Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Deliberate poking and button-pushing has consequences. Being deliberately rude to someone for absolutely no reason will yield bad results. Don't poke the bear in the zoo.

Interesting. So you want to teach your daughters that if they say something critical it’s okay for their father/husband/etc to scream obscenities in their faces? And it will be their fault? Wow. No wonder so many women end up in abusive relationships. They shouldn’t have poked the bear amirite?

You’re being deliberately obtuse.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m the PP. Regardless of what your BIL said, you and your DH need to stay out of it.

+1
Your BIL's relationship with his MIL is not your business. He and his wife can work that out themselves. The fact that your husband feels the need to ALSO punish BIL indicates some troublesome family dynamics. Everyone's rushing to protect the bully because one of her victims finally snapped (which is the point, isn't it? She needles and needles and needles, and then he loses his temper and now she's the victim and he's the bad guy). The easiest way to handle this would have been to say, "Hey, BIL, I know MIL is a pain and she was being really rude to you. I honestly don't blame you for snapping. But could you just not say that particular word in front of the kids?" And then let it go.

Agree with this approach but also am delighted with a PP’s comment that you could helpfully suggest he consider the gender-neutral “sociopath” as an alternative for the future.

Yup. This.

Anonymous wrote:This is actually between the BIL and the MIL. Nobody else needs to take sides.

If the DH doesn't go then he is getting in the middle of other people's adult relationships, which usually makes things worse.

I guess DH doesn't have to go, this will only create more bad blood and eventually lead to relationships falling apart or being strained. DH should let the people involved sort out their differences.

This is how these families work though, one person walks around being endlessly rude and then the one time someone calls them out and is rude back everyone jumps on to shut them down. Dh needs to come to his mothers rescue rather than acknowledging that she is rude herself and not a victim. Its so typical.

Yes name calling isn't productive but if you've ever been around someone who constantly pushes your buttons, sometimes you are just done with it.

This. Don't get in the middle. It's their problem to solve.

Truth hurts sometimes. She needed to hear that, even if the delivery and timing sucked.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m the PP. Regardless of what your BIL said, you and your DH need to stay out of it.

+1
Your BIL's relationship with his MIL is not your business. He and his wife can work that out themselves. The fact that your husband feels the need to ALSO punish BIL indicates some troublesome family dynamics. Everyone's rushing to protect the bully because one of her victims finally snapped (which is the point, isn't it? She needles and needles and needles, and then he loses his temper and now she's the victim and he's the bad guy). The easiest way to handle this would have been to say, "Hey, BIL, I know MIL is a pain and she was being really rude to you. I honestly don't blame you for snapping. But could you just not say that particular word in front of the kids?" And then let it go.

Agree with this approach but also am delighted with a PP’s comment that you could helpfully suggest he consider the gender-neutral “sociopath” as an alternative for the future.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think it saying the Patio is not as good as xyz's is a reason to be cussed out and be called a "Bltch". I can understand the BIL being equally rude ans saying "Well, we really don't care what you feel about it because we like it and in our own house our taste matters!!"

So I am all for BIL making an equally rude remark back to MIL and putting her in her place - but cussing and calling her names is just unforgivable. I am on team OP's DH on this one.

However, the person I would worry about it OP's SIL, because she probably has no option but to support her DH. Also, if her DH can call the MIL a bltch, then he probably is also slapping around his biwi (wife) with impunity.

Your DH should not go.

That is . . . quite a leap.

Not really. A man who’s willing to cross a boundary to the extent where he’s screaming obscenities at his MIL in front of his whole family is probably at least smacking around his wife in private.

NP. You're making up "screaming." That's a little bit of fiction that you are adding. Here's facts:
"...called my MIL a b**** in front of everyone..."

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think it saying the Patio is not as good as xyz's is a reason to be cussed out and be called a "Bltch". I can understand the BIL being equally rude ans saying "Well, we really don't care what you feel about it because we like it and in our own house our taste matters!!"

So I am all for BIL making an equally rude remark back to MIL and putting her in her place - but cussing and calling her names is just unforgivable. I am on team OP's DH on this one.

However, the person I would worry about it OP's SIL, because she probably has no option but to support her DH. Also, if her DH can call the MIL a bltch, then he probably is also slapping around his biwi (wife) with impunity.

Your DH should not go.

That is . . . quite a leap.

Not really. A man who’s willing to cross a boundary to the extent where he’s screaming obscenities at his MIL in front of his whole family is probably at least smacking around his wife in private.

Anonymous wrote:Deliberate poking and button-pushing has consequences. Being deliberately rude to someone for absolutely no reason will yield bad results. Don't poke the bear in the zoo.

Interesting. So you want to teach your daughters that if they say something critical it’s okay for their father/husband/etc to scream obscenities in their faces? And it will be their fault? Wow. No wonder so many women end up in abusive relationships. They shouldn’t have poked the bear amirite?

Anonymous wrote:DH and I are from the same culture. When my own mother questioned why we were having another child and that maybe it's not too late to have an abortion just as we broke the news about my pregnancy, my DH kicked her out of the house. And no, I didn't stop him. Because that is not the reaction anyone should have. And before anyone says anything: no, we are not struggling financially, no, we are not dependent on her, in fact it's the opposite, and no, you certainly don't say that in front of another child who is all excited because he's getting a sibling.

Okay, but did he say something like “Get out of my house. That’s unacceptable.” Or did he start screaming and cussing her out in front of your child? I’m not against standing up fir yourself, but I am against modeling objectively terrible behavior in front of kids.

Also, there is a world of difference between criticizing someone’s patio decor and suggesting they should abort their pregnancy.

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Many of you suggested we deal with MIL differently. How so? How do you provide consequences to a grown woman? Remove access to our family completely? Refuse to visit her and FIL? Cut them out of our lives?

I married into the family 10 years ago and have tried my own strategies (talking to her directly and calmly when she does something offensive, ignoring her, getting upset with her - none of which have worked.) I’m convinced there are mental undiagnosed issues.

Genuinely curious.

It seems as always you have a DH problem. Has your DH ever backed you up when it comes to MIL?
It seems it's you doing all the work setting boundaries.

And now DH wants to punish his brother for not going along with mom's bad behavior.

Yes bil should not have used that word and yelled but that's merely a symptom of a bigger problem which is mils behavior.

DH and I are from the same culture. When my own mother questioned why we were having another child and that maybe it's not too late to have an abortion just as we broke the news about my pregnancy, my DH kicked her out of the house. And no, I didn't stop him. Because that is not the reaction anyone should have. And before anyone says anything: no, we are not struggling financially, no, we are not dependent on her, in fact it's the opposite, and no, you certainly don't say that in front of another child who is all excited because he's getting a sibling.

Deliberate poking and button-pushing has consequences. Being deliberately rude to someone for absolutely no reason will yield bad results. Don't poke the bear in the zoo.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Adults, especially in the presence of children, have an obligation to model how to handle rudeness. BIL can refuse to “take it” by pointing out that MIL is being rude, calling out the behavior as unkind without name calling, by walking away. Calling someone a misogynistic term just isn’t ok. I don’t want my sons thinking they can drop that word in anger or my daughters thinking that they might deserve it.

This would have been mature great advice had OP not already tried it MULTIPLE times!

Anonymous wrote: OP here. Many of you suggested we deal with MIL differently. How so? How do you provide consequences to a grown woman? Remove access to our family completely? Refuse to visit her and FIL? Cut them out of our lives?

I married into the family 10 years ago and have tried my own strategies (talking to her directly and calmly when she does something offensive, ignoring her, getting upset with her - none of which have worked.) I’m convinced there are mental undiagnosed issues.

Genuinely curious.

BIL didn’t leave after pointing out that MIL was being rude, he chose to use a curse word at his mother in front of the kids.

And the kids will be fine. If they are in school at all they have heard it many times.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Whether a B or not or whether calling her a B or not, or who was right, wrong, justified, my breaking point would be both of them doing this in front of family and especially grandkids. No matter what the circumstances, this is not what I’d want in front of family and my children, nieces or nephews. To overlook it gives those kids the impression that it’s ok and permissible to let it happen to them in the future.

+1. I especially don’t want my daughters raised to think it’s ok for a man to call them that word without apology, no matter what the man’s excuses are.

NP who agrees with this. I think virtually any expression of anger/upset that wasn’t full on screaming or swearing would have been ok. You can apologize for the word choice without apologizing for your feelings. I also note OP said the MIL has apologized so I think it’s pretty fair to expect the other person to do the same for saying something unacceptable.

Following up to say agree with everyone else saying that you can’t force an apology so focus is how to move forward. My IL are my this bad but have boundary issues and don’t expect to be criticized EVER. When I am with them my focus is providing an example to my children of what I won’t accept and how I deal with that. In the future you can speak up for your family, saying clearly you don’t accept that kind of language in front of your kids. But also discussing with your kids what their uncle could have said instead and modeling calmly saying “I don’t appreciate that” if MIL criticizes you. Or some other stock phrase- it helps me to say the same thing every time. And if you choose to reduce the number of visits you can explain to your kids you love BIL/MIL very much but because of the way they are acting you are taking a break/doing something else.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Whether a B or not or whether calling her a B or not, or who was right, wrong, justified, my breaking point would be both of them doing this in front of family and especially grandkids. No matter what the circumstances, this is not what I’d want in front of family and my children, nieces or nephews. To overlook it gives those kids the impression that it’s ok and permissible to let it happen to them in the future.

+1. I especially don’t want my daughters raised to think it’s ok for a man to call them that word without apology, no matter what the man’s excuses are.

NP who agrees with this. I think virtually any expression of anger/upset that wasn’t full on screaming or swearing would have been ok. You can apologize for the word choice without apologizing for your feelings. I also note OP said the MIL has apologized so I think it’s pretty fair to expect the other person to do the same for saying something unacceptable.