Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:if the teachers union runs DCPS, tell that to the union. And the chancellor.
There is that slice of parents saying DCPS isn't for me because my kid won't get challenged. But that's largely upper class parents not in or not satisfied with the JKLM/Deal/Wilson(JR) pyramid.
That's - how many? and it's mixed motivations for most of these parents, right? Because they don't want the demographics and the "teaching down to the dumb" that they are certain is happening at the demographically different schools in their neighborhood.
That has not been my experience. Setting aside that it ignores all of Latin and Basis that don't come from Ward 3, it is kind of offensive to black families to suggest that they (and by "they" I mean that's demographically what the rest of DCPS and HRCS are) are not seeking alternatives because their kids aren't being challenged. In point of fact, high performing black kids are MORE likely to peel off in my experience precisely because these same "good" ES and HRCS test scores tell us that the scores for black kids are markedly lower, and parents are concerned that merely "on grade level" will be good enough for their black student.
We were very happy at our HRCS but ultimately made a move in 5th because our kid was light years ahead of their grade but the school didn't test anything beyond a "4" (ahead by less than one grade level) and taught to the mean. That might have been ok, but not as the mean slid down year after year because high performing kids peeled off year after year. The ED at our school talks a good "equity" game but ignores the part of actually providing top flight education as a means to leveling the playing field. I refer to it in quiet as "Equity without Education".
In conversations with families at other DCPS ES and HRCS we found the same concerns and conversations were occurring. When we departed in 5th the school was demographically no different in 4th than it had been in 3rd or 2nd. In fact the only kids we lost to that point (other than the one who went overseas with State) were black kids who went private or in search of greener pastures. Unfortunately those kids were at the top of the class with our kid so we lost the rest of their cohort.
We are white and we left for more academic rigor and higher degree of accountability for disruptive behavior. So what's the narrative? Is this "white flight"? Does that term mean a white person leaving because there does not exist academic rigor, regardless of the demographic make-up of the school? Or does it mean a white person leaving to get away from black people? By arguing they are the same thing you are in fact making an argument that black=low performing or lowered expectations. That seems a more racist and insidious vision than allowing for the fact that all parents striving for excellent academic outcomes may and can leave for better options. It is lazy and entirely too easy to blame race and white flight. Doing so gives schools a pass for failing to provide top flight education for all enrolled students. We left. We don't suffer liberal guilt over it. If it makes DCUM or families that remain feel better to say it was racism that's fine by me. My kid is in an immeasurably improved environment at an incredibly rigorous school with a HS path. And the HRCS just lost one of the few remaining kids more than a grade level ahead. The school and community can look inward or outward at this point - no skin off my back. But continuing to just blame white flight is exacerbating the problem, lowering Tier and test scores and causing the demand for the school to plummet as against the last 6 years.
… where did you go then? Private? If not at a DCPS and no longer at your charter?
Basis. And, post-script, the HRCS from which we came has its smallest ever waitlist (at least against common lottery published data). I really hope the BoD starts paying attention before it is too late. Sadly, I fear the ED has insulated herself from criticism by cloaking herself in an "Equity" shield that none of the Board members are willing to question. The ship may go down on their watch, but at least no one will accuse them of being racist!
I know what school this is. My kids are also light years ahead academically and I have no expectation that the school will challenge my kids in core ELA and math. But I don't care, because we are providing that rigor outside of school, and frankly, doubt any DC public school (or G&T programs outside DC) would be on par. Further, our kids are both JHU-CTYers and we take advantage of those offerings as well.
Why do we stay? Our kids otherwise enjoy the school and (unlike other kids) suffer nothing from the lack of "rigor." At any rate, we plan to stay through 5th grade and then jump to private for middle school onward, as we aren't really interested in any of the charter options, even if we could bank on getting in.
FWIW, we are not white.
There are very few kids like this who aren't going to be challenged in any public school in the DMV area, and so your options are fundamentally different and nearly unique. There are many more kids who are at grade level or a year or two ahead and who don't have impossible-to-meet academic needs, they just have needs that aren't going to be met by their DCPS or charter options. I give my kids challenging work outside of school as well, but I think most parents if given the option would prefer for school to be teaching their kids.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:if the teachers union runs DCPS, tell that to the union. And the chancellor.
There is that slice of parents saying DCPS isn't for me because my kid won't get challenged. But that's largely upper class parents not in or not satisfied with the JKLM/Deal/Wilson(JR) pyramid.
That's - how many? and it's mixed motivations for most of these parents, right? Because they don't want the demographics and the "teaching down to the dumb" that they are certain is happening at the demographically different schools in their neighborhood.
That has not been my experience. Setting aside that it ignores all of Latin and Basis that don't come from Ward 3, it is kind of offensive to black families to suggest that they (and by "they" I mean that's demographically what the rest of DCPS and HRCS are) are not seeking alternatives because their kids aren't being challenged. In point of fact, high performing black kids are MORE likely to peel off in my experience precisely because these same "good" ES and HRCS test scores tell us that the scores for black kids are markedly lower, and parents are concerned that merely "on grade level" will be good enough for their black student.
We were very happy at our HRCS but ultimately made a move in 5th because our kid was light years ahead of their grade but the school didn't test anything beyond a "4" (ahead by less than one grade level) and taught to the mean. That might have been ok, but not as the mean slid down year after year because high performing kids peeled off year after year. The ED at our school talks a good "equity" game but ignores the part of actually providing top flight education as a means to leveling the playing field. I refer to it in quiet as "Equity without Education".
In conversations with families at other DCPS ES and HRCS we found the same concerns and conversations were occurring. When we departed in 5th the school was demographically no different in 4th than it had been in 3rd or 2nd. In fact the only kids we lost to that point (other than the one who went overseas with State) were black kids who went private or in search of greener pastures. Unfortunately those kids were at the top of the class with our kid so we lost the rest of their cohort.
We are white and we left for more academic rigor and higher degree of accountability for disruptive behavior. So what's the narrative? Is this "white flight"? Does that term mean a white person leaving because there does not exist academic rigor, regardless of the demographic make-up of the school? Or does it mean a white person leaving to get away from black people? By arguing they are the same thing you are in fact making an argument that black=low performing or lowered expectations. That seems a more racist and insidious vision than allowing for the fact that all parents striving for excellent academic outcomes may and can leave for better options. It is lazy and entirely too easy to blame race and white flight. Doing so gives schools a pass for failing to provide top flight education for all enrolled students. We left. We don't suffer liberal guilt over it. If it makes DCUM or families that remain feel better to say it was racism that's fine by me. My kid is in an immeasurably improved environment at an incredibly rigorous school with a HS path. And the HRCS just lost one of the few remaining kids more than a grade level ahead. The school and community can look inward or outward at this point - no skin off my back. But continuing to just blame white flight is exacerbating the problem, lowering Tier and test scores and causing the demand for the school to plummet as against the last 6 years.
… where did you go then? Private? If not at a DCPS and no longer at your charter?
Basis. And, post-script, the HRCS from which we came has its smallest ever waitlist (at least against common lottery published data). I really hope the BoD starts paying attention before it is too late. Sadly, I fear the ED has insulated herself from criticism by cloaking herself in an "Equity" shield that none of the Board members are willing to question. The ship may go down on their watch, but at least no one will accuse them of being racist!
I know what school this is. My kids are also light years ahead academically and I have no expectation that the school will challenge my kids in core ELA and math. But I don't care, because we are providing that rigor outside of school, and frankly, doubt any DC public school (or G&T programs outside DC) would be on par. Further, our kids are both JHU-CTYers and we take advantage of those offerings as well.
Why do we stay? Our kids otherwise enjoy the school and (unlike other kids) suffer nothing from the lack of "rigor." At any rate, we plan to stay through 5th grade and then jump to private for middle school onward, as we aren't really interested in any of the charter options, even if we could bank on getting in.
FWIW, we are not white.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Can we stay focused on MS and HS? Elementary is not a factor in this discussion and light years away 9 year olds also do not factor in
And this discussion is not about the UMC black families that can afford private and I do believe that all families worry about their kids and want what is best
We are talking about what options there are for MC and UMC white families that live in DC and want more diversity in their schools and what comfort level they have to be the only white kid in the school.
Most schools are predominantly black and many of those kids live out of bounds over the river and in MD which is a whole other story
We live under the mason Dixon line and it makes sense demographically but we still need to acknowledge that many of us who moved here to be in DC and experience this great city are met with a terrible school system overall and those of us that can not afford private or get a lottery spot are lost in what to do.
I don’t think the Washington natives are raciest and I think for the most part DC implants are not racists but there is an obvious cultural difference. Many of my DC (dear child) friends are black but I don’t know where they live and have never met their parents because they are not involved at school and it leave loss in their social life. great kids! just limited
Can we please stay focused on the UMC white people! I mean, jeez, after hundreds of years of it being all about everyone else when will white people with means finally get the attention they so desire?
-Signed a white person who is mortified by PP
It is okay for white people in DC to want to discuss these thorny school choice issues. Asking that the conversation stay focused on this issue is different than asking that ALL conversations about public school in DC focus on white people.
One of the reasons this problem exists is because it is taboo for white people in DC to openly discuss issues like discomfort with being the only white family in a class or grade. People will say it in hush tones and behind closed doors, but there's shame in it, like you are saying something deeply selfish or even racist. There are so many elephant in this room that don't get addressed because white people don't want to be seen as insensitive or supporting white supremacy. But it would be better to just get it out and address it head on. It's not as though staying quiet about it solves the problem -- it just means that people move schools and then lie about why they did it. "Oh this school is more convenient for our commute" or whatever. It would be better if we just talked about tit openly to figure out if there is a way to address it.
I have a white kid in a predominantly black DCPS and we love the school but the issue of her being the only white kid in many settings comes up a lot. We are fielding her questions and concerns the best we can but let me tell you, it's not easy because we have to both support her for the situation she is currently in (as a racial minority) while also thinking about teaching her about white supremacy, a concept that currently makes little to no sense to her because she spend a lot of her time in a majority-black environment where she sometimes feels like the odd kid out. It's threading a weird needle and there is very little guidance for this specific situation.
I talk about this stuff because I'm trying to figure it out. I have to talk to other white people about it because they are the only ones who are in the same situation and who might understand the competing priorities. Telling us to be quiet and stop centering ourselves in a conversation that we started about our experience is weird. We aren't hijacking a conversation among POC about school equity. We're trying to have a conversation about how we, as white people, can support school equity while also fulfilling our parental duty to support our own kids academically and socially.
If you don't have useful information or advice, you are not required to participate.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Can we stay focused on MS and HS? Elementary is not a factor in this discussion and light years away 9 year olds also do not factor in
And this discussion is not about the UMC black families that can afford private and I do believe that all families worry about their kids and want what is best
We are talking about what options there are for MC and UMC white families that live in DC and want more diversity in their schools and what comfort level they have to be the only white kid in the school.
Most schools are predominantly black and many of those kids live out of bounds over the river and in MD which is a whole other story
We live under the mason Dixon line and it makes sense demographically but we still need to acknowledge that many of us who moved here to be in DC and experience this great city are met with a terrible school system overall and those of us that can not afford private or get a lottery spot are lost in what to do.
I don’t think the Washington natives are raciest and I think for the most part DC implants are not racists but there is an obvious cultural difference. Many of my DC (dear child) friends are black but I don’t know where they live and have never met their parents because they are not involved at school and it leave loss in their social life. great kids! just limited
Can we please stay focused on the UMC white people! I mean, jeez, after hundreds of years of it being all about everyone else when will white people with means finally get the attention they so desire?
-Signed a white person who is mortified by PP
It is okay for white people in DC to want to discuss these thorny school choice issues. Asking that the conversation stay focused on this issue is different than asking that ALL conversations about public school in DC focus on white people.
One of the reasons this problem exists is because it is taboo for white people in DC to openly discuss issues like discomfort with being the only white family in a class or grade. People will say it in hush tones and behind closed doors, but there's shame in it, like you are saying something deeply selfish or even racist. There are so many elephant in this room that don't get addressed because white people don't want to be seen as insensitive or supporting white supremacy. But it would be better to just get it out and address it head on. It's not as though staying quiet about it solves the problem -- it just means that people move schools and then lie about why they did it. "Oh this school is more convenient for our commute" or whatever. It would be better if we just talked about tit openly to figure out if there is a way to address it.
I have a white kid in a predominantly black DCPS and we love the school but the issue of her being the only white kid in many settings comes up a lot. We are fielding her questions and concerns the best we can but let me tell you, it's not easy because we have to both support her for the situation she is currently in (as a racial minority) while also thinking about teaching her about white supremacy, a concept that currently makes little to no sense to her because she spend a lot of her time in a majority-black environment where she sometimes feels like the odd kid out. It's threading a weird needle and there is very little guidance for this specific situation.
I talk about this stuff because I'm trying to figure it out. I have to talk to other white people about it because they are the only ones who are in the same situation and who might understand the competing priorities. Telling us to be quiet and stop centering ourselves in a conversation that we started about our experience is weird. We aren't hijacking a conversation among POC about school equity. We're trying to have a conversation about how we, as white people, can support school equity while also fulfilling our parental duty to support our own kids academically and socially.
If you don't have useful information or advice, you are not required to participate.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Can we stay focused on MS and HS? Elementary is not a factor in this discussion and light years away 9 year olds also do not factor in
And this discussion is not about the UMC black families that can afford private and I do believe that all families worry about their kids and want what is best
We are talking about what options there are for MC and UMC white families that live in DC and want more diversity in their schools and what comfort level they have to be the only white kid in the school.
Most schools are predominantly black and many of those kids live out of bounds over the river and in MD which is a whole other story
We live under the mason Dixon line and it makes sense demographically but we still need to acknowledge that many of us who moved here to be in DC and experience this great city are met with a terrible school system overall and those of us that can not afford private or get a lottery spot are lost in what to do.
I don’t think the Washington natives are raciest and I think for the most part DC implants are not racists but there is an obvious cultural difference. Many of my DC (dear child) friends are black but I don’t know where they live and have never met their parents because they are not involved at school and it leave loss in their social life. great kids! just limited
Can we please stay focused on the UMC white people! I mean, jeez, after hundreds of years of it being all about everyone else when will white people with means finally get the attention they so desire?
-Signed a white person who is mortified by PP
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:If you want a charter, don’t lie to yourself about choosing it’s program when you are really choosing its demographics.
They are not separable. It's incredibly difficult to teach, and simultaneously teaching students who vary widely in their current academic achievement is darn near impossible. If there's a school with lots of poor kids who are way above grade level academically, I'd be happy to send my kids there. But we chose a charter school with high achievement and few poor kids, and I understand that the school's ability to have the program they do is made possible by the student demographics. Those demographics are much richer and whiter than DC as a whole, but still much more racially and economically diverse than many area suburbs.
Yeah -- the demographics have a material impact on the school atmosphere, environment, and outcomes. So it makes perfect sense for a family, of any race/SES, to consider demographics when selecting a school. For example, I'm black and would avoid sending my children to a school that is demograpically-dominated (+75%+) by poor black children and no middle-class blacks. And yes, that includes KIPP. That kind of situation just doesn't work out well for UMC black kids (especially boys) for a whole host of reasons that should be obvious, but probably aren't to some. Now, that sort of factoring may have different implications when practiced by white (or non-black) folks, but I'm not going to scrutinize the choices of other people when I'm essentially compelled to make the same or similar choices, even if I'm making those choices for different reasons, or out of different concerns.
Of course, that's the crux of systematic racism, isn't it? Doing what I believe to be best/necessary for my black children operates to further entrench racial inequality, at least to some degree.
But the problem comes when UMC white folks assume schools’ performance and environment based on those demographics. Not all, but many DCPS schools with <10% white kids are safe and nurturing environments, even in upper elementary. We’re at one and are having many few behavioral issues in mid elementary than friends in some of the charters. Not to say your black children would have the same experience as my kids, but my kids’ experience is relevant to many of the folks that aren’t even considering non-charters.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Can we stay focused on MS and HS? Elementary is not a factor in this discussion and light years away 9 year olds also do not factor in
And this discussion is not about the UMC black families that can afford private and I do believe that all families worry about their kids and want what is best
We are talking about what options there are for MC and UMC white families that live in DC and want more diversity in their schools and what comfort level they have to be the only white kid in the school.
Most schools are predominantly black and many of those kids live out of bounds over the river and in MD which is a whole other story
We live under the mason Dixon line and it makes sense demographically but we still need to acknowledge that many of us who moved here to be in DC and experience this great city are met with a terrible school system overall and those of us that can not afford private or get a lottery spot are lost in what to do.
I don’t think the Washington natives are raciest and I think for the most part DC implants are not racists but there is an obvious cultural difference. Many of my DC (dear child) friends are black but I don’t know where they live and have never met their parents because they are not involved at school and it leave loss in their social life. great kids! just limited
Can we please stay focused on the UMC white people! I mean, jeez, after hundreds of years of it being all about everyone else when will white people with means finally get the attention they so desire?
-Signed a white person who is mortified by PP
Anonymous wrote:Can we stay focused on MS and HS? Elementary is not a factor in this discussion and light years away 9 year olds also do not factor in
And this discussion is not about the UMC black families that can afford private and I do believe that all families worry about their kids and want what is best
We are talking about what options there are for MC and UMC white families that live in DC and want more diversity in their schools and what comfort level they have to be the only white kid in the school.
Most schools are predominantly black and many of those kids live out of bounds over the river and in MD which is a whole other story
We live under the mason Dixon line and it makes sense demographically but we still need to acknowledge that many of us who moved here to be in DC and experience this great city are met with a terrible school system overall and those of us that can not afford private or get a lottery spot are lost in what to do.
I don’t think the Washington natives are raciest and I think for the most part DC implants are not racists but there is an obvious cultural difference. Many of my DC (dear child) friends are black but I don’t know where they live and have never met their parents because they are not involved at school and it leave loss in their social life. great kids! just limited
Anonymous wrote:I say this as a committed white parent who wants kids in local DCPS: I don’t know what to do when my kid starts lapping peers academically. It’s happening now. And this is middle school. I don’t want to move my kid but wonder what we’re supposed to do.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:WTF how many poor white people live in DC?
How is it toxic? It is what it is
Yes. It is what it is: a toxic academic landscape. You simply don't have any near-term power to change or challenge that.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:WTF how many poor white people live in DC?
How is it toxic? It is what it is
Yes. It is what it is: a toxic academic landscape. You simply don't have any near-term power to change or challenge that.
Anonymous wrote:WTF how many poor white people live in DC?
How is it toxic? It is what it is