Anonymous wrote:

Most men do care about how much money a woman makes, because most men are not high earners. The top 5% in the DC metro region make $250k+. For the 95% of men who make less than $250k, they need a spouse that makes a salary. At this income level, life is noticeably better when you have two solid incomes vs one income or an income that is low.

Wishful thinking on your part. I’d rather lust after a poorly paid wife than not lust after one whose salary brings us more stuff.

Why is it an either or? Most successful, educated men go for both. Total package. That’s what the UMC men I know look for.

Anonymous wrote:I think this is hard for many women to accept. But good sex is really the most important quality in a wife. A man will stay in a marriage if the sex is good, even if a lot other things are lacking. But once the sex is lacking, a man will be thinking about heading for the exit every day even if his wife is educated/successful and a nice person.

Eh. I think you underestimate how much men of a certain class still consider marriage an institution for breeding. They are looking for genes and someone who can function at work events and family events. Kind of like JFK and Jackie. Sexless marriage but she fit the bill.

A wife represents you in public, gestates and educates your children, manages the home environment so the holidays and hosting go smoothly. You definitely need someone educated and classy to fill these roles.

I am a lawyer, former biglaw, and all of my male lawyer colleagues and married to younger women with or without colleague degrees (lots of young Asian fetishes), so it is definitely a thing that some professional men want someone less educated in a more subservient position.

Anonymous wrote:How true is it that men would rather marry a hot woman with no career of her own than marry an average woman with a career that matched his?

It's rarely that black and white.

I don't think men care about a hard-charging career or a matching level of ambition. But they 100% care about education, social standing and class. Some careers also place people in interesting settings and men care about that, too.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a dad and have a group of dad friends like me who are professionals but make around $125 - $175K - so government, in-house attorneys for small business, manager, consultant, medical sales, etc.. We have wives who make more than we do (doctors and lawyers) and are generally attractive - but I wouldn't say smoking, since we are all in our 50s. We like to consider ourselves trophy husbands (despite our dad bods).

I knew my profession would not make me a fortune, so I was looking for a professional who could make what I make. Just a bonus that she was attractive and makes 3X what I make. I do the heavy lifting at the house with the kids and their activities and I could work from home when Covid hit and we had all the kids at home doing virtual school.

This is not the norm, though. In most couples, men still make more than the women. And men don't like it.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/11/20/study-men-get-more-stressed-when-their-wives-make-more-money.html

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/can-american-men-ever-be-happy-if-their-wives-earn-more-than-they-do-2019-04-29

We all seem happy, everyone still on their first wife. No regrets about the salary imbalance, it is what it is - no stress on my part since I fully fund my retirement.

In the past, I looked to change jobs, but that would mean making maybe $30-$50K more per year, but my evenings and weekends would no longer be free. I'm at 40 hours a week now.

We decided it was simply not worth the extra money since we have been debt-free for over a decade and college for the kids is already fully funded.

Anonymous wrote:I'm a dad and have a group of dad friends like me who are professionals but make around $125 - $175K - so government, in-house attorneys for small business, manager, consultant, medical sales, etc.. We have wives who make more than we do (doctors and lawyers) and are generally attractive - but I wouldn't say smoking, since we are all in our 50s. We like to consider ourselves trophy husbands (despite our dad bods).

I knew my profession would not make me a fortune, so I was looking for a professional who could make what I make. Just a bonus that she was attractive and makes 3X what I make. I do the heavy lifting at the house with the kids and their activities and I could work from home when Covid hit and we had all the kids at home doing virtual school.

This is not the norm, though. In most couples, men still make more than the women. And men don't like it.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/11/20/study-men-get-more-stressed-when-their-wives-make-more-money.html

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/can-american-men-ever-be-happy-if-their-wives-earn-more-than-they-do-2019-04-29

Statistically (you should never crowdsource from DCUM the insecure men are like ants) high achieving men have high achieving spouses. It’s called assortive mating. It is increasing in the past decade and it’s extremely unlikely to find a lawyer married to a waitress, no matter how attractive. Especially true in first marriages.

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Anonymous wrote:In my circle women’s college and profession matters but once married, it’s usually her decision if she wants to work or stay home after kids, men are okay with both choices. Men with high IQ tend to enjoy beauty but they crave intelligence.

Same.

This is what I've noticed. Career accomplishments optional, education not.

All things said "education"/ "intelligence"/ "success" is shorthand for other capacities and character traits that may come in handy when building a life with someone.

No. Educated men generally marry educated women because they meet them in school or in the same social circles. But education is not a must-have criteria. Most men would trade in an educated woman whose looks had declined for a hot, kind, great-in-bed woman. In fact, high status men often do just that after divorcing their first wife.

I guess they don't care if they have dumb children. Mother's education/intelligence greatly impacts the child's intelligence.

Umm they do care. They usually have children with wife #1 and divorce around 50 when his wife has already done all the hard work of parenting and right as he’s reaching his career peak. Wife #2 is for him to feel like a big shot with a younger woman and convince himself he’s still young.

Okay, the one couple I know that fits this description - 49yo married 33yo, and yes, she's hot, but she was also working in big law when they got married and a T20 law school graduate. She's barely working part time now and they have young kids and they seem as happy as any other family. I don't know how important earnings are, but pretty much all of the guys in my circle married women who are intellectually compatible, even the aforementioned outlier who remarried after his first marriage failed.

ok, but clearly she's not dumb. That's the point. A mother's intelligence impacts the child's intelligence.

Yes, I'm the PP that wrote about the age gap couple. I was agreeing with you. They fit the cliché in that he's wealthy and she's younger and pretty, but she was a college athlete, then t20 law school, then big law, and he brings these things up on conversation quite a bit, so clearly it mattered to him.

I'm a dad and have a group of dad friends like me who are professionals but make around $125 - $175K - so government, in-house attorneys for small business, manager, consultant, medical sales, etc.. We have wives who make more than we do (doctors and lawyers) and are generally attractive - but I wouldn't say smoking, since we are all in our 50s. We like to consider ourselves trophy husbands (despite our dad bods).

I knew my profession would not make me a fortune, so I was looking for a professional who could make what I make. Just a bonus that she was attractive and makes 3X what I make. I do the heavy lifting at the house with the kids and their activities and I could work from home when Covid hit and we had all the kids at home doing virtual school.

Most men do care about how much money a woman makes, because most men are not high earners. The top 5% in the DC metro region make $250k+. For the 95% of men who make less than $250k, they need a spouse that makes a salary. At this income level, life is noticeably better when you have two solid incomes vs one income or an income that is low.

Wishful thinking on your part. I’d rather lust after a poorly paid wife than not lust after one whose salary brings us more stuff.

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Anonymous wrote:In my circle women’s college and profession matters but once married, it’s usually her decision if she wants to work or stay home after kids, men are okay with both choices. Men with high IQ tend to enjoy beauty but they crave intelligence.

Same.

This is what I've noticed. Career accomplishments optional, education not.

All things said "education"/ "intelligence"/ "success" is shorthand for other capacities and character traits that may come in handy when building a life with someone.

No. Educated men generally marry educated women because they meet them in school or in the same social circles. But education is not a must-have criteria. Most men would trade in an educated woman whose looks had declined for a hot, kind, great-in-bed woman. In fact, high status men often do just that after divorcing their first wife.

I guess they don't care if they have dumb children. Mother's education/intelligence greatly impacts the child's intelligence.

Umm they do care. They usually have children with wife #1 and divorce around 50 when his wife has already done all the hard work of parenting and right as he’s reaching his career peak. Wife #2 is for him to feel like a big shot with a younger woman and convince himself he’s still young.

Okay, the one couple I know that fits this description - 49yo married 33yo, and yes, she's hot, but she was also working in big law when they got married and a T20 law school graduate. She's barely working part time now and they have young kids and they seem as happy as any other family. I don't know how important earnings are, but pretty much all of the guys in my circle married women who are intellectually compatible, even the aforementioned outlier who remarried after his first marriage failed.

ok, but clearly she's not dumb. That's the point. A mother's intelligence impacts the child's intelligence.

Anonymous wrote:I think this is hard for many women to accept. But good sex is really the most important quality in a wife. A man will stay in a marriage if the sex is good, even if a lot other things are lacking. But once the sex is lacking, a man will be thinking about heading for the exit every day even if his wife is educated/successful and a nice person.

exactly... that's what I said up thread... that sex is more important to a man than his children.

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Anonymous wrote:In my circle women’s college and profession matters but once married, it’s usually her decision if she wants to work or stay home after kids, men are okay with both choices. Men with high IQ tend to enjoy beauty but they crave intelligence.

Same.

This is what I've noticed. Career accomplishments optional, education not.

All things said "education"/ "intelligence"/ "success" is shorthand for other capacities and character traits that may come in handy when building a life with someone.

No. Educated men generally marry educated women because they meet them in school or in the same social circles. But education is not a must-have criteria. Most men would trade in an educated woman whose looks had declined for a hot, kind, great-in-bed woman. In fact, high status men often do just that after divorcing their first wife.

I guess they don't care if they have dumb children. Mother's education/intelligence greatly impacts the child's intelligence.

Umm they do care. They usually have children with wife #1 and divorce around 50 when his wife has already done all the hard work of parenting and right as he’s reaching his career peak. Wife #2 is for him to feel like a big shot with a younger woman and convince himself he’s still young.

Okay, the one couple I know that fits this description - 49yo married 33yo, and yes, she's hot, but she was also working in big law when they got married and a T20 law school graduate. She's barely working part time now and they have young kids and they seem as happy as any other family. I don't know how important earnings are, but pretty much all of the guys in my circle married women who are intellectually compatible, even the aforementioned outlier who remarried after his first marriage failed.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To marry a woman who is both hot and high earning, usually the man has to be both hot and high earning. What about men who are high earning but not hot? What kinds of women do those men go for? Think a guy who is 5’6 balding in his early 30’s and makes 500k+

See: other thread about Russian mail order brides. 😀

That’s obnoxious. From my experience, those guys go for similarly attractive women they met in law school or college. Just like the attractive guys. There is pressure to have an educated spouse in big law and other high earning careers. It looks really bad to have a trashy girlfriend. The only guys who can get away with mail order brides are already mid career men who are non the middle of a midlife crisis. The 30 year old young associate can’t be that reckless — even if he wanted to (most don’t.)

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Anonymous wrote:In my circle women’s college and profession matters but once married, it’s usually her decision if she wants to work or stay home after kids, men are okay with both choices. Men with high IQ tend to enjoy beauty but they crave intelligence.

Same.

This is what I've noticed. Career accomplishments optional, education not.

All things said "education"/ "intelligence"/ "success" is shorthand for other capacities and character traits that may come in handy when building a life with someone.

No. Educated men generally marry educated women because they meet them in school or in the same social circles. But education is not a must-have criteria. Most men would trade in an educated woman whose looks had declined for a hot, kind, great-in-bed woman. In fact, high status men often do just that after divorcing their first wife.

I guess they don't care if they have dumb children. Mother's education/intelligence greatly impacts the child's intelligence.

Except most "high status" men don't divorce. I also think the stereotype of the partner running away with his secretary is somewhat dying because of a sea change of gender roles. Divorces peaked in the late 1970s and early 1980s because you had a clash of expectations. Certainly, women worked before then, but it was much seen as a long-term, fulfilling career. By the 70s and 80s, men tended to view a wife's career as something of a side hobby. Great for them to have a career unless it impacted the smooth operation of the home. If you are a professional man who is 20 or 30 now and you want to get married, your expectations are going to be different. If you just want sex, it's never been easier to find a willing partner. Of the men that I have known who have been with someone that much more attractive but who they didn't particularly respect, it never works out, even if they sex was really good. Plenty of people deciding to have children or a buy a home without being married. Both marriage and divorce is down, but divorce is particularly down among what PP would call the "high status" men.

I can't speak for most men, but for myself and the group of men that I know enough to have some sense of their answer here, I don't think it's accurate that many are looking to swap for a second wife. Of course, it might also become more important at a certain age where drive levels depart more frequently.