Anonymous
04/23/2022 21:43
Subject: Does Baptism mean that you those who are not Baptized won't go to heaven?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I can't wrap my mind around this. If we commit to the Creed that "all those who believe in God shall not perish but have eternal life," what happens to those who are not Baptized? I guess that is the whole basis for proselytizing, to make sure everyone can go to heaven, right? But if I have problem believing that God is so vengeful and would really fault babies for their parents' decisions, then it seems hypocritical to baptize my child. I don't want to commit to something in a ceremony that I don't fully endorse.
Where does that leave me? Anyone else struggle with this?
My spouse is Catholic and insisted our kid be baptized. I went along with it because I see no real harm in it. The kid is an adult now and is not at all religious. Frankly, I don't see what difference it makes one way or the other.
It doesn't make any difference to you and it had no effect - or not the desired one - on your kid. But it meant something to your wife at the time. In her mind, the kid would've gone to heaven if it died while still a kid.
Again, the kid doesn't get into heaven. Something called the soul does. But you are right, maybe the point is for the living to have comfort that baptism gets their loved ones into heaven regardless of whether it does or not.
As I understand it, baptism is just symbolic anyway. Washing away the "sins." Like a helpless baby (who can't consent to this ritual) has any sins.
The Catholic Church at least certainly does not consider baptism symbolic. Original sin is quite serious in the Catholic Church.
If it is not symbolic, what are the implications of not being baptized?
For the Catholic Church, the implication is not going to heaven.
How is this not obvious? This is the core tenet of Catholicism, at least.
Anonymous
04/23/2022 21:39
Subject: Re:Does Baptism mean that you those who are not Baptized won't go to heaven?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Religious folks: is there a "heaven"? And do you get in only if you're saved? Yes or no? There's a lot of wiggling and waffling on this in the above posts. I'm just trying to understand.
Heaven is being with God for all eternity. You can go to Heaven if you want to. You don’t have to be perfect. You are already saved and given God’s grace by the sacrifice of His Son. You don’t have to do anything to earn it. (You can’t earn it, anyway; it’s too great a gift.) If you want to reject Heaven, then you have that choice. We all have free will.
This makes no sense. If everyone is automatically saved, then why would Christians want to save people? Where does salvation by faith or faith and works come in?
I think it’s kind of like how everyone who married a prince is a princess, but through “faith and works” you can be Meghan Markle or Kate Middleton.
So in this case does being a princess mean being in purgatory and “faith and works” means being in heaven?
I mean, I don’t understand how you can argue that Christianity—in any denomination—dictates that one can reject Jesus and have the same afterlife as someone who accepts him.
Do you think that Meghan has the same experience of being a princess as Kate?
Anonymous
04/23/2022 21:36
Subject: Does Baptism mean that you those who are not Baptized won't go to heaven?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I can't wrap my mind around this. If we commit to the Creed that "all those who believe in God shall not perish but have eternal life," what happens to those who are not Baptized? I guess that is the whole basis for proselytizing, to make sure everyone can go to heaven, right? But if I have problem believing that God is so vengeful and would really fault babies for their parents' decisions, then it seems hypocritical to baptize my child. I don't want to commit to something in a ceremony that I don't fully endorse.
Where does that leave me? Anyone else struggle with this?
My spouse is Catholic and insisted our kid be baptized. I went along with it because I see no real harm in it. The kid is an adult now and is not at all religious. Frankly, I don't see what difference it makes one way or the other.
It doesn't make any difference to you and it had no effect - or not the desired one - on your kid. But it meant something to your wife at the time. In her mind, the kid would've gone to heaven if it died while still a kid.
Again, the kid doesn't get into heaven. Something called the soul does. But you are right, maybe the point is for the living to have comfort that baptism gets their loved ones into heaven regardless of whether it does or not.
As I understand it, baptism is just symbolic anyway. Washing away the "sins." Like a helpless baby (who can't consent to this ritual) has any sins.
The Catholic Church at least certainly does not consider baptism symbolic. Original sin is quite serious in the Catholic Church.
If it is not symbolic, what are the implications of not being baptized?
Anonymous
04/23/2022 21:19
Subject: Does Baptism mean that you those who are not Baptized won't go to heaven?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I can't wrap my mind around this. If we commit to the Creed that "all those who believe in God shall not perish but have eternal life," what happens to those who are not Baptized? I guess that is the whole basis for proselytizing, to make sure everyone can go to heaven, right? But if I have problem believing that God is so vengeful and would really fault babies for their parents' decisions, then it seems hypocritical to baptize my child. I don't want to commit to something in a ceremony that I don't fully endorse.
Where does that leave me? Anyone else struggle with this?
My spouse is Catholic and insisted our kid be baptized. I went along with it because I see no real harm in it. The kid is an adult now and is not at all religious. Frankly, I don't see what difference it makes one way or the other.
It doesn't make any difference to you and it had no effect - or not the desired one - on your kid. But it meant something to your wife at the time. In her mind, the kid would've gone to heaven if it died while still a kid.
Again, the kid doesn't get into heaven. Something called the soul does. But you are right, maybe the point is for the living to have comfort that baptism gets their loved ones into heaven regardless of whether it does or not.
As I understand it, baptism is just symbolic anyway. Washing away the "sins." Like a helpless baby (who can't consent to this ritual) has any sins.
The Catholic Church at least certainly does not consider baptism symbolic. Original sin is quite serious in the Catholic Church.
Anonymous
04/23/2022 21:19
Subject: Re:Does Baptism mean that you those who are not Baptized won't go to heaven?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Religious folks: is there a "heaven"? And do you get in only if you're saved? Yes or no? There's a lot of wiggling and waffling on this in the above posts. I'm just trying to understand.
Heaven is being with God for all eternity. You can go to Heaven if you want to. You don’t have to be perfect. You are already saved and given God’s grace by the sacrifice of His Son. You don’t have to do anything to earn it. (You can’t earn it, anyway; it’s too great a gift.) If you want to reject Heaven, then you have that choice. We all have free will.
This makes no sense. If everyone is automatically saved, then why would Christians want to save people? Where does salvation by faith or faith and works come in?
I think it’s kind of like how everyone who married a prince is a princess, but through “faith and works” you can be Meghan Markle or Kate Middleton.
So in this case does being a princess mean being in purgatory and “faith and works” means being in heaven?
I mean, I don’t understand how you can argue that Christianity—in any denomination—dictates that one can reject Jesus and have the same afterlife as someone who accepts him.
Anonymous
04/23/2022 21:18
Subject: Does Baptism mean that you those who are not Baptized won't go to heaven?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I doubt it. No human is perfect. We just need to do the best we can do to follow the Golden Rule and God's commandments, and then we should be saved by faith alone and being repentant.
Doesn’t salvation by faith alone mean salvation by accepting Jesus as your Lord and Savior?
Not for me exactly. It's faith in God, and faith in forgiveness through his son Jesus.
Isn’t that the same thing as accepting Jesus?
Anonymous
04/23/2022 20:59
Subject: Re:Does Baptism mean that you those who are not Baptized won't go to heaven?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Religious folks: is there a "heaven"? And do you get in only if you're saved? Yes or no? There's a lot of wiggling and waffling on this in the above posts. I'm just trying to understand.
Heaven is being with God for all eternity. You can go to Heaven if you want to. You don’t have to be perfect. You are already saved and given God’s grace by the sacrifice of His Son. You don’t have to do anything to earn it. (You can’t earn it, anyway; it’s too great a gift.) If you want to reject Heaven, then you have that choice. We all have free will.
This makes no sense. If everyone is automatically saved, then why would Christians want to save people? Where does salvation by faith or faith and works come in?
I think it’s kind of like how everyone who married a prince is a princess, but through “faith and works” you can be Meghan Markle or Kate Middleton.
Anonymous
04/23/2022 20:00
Subject: Does Baptism mean that you those who are not Baptized won't go to heaven?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I can't wrap my mind around this. If we commit to the Creed that "all those who believe in God shall not perish but have eternal life," what happens to those who are not Baptized? I guess that is the whole basis for proselytizing, to make sure everyone can go to heaven, right? But if I have problem believing that God is so vengeful and would really fault babies for their parents' decisions, then it seems hypocritical to baptize my child. I don't want to commit to something in a ceremony that I don't fully endorse.
Where does that leave me? Anyone else struggle with this?
My spouse is Catholic and insisted our kid be baptized. I went along with it because I see no real harm in it. The kid is an adult now and is not at all religious. Frankly, I don't see what difference it makes one way or the other.
It doesn't make any difference to you and it had no effect - or not the desired one - on your kid. But it meant something to your wife at the time. In her mind, the kid would've gone to heaven if it died while still a kid.
Again, the kid doesn't get into heaven. Something called the soul does. But you are right, maybe the point is for the living to have comfort that baptism gets their loved ones into heaven regardless of whether it does or not.
As I understand it, baptism is just symbolic anyway. Washing away the "sins." Like a helpless baby (who can't consent to this ritual) has any sins.
Anonymous
04/23/2022 19:54
Subject: Does Baptism mean that you those who are not Baptized won't go to heaven?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I can't wrap my mind around this. If we commit to the Creed that "all those who believe in God shall not perish but have eternal life," what happens to those who are not Baptized? I guess that is the whole basis for proselytizing, to make sure everyone can go to heaven, right? But if I have problem believing that God is so vengeful and would really fault babies for their parents' decisions, then it seems hypocritical to baptize my child. I don't want to commit to something in a ceremony that I don't fully endorse.
Where does that leave me? Anyone else struggle with this?
My spouse is Catholic and insisted our kid be baptized. I went along with it because I see no real harm in it. The kid is an adult now and is not at all religious. Frankly, I don't see what difference it makes one way or the other.
It doesn't make any difference to you and it had no effect - or not the desired one - on your kid. But it meant something to your wife at the time. In her mind, the kid would've gone to heaven if it died while still a kid.
Again, the kid doesn't get into heaven. Something called the soul does. But you are right, maybe the point is for the living to have comfort that baptism gets their loved ones into heaven regardless of whether it does or not.
Anonymous
04/23/2022 19:51
Subject: Does Baptism mean that you those who are not Baptized won't go to heaven?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I can't wrap my mind around this. If we commit to the Creed that "all those who believe in God shall not perish but have eternal life," what happens to those who are not Baptized? I guess that is the whole basis for proselytizing, to make sure everyone can go to heaven, right? But if I have problem believing that God is so vengeful and would really fault babies for their parents' decisions, then it seems hypocritical to baptize my child. I don't want to commit to something in a ceremony that I don't fully endorse.
Where does that leave me? Anyone else struggle with this?
My spouse is Catholic and insisted our kid be baptized. I went along with it because I see no real harm in it. The kid is an adult now and is not at all religious. Frankly, I don't see what difference it makes one way or the other.
It doesn't make any difference to you and it had no effect - or not the desired one - on your kid. But it meant something to your wife at the time. In her mind, the kid would've gone to heaven if it died while still a kid.
Just interesting me that you assumed the gender of the spouse here, but were careful not to assume the gender of the kid.
Anonymous
04/23/2022 19:46
Subject: Does Baptism mean that you those who are not Baptized won't go to heaven?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I can't wrap my mind around this. If we commit to the Creed that "all those who believe in God shall not perish but have eternal life," what happens to those who are not Baptized? I guess that is the whole basis for proselytizing, to make sure everyone can go to heaven, right? But if I have problem believing that God is so vengeful and would really fault babies for their parents' decisions, then it seems hypocritical to baptize my child. I don't want to commit to something in a ceremony that I don't fully endorse.
Where does that leave me? Anyone else struggle with this?
My spouse is Catholic and insisted our kid be baptized. I went along with it because I see no real harm in it. The kid is an adult now and is not at all religious. Frankly, I don't see what difference it makes one way or the other.
It doesn't make any difference to you and it had no effect - or not the desired one - on your kid. But it meant something to your wife at the time. In her mind, the kid would've gone to heaven if it died while still a kid.
Anonymous
04/23/2022 19:09
Subject: Re:Does Baptism mean that you those who are not Baptized won't go to heaven?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Religious folks: is there a "heaven"? And do you get in only if you're saved? Yes or no? There's a lot of wiggling and waffling on this in the above posts. I'm just trying to understand.
Heaven is being with God for all eternity. You can go to Heaven if you want to. You don’t have to be perfect. You are already saved and given God’s grace by the sacrifice of His Son. You don’t have to do anything to earn it. (You can’t earn it, anyway; it’s too great a gift.) If you want to reject Heaven, then you have that choice. We all have free will.
Pp is describing protestant Christian heaven.
I’m Catholic, but it doesn’t surprise me that it’s a similar belief.
Anonymous
04/23/2022 18:53
Subject: Does Baptism mean that you those who are not Baptized won't go to heaven?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I doubt it. No human is perfect. We just need to do the best we can do to follow the Golden Rule and God's commandments, and then we should be saved by faith alone and being repentant.
Doesn’t salvation by faith alone mean salvation by accepting Jesus as your Lord and Savior?
Not for me exactly. It's faith in God, and faith in forgiveness through his son Jesus.
Anonymous
04/23/2022 18:48
Subject: Does Baptism mean that you those who are not Baptized won't go to heaven?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:It’s clear that anti-religion posters pose questions to make religion seem cruel, then flee and watch as people comment on their fake dilemma.
DP here. So let's say you are correct, for the sake of discussion.
Is that an illegitimate practice here? Is it possible OP feels religion is cruel, and wants to illustrate that in a religion forum? Is that not allowed?
Op has never returned.
Op is a troll trying to point out religion is cruel…and is factually incorrect.
That’s what gets me…at least know what you are trolling about. Op doesn’t even know what she’s talking about.
For example?
Anonymous
04/23/2022 18:45
Subject: Does Baptism mean that you those who are not Baptized won't go to heaven?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:It’s clear that anti-religion posters pose questions to make religion seem cruel, then flee and watch as people comment on their fake dilemma.
DP here. So let's say you are correct, for the sake of discussion.
Is that an illegitimate practice here? Is it possible OP feels religion is cruel, and wants to illustrate that in a religion forum? Is that not allowed?
Op has never returned.
Op is a troll trying to point out religion is cruel…and is factually incorrect.
That’s what gets me…at least know what you are trolling about. Op doesn’t even know what she’s talking about.
I don't get this take. OP asked questions. Questions that prompted some interesting insights and exchanges. So what is the problem?