character in the whole book. I think Jane Austen did that purposefully so that people could project their “dream guy” onto him, and it’s such a clever choice. He’s definitely dry and a bit calculating socially, but clear learns his lesson that life isn’t about perfection, and he’s going to have to accept his crazy in laws to get a prize like Lizzie.
Darcy in DCUM would be one of those really tall beautiful waspy guys who you sometimes see running in Bethesda. We probably heir to a family business and a surgeon. He’s got his life curated and because he lost his parents young he depends on his Aunt, who tells him where to donate his charity and he takes all the girls he’s ever been serious with to meet. Lady Deburgh lives in Chevy Chase and is a member at Columbia CC. Pemberley is a beautiful house in Nantucket and Brighton is Palm Beach.
Anonymous
05/14/2022 09:34
Subject: What were Elizabeth Bennett’s prospects in the real world?
I’m surprised by all the people saying governess. Aren’t you familiar with the Brontes? Being a governess was awful.
Most women would rather be married to someone boring who they’re not attracted to then be a governess. Basically, as long as the husband wasn’t abusive, it was better than the other options.
Most women would rather be married to someone boring who they’re not attracted to then be a governess. Basically, as long as the husband wasn’t abusive, it was better than the other options.
Anonymous
05/13/2022 14:25
Subject: Re:What were Elizabeth Bennett’s prospects in the real world?
Why wouldn't Col. Fitzwilliam propose? Why was he waiting for her by himself? For what purpose?
The obvious reason was that he wanted to say good-bye. If she hadn't married Darcy, there was no reason to think Fitzwilliam would ever see her again. Yes, he would visit his aunt deBurgh and she might visit Mrs. Collins, but there was no reason to expect their visits to overlap.
However, I think another reason might be implied--pure speculation on my part. In the last one on one conversation he had with Lizzie, he tells her how Darcy has been instrumental in stopping a friend of his from an unfortunate marriage. When Lizzie asks the Colonel what the objection to the match was he says something about the young lady having some unsuitable relations. Lizzie guesses that Bingley is the young man, and her uncles Philips and Gardiner are the unsuitable relations.
This comes up later when Darcy proposes to Lizzie. In his rather uncharitable proposal he says he wants to marry her despite her lowly relatives. When she says she won't marry him and gives his interference in the match between Bingley and Jane as a reason why, Darcy says something like "Yes, I was kinder to him than to myself." He admits the interference and is proud of it. In the letter he later delivers to Lizzie, he explains that it isn't so much the social status of her relatives, but the utter impropriety of her mother and younger sister, and occasionally her father that made him think it was a bad match for Bingley..
In any event, when Fitzwilliam explains Darcy's objections to the match to Lizzie, without knowing it is her sister Jane and her family who are involved, he approves of Darcy's interference. Lizzie gets very upset and goes back to the Collins' cottage. As far as I can remember, Lizzie and the Colonel never have another one on one conversation.
He may simply not have wanted their acquaintance to end on that note. He knows he has upset her. Now, if the Colonel thought Darcy's objections to Jane's marriage to Bingley were valid, he certainly would have thought the same objections would be valid if applied to his own marriage to Lizzie.
Remember that Darcy writes to his aunt deBurgh to tell her of his engagement to Lizzie and for a while this causes an estrangement from his aunt. It doesn't really matter to Darcy; he is wealthy and has a home of his own. But Fitzwilliam was not independently wealthy and could not afford to antagonize his aunt, who in effect gave him free room and board when he wasn't off with the military.
Oh, and for everyone who says Gardiner is a barrister, he is a tradesman, who lived "within sight of his own factories" in London. And Uncle Philips is a solicitor, NOT a barrister and in England at the time there was a huge divide between a solicitor and barrister. I think it's Caroline Bingley who makes a crack about this --I think to Darcy--that his ancestors who were prominent judges were "in the same line of work" as Lizzie's uncle. She's being sarcastic. It would be kind of like saying the lawyers who advertise on TV for accident victims are "in the same line of work" as Supreme Court justices.
Anonymous
05/11/2022 13:13
Subject: Re:What were Elizabeth Bennett’s prospects in the real world?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Makes sense, but how would he pull that off? What's in it for his potential bride with a large dowry?Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Mrs. Bennett did comment there had been a fellow merchant friend of Mr. Gardiner who showed interest in Jane and she'd have been satisfied with that match.
No, it was a clerk of her Uncle Phillips, a solicitor.
Mrs. Bennett married up. Her father was a solicitor and her sister married one of his clerks, who then took over his practice. Mrs. Bennett, nee Gardiner, married a gentleman, i.e., someone who did not have to work for a living because he owned property. If Jane had married the clerk, she would have moved down in social standing and Mrs. Bennett would NOT have been satisfied with that.
When Lizzie tries to refute Lady Catherine deBurgh's statement that d'Arcy is out of her social class, she says something close to "He is a gentleman; I am a gentleman's daughter," deBurgh says something like "that is true as far as it goes ...but who are your mother, your uncles?"
And when d'Arcy sees Elizabeth when she and the Gardiners visit Pemberley, he asks to be introduced to them. Lizzie thinks it ironic that he is being asked to be introduced to people who he would not have deigned to talk to because of their class. She mentions that he is surprised by the connection. He had thought Mr. Gardiner was a gentleman.
Oh and there is no world in which Col. Fitzwilliam was going to propose to Lizzie.
Why wouldn't Col. Fitzwilliam propose? Why was he waiting for her by himself? For what purpose?
He couldn't afford to marry her. He needs a dowry to afford to remain in society
Why didn't he also inherit from de Boergh?
Younger son -- his older brother gets the title and the money, which is also why Col Fitzwilliam is in the army. But if he wants to live his adult life comfortably and like he lived his childhood and keep hanging out with all the people he knows he needs to marry someone with a lot more money than he (or Elizabeth) has.
Marriage to the son of an Earl - instant “cred” for someone with new money (aka money from trade) like Caroline Bingley, for example.
He's also an acceptable choice for a woman who who has money and simply prefers him. There are only so many titled men to go around. He's also an illness (or two or three depending on whether or not his older brother has kids) away from an earldom
And how many brother he has -- if he's brother three or four, his chances of inheriting are pretty slim. BUT his kids will grow up with their titled relations (and cousins marrying wasn't taboo), so it would be a great opportunity for social mobility for someone like Caroline Bingley or the daughter of a country Squire who had invested well and had a decent dowry for his daughter. Or a wealthy daughter of a peer who finds that his good manners and good looks make up for his lack of fortune.
Anonymous
05/11/2022 13:07
Subject: Re:What were Elizabeth Bennett’s prospects in the real world?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Makes sense, but how would he pull that off? What's in it for his potential bride with a large dowry?Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Mrs. Bennett did comment there had been a fellow merchant friend of Mr. Gardiner who showed interest in Jane and she'd have been satisfied with that match.
No, it was a clerk of her Uncle Phillips, a solicitor.
Mrs. Bennett married up. Her father was a solicitor and her sister married one of his clerks, who then took over his practice. Mrs. Bennett, nee Gardiner, married a gentleman, i.e., someone who did not have to work for a living because he owned property. If Jane had married the clerk, she would have moved down in social standing and Mrs. Bennett would NOT have been satisfied with that.
When Lizzie tries to refute Lady Catherine deBurgh's statement that d'Arcy is out of her social class, she says something close to "He is a gentleman; I am a gentleman's daughter," deBurgh says something like "that is true as far as it goes ...but who are your mother, your uncles?"
And when d'Arcy sees Elizabeth when she and the Gardiners visit Pemberley, he asks to be introduced to them. Lizzie thinks it ironic that he is being asked to be introduced to people who he would not have deigned to talk to because of their class. She mentions that he is surprised by the connection. He had thought Mr. Gardiner was a gentleman.
Oh and there is no world in which Col. Fitzwilliam was going to propose to Lizzie.
Why wouldn't Col. Fitzwilliam propose? Why was he waiting for her by himself? For what purpose?
He couldn't afford to marry her. He needs a dowry to afford to remain in society
Why didn't he also inherit from de Boergh?
Younger son -- his older brother gets the title and the money, which is also why Col Fitzwilliam is in the army. But if he wants to live his adult life comfortably and like he lived his childhood and keep hanging out with all the people he knows he needs to marry someone with a lot more money than he (or Elizabeth) has.
Marriage to the son of an Earl - instant “cred” for someone with new money (aka money from trade) like Caroline Bingley, for example.
He's also an acceptable choice for a woman who who has money and simply prefers him. There are only so many titled men to go around. He's also an illness (or two or three depending on whether or not his older brother has kids) away from an earldom
Anonymous
05/11/2022 13:04
Subject: Re:What were Elizabeth Bennett’s prospects in the real world?
Anonymous wrote:Makes sense, but how would he pull that off? What's in it for his potential bride with a large dowry?Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Mrs. Bennett did comment there had been a fellow merchant friend of Mr. Gardiner who showed interest in Jane and she'd have been satisfied with that match.
No, it was a clerk of her Uncle Phillips, a solicitor.
Mrs. Bennett married up. Her father was a solicitor and her sister married one of his clerks, who then took over his practice. Mrs. Bennett, nee Gardiner, married a gentleman, i.e., someone who did not have to work for a living because he owned property. If Jane had married the clerk, she would have moved down in social standing and Mrs. Bennett would NOT have been satisfied with that.
When Lizzie tries to refute Lady Catherine deBurgh's statement that d'Arcy is out of her social class, she says something close to "He is a gentleman; I am a gentleman's daughter," deBurgh says something like "that is true as far as it goes ...but who are your mother, your uncles?"
And when d'Arcy sees Elizabeth when she and the Gardiners visit Pemberley, he asks to be introduced to them. Lizzie thinks it ironic that he is being asked to be introduced to people who he would not have deigned to talk to because of their class. She mentions that he is surprised by the connection. He had thought Mr. Gardiner was a gentleman.
Oh and there is no world in which Col. Fitzwilliam was going to propose to Lizzie.
Why wouldn't Col. Fitzwilliam propose? Why was he waiting for her by himself? For what purpose?
He couldn't afford to marry her. He needs a dowry to afford to remain in society
Why didn't he also inherit from de Boergh?
Younger son -- his older brother gets the title and the money, which is also why Col Fitzwilliam is in the army. But if he wants to live his adult life comfortably and like he lived his childhood and keep hanging out with all the people he knows he needs to marry someone with a lot more money than he (or Elizabeth) has.
Marriage to the son of an Earl - instant “cred” for someone with new money (aka money from trade) like Caroline Bingley, for example.
Anonymous
05/11/2022 13:00
Subject: Re:What were Elizabeth Bennett’s prospects in the real world?
Makes sense, but how would he pull that off? What's in it for his potential bride with a large dowry?Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Mrs. Bennett did comment there had been a fellow merchant friend of Mr. Gardiner who showed interest in Jane and she'd have been satisfied with that match.
No, it was a clerk of her Uncle Phillips, a solicitor.
Mrs. Bennett married up. Her father was a solicitor and her sister married one of his clerks, who then took over his practice. Mrs. Bennett, nee Gardiner, married a gentleman, i.e., someone who did not have to work for a living because he owned property. If Jane had married the clerk, she would have moved down in social standing and Mrs. Bennett would NOT have been satisfied with that.
When Lizzie tries to refute Lady Catherine deBurgh's statement that d'Arcy is out of her social class, she says something close to "He is a gentleman; I am a gentleman's daughter," deBurgh says something like "that is true as far as it goes ...but who are your mother, your uncles?"
And when d'Arcy sees Elizabeth when she and the Gardiners visit Pemberley, he asks to be introduced to them. Lizzie thinks it ironic that he is being asked to be introduced to people who he would not have deigned to talk to because of their class. She mentions that he is surprised by the connection. He had thought Mr. Gardiner was a gentleman.
Oh and there is no world in which Col. Fitzwilliam was going to propose to Lizzie.
Why wouldn't Col. Fitzwilliam propose? Why was he waiting for her by himself? For what purpose?
He couldn't afford to marry her. He needs a dowry to afford to remain in society
Why didn't he also inherit from de Boergh?
Younger son -- his older brother gets the title and the money, which is also why Col Fitzwilliam is in the army. But if he wants to live his adult life comfortably and like he lived his childhood and keep hanging out with all the people he knows he needs to marry someone with a lot more money than he (or Elizabeth) has.
Anonymous
05/11/2022 11:15
Subject: Re:What were Elizabeth Bennett’s prospects in the real world?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Mrs. Bennett did comment there had been a fellow merchant friend of Mr. Gardiner who showed interest in Jane and she'd have been satisfied with that match.
No, it was a clerk of her Uncle Phillips, a solicitor.
Mrs. Bennett married up. Her father was a solicitor and her sister married one of his clerks, who then took over his practice. Mrs. Bennett, nee Gardiner, married a gentleman, i.e., someone who did not have to work for a living because he owned property. If Jane had married the clerk, she would have moved down in social standing and Mrs. Bennett would NOT have been satisfied with that.
When Lizzie tries to refute Lady Catherine deBurgh's statement that d'Arcy is out of her social class, she says something close to "He is a gentleman; I am a gentleman's daughter," deBurgh says something like "that is true as far as it goes ...but who are your mother, your uncles?"
And when d'Arcy sees Elizabeth when she and the Gardiners visit Pemberley, he asks to be introduced to them. Lizzie thinks it ironic that he is being asked to be introduced to people who he would not have deigned to talk to because of their class. She mentions that he is surprised by the connection. He had thought Mr. Gardiner was a gentleman.
Oh and there is no world in which Col. Fitzwilliam was going to propose to Lizzie.
Why wouldn't Col. Fitzwilliam propose? Why was he waiting for her by himself? For what purpose?
He couldn't afford to marry her. He needs a dowry to afford to remain in society
Why didn't he also inherit from de Boergh?
Younger son -- his older brother gets the title and the money, which is also why Col Fitzwilliam is in the army. But if he wants to live his adult life comfortably and like he lived his childhood and keep hanging out with all the people he knows he needs to marry someone with a lot more money than he (or Elizabeth) has.
Anonymous
05/11/2022 10:58
Subject: Re:What were Elizabeth Bennett’s prospects in the real world?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Mrs. Bennett did comment there had been a fellow merchant friend of Mr. Gardiner who showed interest in Jane and she'd have been satisfied with that match.
No, it was a clerk of her Uncle Phillips, a solicitor.
Mrs. Bennett married up. Her father was a solicitor and her sister married one of his clerks, who then took over his practice. Mrs. Bennett, nee Gardiner, married a gentleman, i.e., someone who did not have to work for a living because he owned property. If Jane had married the clerk, she would have moved down in social standing and Mrs. Bennett would NOT have been satisfied with that.
When Lizzie tries to refute Lady Catherine deBurgh's statement that d'Arcy is out of her social class, she says something close to "He is a gentleman; I am a gentleman's daughter," deBurgh says something like "that is true as far as it goes ...but who are your mother, your uncles?"
And when d'Arcy sees Elizabeth when she and the Gardiners visit Pemberley, he asks to be introduced to them. Lizzie thinks it ironic that he is being asked to be introduced to people who he would not have deigned to talk to because of their class. She mentions that he is surprised by the connection. He had thought Mr. Gardiner was a gentleman.
Oh and there is no world in which Col. Fitzwilliam was going to propose to Lizzie.
Why wouldn't Col. Fitzwilliam propose? Why was he waiting for her by himself? For what purpose?
He couldn't afford to marry her. He needs a dowry to afford to remain in society
Why didn't he also inherit from de Boergh?
Anonymous
05/11/2022 09:19
Subject: Re:What were Elizabeth Bennett’s prospects in the real world?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Mrs. Bennett did comment there had been a fellow merchant friend of Mr. Gardiner who showed interest in Jane and she'd have been satisfied with that match.
No, it was a clerk of her Uncle Phillips, a solicitor.
Mrs. Bennett married up. Her father was a solicitor and her sister married one of his clerks, who then took over his practice. Mrs. Bennett, nee Gardiner, married a gentleman, i.e., someone who did not have to work for a living because he owned property. If Jane had married the clerk, she would have moved down in social standing and Mrs. Bennett would NOT have been satisfied with that.
When Lizzie tries to refute Lady Catherine deBurgh's statement that d'Arcy is out of her social class, she says something close to "He is a gentleman; I am a gentleman's daughter," deBurgh says something like "that is true as far as it goes ...but who are your mother, your uncles?"
And when d'Arcy sees Elizabeth when she and the Gardiners visit Pemberley, he asks to be introduced to them. Lizzie thinks it ironic that he is being asked to be introduced to people who he would not have deigned to talk to because of their class. She mentions that he is surprised by the connection. He had thought Mr. Gardiner was a gentleman.
Oh and there is no world in which Col. Fitzwilliam was going to propose to Lizzie.
Why wouldn't Col. Fitzwilliam propose? Why was he waiting for her by himself? For what purpose?
He couldn't afford to marry her. He needs a dowry to afford to remain in society
Anonymous
05/11/2022 09:11
Subject: Re:What were Elizabeth Bennett’s prospects in the real world?
Anonymous wrote:Mrs. Bennett did comment there had been a fellow merchant friend of Mr. Gardiner who showed interest in Jane and she'd have been satisfied with that match.
No, it was a clerk of her Uncle Phillips, a solicitor.
Mrs. Bennett married up. Her father was a solicitor and her sister married one of his clerks, who then took over his practice. Mrs. Bennett, nee Gardiner, married a gentleman, i.e., someone who did not have to work for a living because he owned property. If Jane had married the clerk, she would have moved down in social standing and Mrs. Bennett would NOT have been satisfied with that.
When Lizzie tries to refute Lady Catherine deBurgh's statement that d'Arcy is out of her social class, she says something close to "He is a gentleman; I am a gentleman's daughter," deBurgh says something like "that is true as far as it goes ...but who are your mother, your uncles?"
And when d'Arcy sees Elizabeth when she and the Gardiners visit Pemberley, he asks to be introduced to them. Lizzie thinks it ironic that he is being asked to be introduced to people who he would not have deigned to talk to because of their class. She mentions that he is surprised by the connection. He had thought Mr. Gardiner was a gentleman.
Oh and there is no world in which Col. Fitzwilliam was going to propose to Lizzie.
Why wouldn't Col. Fitzwilliam propose? Why was he waiting for her by himself? For what purpose?
Anonymous
05/10/2022 16:20
Subject: What were Elizabeth Bennett’s prospects in the real world?
Today's Charlotte would be an ES public school teacher.
Anonymous
05/10/2022 15:19
Subject: Re:What were Elizabeth Bennett’s prospects in the real world?
Anonymous wrote:Mrs. Bennett did comment there had been a fellow merchant friend of Mr. Gardiner who showed interest in Jane and she'd have been satisfied with that match.
No, it was a clerk of her Uncle Phillips, a solicitor.
Mrs. Bennett married up. Her father was a solicitor and her sister married one of his clerks, who then took over his practice. Mrs. Bennett, nee Gardiner, married a gentleman, i.e., someone who did not have to work for a living because he owned property. If Jane had married the clerk, she would have moved down in social standing and Mrs. Bennett would NOT have been satisfied with that.
When Lizzie tries to refute Lady Catherine deBurgh's statement that d'Arcy is out of her social class, she says something close to "He is a gentleman; I am a gentleman's daughter," deBurgh says something like "that is true as far as it goes ...but who are your mother, your uncles?"
And when d'Arcy sees Elizabeth when she and the Gardiners visit Pemberley, he asks to be introduced to them. Lizzie thinks it ironic that he is being asked to be introduced to people who he would not have deigned to talk to because of their class. She mentions that he is surprised by the connection. He had thought Mr. Gardiner was a gentleman.
Oh and there is no world in which Col. Fitzwilliam was going to propose to Lizzie.
Agree. He knew that wouldn't work, and he knew that as well. I do think, though, he wanted to see her one last time. I wonder what became of him and how he and Lizzie felt when they met again at the wedding?
Anonymous
05/09/2022 22:33
Subject: What were Elizabeth Bennett’s prospects in the real world?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Okay everyone: talk to me about DCUM Austenland Mary.
I think Mr Bennett’s fiscal impropriety here is not having saved for college at all.
Mary works at an entry level position at a national nonprofit or think tank in DC and lives in her parents' in law suite in the basement. She attends trivia via meet up groups regularly and is willing to help with pick and drop offs for her nieces and nephews weekend games.
And as she ferries her nieces and nephews around, they are subjected to her terrible singing.