Anonymous
Post 04/27/2022 08:00     Subject: Down to the wire..help DD decide
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:DCUM loves to quote USNWR stats. Well look at this one:

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/undergraduate-teaching


Even here Michigan is top 20. #13 actually. So not “many schools” have better undergraduate quality than Michigan. Michigan has virtually no weakness as an academic institution. Yes even comparable to most of the Ivies.


Michigan is a good school but it is maybe way too large with its 40000+ student body and large class sizes (200+ in every classes) for some kids to handle.


You do realize that all schools have 200+ kids in Freshman classes and this starts thinning out as the classes progress, right? Or do you think all schools have a fixed quota of teachers and they just have to manage regardless of number of students?


Not my kid's CTCL.


What's a CTCL? Is that like a SLAC or NESCAC?


NP Colleges Theat Change Lives. They are (largely) small LACs that invest in students in unique ways to make this list. They tend to be in the mid rankings of LACs on US News. Some great alternatives to higher ranked schools.
Anonymous
Post 04/27/2022 05:46     Subject: Down to the wire..help DD decide
It seems silly to make any suggestions without knowing anything about this student other than where they were admitted and what they want to major in. What other factors are important?
Anonymous
Post 04/27/2022 02:44     Subject: Down to the wire..help DD decide
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:DCUM loves to quote USNWR stats. Well look at this one:

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/undergraduate-teaching


Even here Michigan is top 20. #13 actually. So not “many schools” have better undergraduate quality than Michigan. Michigan has virtually no weakness as an academic institution. Yes even comparable to most of the Ivies.


Michigan is a good school but it is maybe way too large with its 40000+ student body and large class sizes (200+ in every classes) for some kids to handle.


You do realize that all schools have 200+ kids in Freshman classes and this starts thinning out as the classes progress, right? Or do you think all schools have a fixed quota of teachers and they just have to manage regardless of number of students?

I went to Colgate - very similar to Lafayette - and exactly zero classes had 200+ kids in them. Even Bio 101 was less than that.
Anonymous
Post 04/27/2022 02:26     Subject: Down to the wire..help DD decide
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:DCUM loves to quote USNWR stats. Well look at this one:

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/undergraduate-teaching


Even here Michigan is top 20. #13 actually. So not “many schools” have better undergraduate quality than Michigan. Michigan has virtually no weakness as an academic institution. Yes even comparable to most of the Ivies.


How ironic that W&M is ranked several spots better than Michigan in the ranking you linked.


Yeah, but W&M is not also a world-class research university.


OP's daughter will be an undergraduate, not a professional researcher at this point.
+1





They are rated equally for undergraduate instruction. Go to Michigan which is a world class research university as well.


Equal? W&M is rated higher for undergraduate teaching in USNWR and professors are also rated higher for being approachable and helpful, interesting, passionate, concerned with student success, easy to understand, and putting effort into their classes in both Niche and Princeton Review. W&M also has no classes taught by Teaching Assistants as the primary instructor vs 11% at Michigan. W&M also has a better student to faculty ratio.
Anonymous
Post 04/26/2022 11:48     Subject: Down to the wire..help DD decide
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:DCUM loves to quote USNWR stats. Well look at this one:

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/undergraduate-teaching


Even here Michigan is top 20. #13 actually. So not “many schools” have better undergraduate quality than Michigan. Michigan has virtually no weakness as an academic institution. Yes even comparable to most of the Ivies.


How ironic that W&M is ranked several spots better than Michigan in the ranking you linked.


Yeah, but W&M is not also a world-class research university.


OP's daughter will be an undergraduate, not a professional researcher at this point.
+1





They are rated equally for undergraduate instruction. Go to Michigan which is a world class research university as well.
Anonymous
Post 04/26/2022 11:40     Subject: Down to the wire..help DD decide
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:DCUM loves to quote USNWR stats. Well look at this one:

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/undergraduate-teaching


Even here Michigan is top 20. #13 actually. So not “many schools” have better undergraduate quality than Michigan. Michigan has virtually no weakness as an academic institution. Yes even comparable to most of the Ivies.


How ironic that W&M is ranked several spots better than Michigan in the ranking you linked.


Yeah, but W&M is not also a world-class research university.


OP's daughter will be an undergraduate, not a professional researcher at this point.
+1



Anonymous
Post 04/26/2022 11:39     Subject: Down to the wire..help DD decide
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Considering U Michigan (OOS), W&M Monroe Scholars (OOS), Lafayette ($25,000/yr merit) and Northeastern ($20,00 merit/yr) for Poly Sci/Econ


If cost is not a factor, I'd say go with Michigan. Head and shoulders above the other 3 options.


OMG, this stuff never ends. A - U Mich is not head and shoulders above the other 3 options, and B - it's irrelevant -- these are not Ivies - your kid should go where they will be most lively to thrive!

It's no wonder why so many college kids are stressed, unhappy and ultimately transfer schools - they focus on the wrong things in their decision process!!! A happy and engaged kid will be more likely to excel in their academics, but more importantly will grow into the person who can excel in life!


Nationally, yes it is. It is a legit top 20 school with virtually every program in the top 10. Sure, if you want to be in the Mid-Atlantic then Lafayette or W&M are fine - both great schools. Michigan is a powerhouse and has the reputation and alumni network to back it up.


This. The PP you are responding to either has something against Michigan or does not know what she's talking about. I repeat, if cost is not a concern, go with Michigan. It IS head and shoulders above the other choices.

Everyone here is talking about W&M. While it's a great school, its nowhere close to Michigan on any standard. It's not even a top school in VA. A few SLAC (or is this one a LAC) afficionados seem to recommend Lafayette but.. c'mon. No one seems to like NEU.

OP. If you have the money, go the best school money can buy. In this case, it's Michigan.


If you are asserting that W&M isn't close to Michigan on any standard, you aren't either aren't being objective or don't recognize different attributes that schools offer. W&M is much smaller and more residential than Michigan and in this case, less expensive. It is rated slightly higher than Michigan in USNEWS undergraduate teaching ranking as discussed, but if you look further, you will see that W&M has a better student to faculty ratio, has fewer classes taught by teaching assistants (0% at W&M vs. 11% at Michigan) and it also rates better across the board in survey based results related to quality of teaching. If you look at survey data from actual students in Niche and Princeton Review W&M is higher than Michigan for professors being committed to student success, accessible, interesting, prepared, and understandable (good communicators). Princeton Review factors these into a higher academic rating for W&M (91 vs 86) than Michigan.

Michigan and W&M are both fine schools, but they differ. OP and DD should be looking at what is a fit based on what they are looking for and can afford.
Anonymous
Post 04/26/2022 10:54     Subject: Down to the wire..help DD decide
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:DCUM loves to quote USNWR stats. Well look at this one:

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/undergraduate-teaching


Even here Michigan is top 20. #13 actually. So not “many schools” have better undergraduate quality than Michigan. Michigan has virtually no weakness as an academic institution. Yes even comparable to most of the Ivies.


Michigan is a good school but it is maybe way too large with its 40000+ student body and large class sizes (200+ in every classes) for some kids to handle.


You do realize that all schools have 200+ kids in Freshman classes and this starts thinning out as the classes progress, right? Or do you think all schools have a fixed quota of teachers and they just have to manage regardless of number of students?


Not my kid's CTCL.


What's a CTCL? Is that like a SLAC or NESCAC?
Anonymous
Post 04/26/2022 10:49     Subject: Down to the wire..help DD decide
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:DCUM loves to quote USNWR stats. Well look at this one:

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/undergraduate-teaching


Even here Michigan is top 20. #13 actually. So not “many schools” have better undergraduate quality than Michigan. Michigan has virtually no weakness as an academic institution. Yes even comparable to most of the Ivies.


Michigan is a good school but it is maybe way too large with its 40000+ student body and large class sizes (200+ in every classes) for some kids to handle.


You do realize that all schools have 200+ kids in Freshman classes and this starts thinning out as the classes progress, right? Or do you think all schools have a fixed quota of teachers and they just have to manage regardless of number of students?


Not my kid's CTCL.
Anonymous
Post 04/26/2022 10:09     Subject: Down to the wire..help DD decide
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:DCUM loves to quote USNWR stats. Well look at this one:

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/undergraduate-teaching


Even here Michigan is top 20. #13 actually. So not “many schools” have better undergraduate quality than Michigan. Michigan has virtually no weakness as an academic institution. Yes even comparable to most of the Ivies.


Michigan is a good school but it is maybe way too large with its 40000+ student body and large class sizes (200+ in every classes) for some kids to handle.


You do realize that all schools have 200+ kids in Freshman classes and this starts thinning out as the classes progress, right? Or do you think all schools have a fixed quota of teachers and they just have to manage regardless of number of students?
Anonymous
Post 04/26/2022 10:09     Subject: Down to the wire..help DD decide
Take a gap year if not sure. Life is long, why hurry into adulthood!
Anonymous
Post 04/26/2022 10:07     Subject: Down to the wire..help DD decide
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Considering U Michigan (OOS), W&M Monroe Scholars (OOS), Lafayette ($25,000/yr merit) and Northeastern ($20,00 merit/yr) for Poly Sci/Econ


If cost is not a factor, I'd say go with Michigan. Head and shoulders above the other 3 options.


OMG, this stuff never ends. A - U Mich is not head and shoulders above the other 3 options, and B - it's irrelevant -- these are not Ivies - your kid should go where they will be most lively to thrive!

It's no wonder why so many college kids are stressed, unhappy and ultimately transfer schools - they focus on the wrong things in their decision process!!! A happy and engaged kid will be more likely to excel in their academics, but more importantly will grow into the person who can excel in life!


Nationally, yes it is. It is a legit top 20 school with virtually every program in the top 10. Sure, if you want to be in the Mid-Atlantic then Lafayette or W&M are fine - both great schools. Michigan is a powerhouse and has the reputation and alumni network to back it up.


This. The PP you are responding to either has something against Michigan or does not know what she's talking about. I repeat, if cost is not a concern, go with Michigan. It IS head and shoulders above the other choices.

Everyone here is talking about W&M. While it's a great school, its nowhere close to Michigan on any standard. It's not even a top school in VA. A few SLAC (or is this one a LAC) afficionados seem to recommend Lafayette but.. c'mon. No one seems to like NEU.

OP. If you have the money, go the best school money can buy. In this case, it's Michigan.
Anonymous
Post 04/26/2022 09:43     Subject: Down to the wire..help DD decide
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:DCUM loves to quote USNWR stats. Well look at this one:

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/undergraduate-teaching


Even here Michigan is top 20. #13 actually. So not “many schools” have better undergraduate quality than Michigan. Michigan has virtually no weakness as an academic institution. Yes even comparable to most of the Ivies.


Michigan is a good school but it is maybe way too large with its 40000+ student body and large class sizes (200+ in every classes) for some kids to handle.


There is no difference between an in person class with 200 students and online class with 1 million students. Might as well listen to a free online class from top schools like MIT


Every time I see one of these posts I think that person didn't go to a large university I went to University of Michigan and University of Maryland and this is simply not true.

Anybody who states that every class at Michigan has over 200 students is a moron. Stop posting and reposting nonsense!
Anonymous
Post 04/26/2022 09:19     Subject: Down to the wire..help DD decide
At this point, if you haven't decided, you just like the power of holding out and you are a drama king/queen. Pick something and move on. Your college choice is not as big of a deal as you think.
Anonymous
Post 04/26/2022 08:56     Subject: Down to the wire..help DD decide
I agree with others that it's down to Michigan vs WM depending on what sort of college experience your child wants. They are both strong for her area of interest but very different on most other dimensions.

As someone who went to college in Boston and LOVE it as a college town, I wouldn't recommend Northeastern for her academic interests (and I work in an area fed by PolSci/Econ majors). Mich/WM are FAR stronger.