Anonymous wrote:Woman here. I always insisted on splitting the check, but I have found I’m an outlier. Sadly, even those who offer (I had to truly insist) will still expect you to pay. And lots of women will never go out with you again if you don’t.

I think it’s crappy, but it’s the reality.

I am a 50+ yrs woman and I have always paid for myself when I was single.

Here is what I taught my now 20-something single DD -
- Always pay for your share on a date. Allowing any man to pay for your meal is a privilege you should bestow only to a person who has earned it. Also, it cheapens you to have a person you are not interested in to pay for you in any way.
- Takes your own car/arrange for your own transportation.
- First two dates should be low-key (grab a coffee, share a pizza), in public places in the daytime, for some casual and fun activity (concerts, plays, games) etc.
- There is no rule that says "sex on third date". Sex happens only when both people are ready or it is ok for it to not happen for a long time. Many men think that paying for a date entitles them to some sexual favors from a woman.
- Your parents can very comfortably afford to fund your meals, social life and normal student lifestyle. So use that privilege and keep yourself and your self-esteem protected. Do not be beholden to anyone and do not take that mental burden on yourself.

DD remains our responsibility until she is herself financially emancipated and settled in a good career.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a married woman, but when I was dating, I expected any man who asked me on a date to pay for the first date. I did not offer to split, but thanked them sincerely for dinner (or whatever). Maybe this was off-putting for some guys, and if there was ever a guy who didn't ask me on a second date for that reason, that is okay - we weren't a match.

What about when you asked the guy out?

PP here. The only time I ever asked a man out was when it would have been borderline-unprofessional or inappropriate for him to initiate (we had a power-differential relationship that was ending when I asked him out). I had suggested the particular restaurant and was fully prepared and expecting to pick up the whole check (because I believe the inviter pays) but he insisted on covering that and the next few dates we went on.

… we’ve been married 15 years.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

When you are dating, as a woman, you are told you will kiss a lot of frogs to find the right guy. You will hopefully also have been told by your family to know your worth and know what you want in a partner. I do not— and did not— want a partner who saves money on another person. That’s something that’s hard to know at the dating stage! Later in life you see it when a man is driving a new car every year while his wife has an old minivan, or you see an exhausted new mom whose husband objects to the cost of a baby nurse, or a man flying in business class while his wife wrangles the kids on coach. Why waste more than one date on a person like that when the universe has other people in it?

I'm a woman. This "logic" is crazy, and you must hang out with or know some really strange people. Your examples are just beyond ridiculous and do not prove any kind of point. Seriously - I do not know one couple where either of them gets a new car every year, let alone just the man. And families where only the man flies business? I fly all the time and have never seen this.

I know several couples where the man gets a new car every year or every other year. In the case of a couple I know that is currently divorcing the woman has had the same car for six years even though it has been in an accident— her husband drives a new Audi.

I also fly business class for work: I have seen more than a dozen instances of a man who was seated near me in business reunites at the end of the jetway with a wife and kids who were clearly not in business with him.

How would you suggest that people screen for generosity while dating? I’m all about hearing what is more up to date for when my children start dating! I can’t think of great ways that don’t involve a lot of wasted time.

According to my flight attendant friend, in such cases, usually men is either going on company’s dime or has a health issue needing space to raise legs. It’s not possible to buy upgraded tickets for whole family. She said often men who get free upgrade because of frequent flying, let their wife or child to use it.

Maybe! That’s a comforting idea

Anonymous wrote:I have been married for 15 years and 43. 20 years ago, guys always paid for dates.

I can remember one time when the guy had me pay half. One guy made me pay the tip. I think they were the only ones. I think I at least offered to pay. Often it wasn’t fully clear if it was a date or not. I had lots of male friends.

I have 2 sons now and I would probably be annoyed if a girl expected my sons to always pay for them.

But yes, men are expected to pay for a first date. I suggest coffee for first meeting.

I will tell my son to only ask a girl out if he is happy to pay (good screening for them too!) and I will also suggest that he do casual meetups initially like coffee, sandwiches, ice cream, etc. so he never turns into one of these embittered men who feels like they were cheated. I will also teach both my children that buying a meal has nothing whatsoever to do with having sex.

Why generosity is a required trait for men but not for women? It’s not like women can’t be stingy or have problem sharing?

I think it's so rude to ask somebody, anybody - friend, family member, colleague, somebody you're interested in dating - out and then request they pay half.

I never ask somebody out without expecting to pay. Usually we wind up splitting down the middle (without counting carefully, I typically wind up paying more than my "fair share" because I don't drink), but if you want to show somebody a good time, don't kill it by making an issue of money.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

When you are dating, as a woman, you are told you will kiss a lot of frogs to find the right guy. You will hopefully also have been told by your family to know your worth and know what you want in a partner. I do not— and did not— want a partner who saves money on another person. That’s something that’s hard to know at the dating stage! Later in life you see it when a man is driving a new car every year while his wife has an old minivan, or you see an exhausted new mom whose husband objects to the cost of a baby nurse, or a man flying in business class while his wife wrangles the kids on coach. Why waste more than one date on a person like that when the universe has other people in it?

I'm a woman. This "logic" is crazy, and you must hang out with or know some really strange people. Your examples are just beyond ridiculous and do not prove any kind of point. Seriously - I do not know one couple where either of them gets a new car every year, let alone just the man. And families where only the man flies business? I fly all the time and have never seen this.

I know several couples where the man gets a new car every year or every other year. In the case of a couple I know that is currently divorcing the woman has had the same car for six years even though it has been in an accident— her husband drives a new Audi.

I also fly business class for work: I have seen more than a dozen instances of a man who was seated near me in business reunites at the end of the jetway with a wife and kids who were clearly not in business with him.

How would you suggest that people screen for generosity while dating? I’m all about hearing what is more up to date for when my children start dating! I can’t think of great ways that don’t involve a lot of wasted time.

According to my flight attendant friend, in such cases, usually men is either going on company’s dime or has a health issue needing space to raise legs. It’s not possible to buy upgraded tickets for whole family. She said often men who get free upgrade because of frequent flying, let their wife or child to use it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

When you are dating, as a woman, you are told you will kiss a lot of frogs to find the right guy. You will hopefully also have been told by your family to know your worth and know what you want in a partner. I do not— and did not— want a partner who saves money on another person. That’s something that’s hard to know at the dating stage! Later in life you see it when a man is driving a new car every year while his wife has an old minivan, or you see an exhausted new mom whose husband objects to the cost of a baby nurse, or a man flying in business class while his wife wrangles the kids on coach. Why waste more than one date on a person like that when the universe has other people in it?

I'm a woman. This "logic" is crazy, and you must hang out with or know some really strange people. Your examples are just beyond ridiculous and do not prove any kind of point. Seriously - I do not know one couple where either of them gets a new car every year, let alone just the man. And families where only the man flies business? I fly all the time and have never seen this.

I know several couples where the man gets a new car every year or every other year. In the case of a couple I know that is currently divorcing the woman has had the same car for six years even though it has been in an accident— her husband drives a new Audi.

I also fly business class for work: I have seen more than a dozen instances of a man who was seated near me in business reunites at the end of the jetway with a wife and kids who were clearly not in business with him.

How would you suggest that people screen for generosity while dating? I’m all about hearing what is more up to date for when my children start dating! I can’t think of great ways that don’t involve a lot of wasted time.

I disagree that first date check-splitting psychology is an all-encompassing test for generosity. It's fine that your view is your own. I have the patience and a deep enough pocket to suss out generosity in more ways.

I have been married for 15 years and 43. 20 years ago, guys always paid for dates.

I can remember one time when the guy had me pay half. One guy made me pay the tip. I think they were the only ones. I think I at least offered to pay. Often it wasn’t fully clear if it was a date or not. I had lots of male friends.

I have 2 sons now and I would probably be annoyed if a girl expected my sons to always pay for them.

But yes, men are expected to pay for a first date. I suggest coffee for first meeting.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you want to an equal and earn respect, pay your way. Don’t go out accepting free food from strangers.

Don’t invite women to dates you can’t afford?

It doesn’t matter who is asking, a date is for two people to get to know each other. If you are not interested don’t go. If you can’t afford the place, suggest something affordable.

When you ask someone to your home for dinner, do you expect them to pay you? It’s basic good manners that when you invite someone you are the host. When women invite you on dates have they offered to pay?

It’s a completely different thing. If someone wants to host you, I’ll invite you to my home. A date is random people casually meeting for good time, picking up their own tabs and sharing the cost. By the way, if you are going to someone’s house, you would take something for the host, not show up empty handed.

Anonymous wrote:

When you are dating, as a woman, you are told you will kiss a lot of frogs to find the right guy. You will hopefully also have been told by your family to know your worth and know what you want in a partner. I do not— and did not— want a partner who saves money on another person. That’s something that’s hard to know at the dating stage! Later in life you see it when a man is driving a new car every year while his wife has an old minivan, or you see an exhausted new mom whose husband objects to the cost of a baby nurse, or a man flying in business class while his wife wrangles the kids on coach. Why waste more than one date on a person like that when the universe has other people in it?

I'm a woman. This "logic" is crazy, and you must hang out with or know some really strange people. Your examples are just beyond ridiculous and do not prove any kind of point. Seriously - I do not know one couple where either of them gets a new car every year, let alone just the man. And families where only the man flies business? I fly all the time and have never seen this.

I know several couples where the man gets a new car every year or every other year. In the case of a couple I know that is currently divorcing the woman has had the same car for six years even though it has been in an accident— her husband drives a new Audi.

I also fly business class for work: I have seen more than a dozen instances of a man who was seated near me in business reunites at the end of the jetway with a wife and kids who were clearly not in business with him.

How would you suggest that people screen for generosity while dating? I’m all about hearing what is more up to date for when my children start dating! I can’t think of great ways that don’t involve a lot of wasted time.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Woman here. I don’t pay for dates at all. If I’ve been in committed serious relationship with a man I might pay for a surprise or holiday.

This. I don't pay for dates. I also don't ask men out
I may depending on the nature of our relationship reciprocate in other ways such as surprising him with his favorite cookies.

This. It would be a huge turn off if you asked for separate checks. I wouldn’t object but also wouldn’t see you again. If you are a man and are asking women out, you pay.

That helps because free loading is a bigger turn off than sharing.

Anonymous wrote:I am a woman in my 50s. I always offer to split. Most men insist on paying. One guy suggested we split before I could even offer--I thought he wasn't interested but he is just frugal/cheapskate. i am still dating him because he has other qualities I like.

A friend who is 30 went on a date and the total bar bill was $14 and he asked her to split it with him. The bartender definitely gave him the side-eye! LOL

Now that I think about it, I guess I asked him out--said I was going to see a friend play in a bar in his neighborhood and asked if he wanted to meet up for a drink first.

I am a widow--my LH never paid for my dates. He was generous, but was a big feminist--think women's studies at someplace like Oberlin. LOL

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you want to an equal and earn respect, pay your way. Don’t go out accepting free food from strangers.

Don’t invite women to dates you can’t afford?

It doesn’t matter who is asking, a date is for two people to get to know each other. If you are not interested don’t go. If you can’t afford the place, suggest something affordable.

When you ask someone to your home for dinner, do you expect them to pay you? It’s basic good manners that when you invite someone you are the host. When women invite you on dates have they offered to pay?

When you are dating, as a woman, you are told you will kiss a lot of frogs to find the right guy. You will hopefully also have been told by your family to know your worth and know what you want in a partner. I do not— and did not— want a partner who saves money on another person. That’s something that’s hard to know at the dating stage! Later in life you see it when a man is driving a new car every year while his wife has an old minivan, or you see an exhausted new mom whose husband objects to the cost of a baby nurse, or a man flying in business class while his wife wrangles the kids on coach. Why waste more than one date on a person like that when the universe has other people in it?

I'm a woman. This "logic" is crazy, and you must hang out with or know some really strange people. Your examples are just beyond ridiculous and do not prove any kind of point. Seriously - I do not know one couple where either of them gets a new car every year, let alone just the man. And families where only the man flies business? I fly all the time and have never seen this.