Anonymous wrote:Every plumber, electrician, firefighter, police officer I know all do extremely well. A top school education doesn't mean anything without the drive to get what you want.

What do you think the average firefighter makes?

Every plumber, electrician, firefighter, police officer I know all do extremely well. A top school education doesn't mean anything without the drive to get what you want.

Those people who put so much stress on their kids need to look in the mirror.

We have stressed to our kids do what you need to do to be happy. if that is taking on level classes and being a normal kid, go be the best at it. If it means taking harder classes and being stressed about it go ahead, we are here to support you. If it means going into the trades, go do it, we are here to support you in any way shape or form.

There are more "average" kids that succeed and that are happy than those "high achievers" that are happy

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

DP. I know two self-made billionaires who did not attend college. I’ve met a third (Bill Gates) who attended but did not graduate. That’s in addition to quite a few more run of the mill millionaires that I know. Most college graduates are salary workers who won’t take the risks necessary to get really rich.

I don't know if you went to college or not, but you certainly didn't learn basic statistics.

Of course most college graduates are salary workers. Most *workers* are either salaried or hourly workers...and it is way more desirable in most situations to be in an appropriately salaried job (there are, of course, employers who get away with salarying jobs that should be hourly, but I don't mean those).

Yes there are a handful of billionaires who didn't attend or dropped out of college. Guess what, even more billionaires do have college degrees! If you think not attending college is the strategy for long-term career success, boy do I have a bridge to sell you.

At least I learned basic reading comprehension, and how not to argue using straw men.

I was telling my friend about the ridiculous assertions being made about the "book smarts" and incomes of people who go into the trades here. She just had extensive work done on her house's electrical system (in the DMV) and shared that the owner of the company they used has a graduate degree in electrical engineering.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

DP. I know two self-made billionaires who did not attend college. I’ve met a third (Bill Gates) who attended but did not graduate. That’s in addition to quite a few more run of the mill millionaires that I know. Most college graduates are salary workers who won’t take the risks necessary to get really rich.

I don't know if you went to college or not, but you certainly didn't learn basic statistics.

Of course most college graduates are salary workers. Most *workers* are either salaried or hourly workers...and it is way more desirable in most situations to be in an appropriately salaried job (there are, of course, employers who get away with salarying jobs that should be hourly, but I don't mean those).

Yes there are a handful of billionaires who didn't attend or dropped out of college. Guess what, even more billionaires do have college degrees! If you think not attending college is the strategy for long-term career success, boy do I have a bridge to sell you.

PP sounds like my teenager, who just explained to me that he doesn't need to study because he's going to make millions on the Internet like all the other people he's heard about without college degrees. Sounds like a great plan to me.

Anonymous wrote:I started a thread a while back asking for tips for my public school B student with crummy test scores. The responses weren’t kind.

Honestly, we know so many people who own handyman or plumbing businesses, and they are far wealthier than DH and I are with our advanced degrees and white collar jobs. I’m tempted to have my kid apprentice with a family friend and simply invest $200k in my son’s future business rather than pay tuition someplace.

He applied to 10 schools, and who knows what will happen?

Please stop glorifying "the trades" with tales of the one person you know who has lots of money. Trades are incredibly hard work, and making a lot of money at one is mostly about starting and running a successful business. I went to college and grad school and then later in life decided to start a business that is similar to a trade. It's been harder than any job that I ever had using my degrees, and so far I haven't made as much money. I see fellow business owners fail much more often than they succeed. "The trades" are not just some cushy certificate that anyone can get and then make a lot of money. It's a long, hard ladder to that point. Better off with a degree, if they are at all suited for college. Even a - gasp - mediocre college, provided it doesn't involve too many loans.

Interesting analogy.

My kid rejected a school that took her off the wait list eventually, I think because she felt they had "toyed with her affections."

(Plus, TBH, they were gaming the numbers game. They said they would take her off the wait list only if she would guarantee she would accept. Our preference was to visit the campus, since she had been ineligible to visit on "Accepted Students Day "--since she was still waitlisted at that point. By pulling that nonsense, they ensured that she would not enter the books as a kid who had declined their offer. )

As a parent of kid who went to "one of those colleges" that everyone brags about and another kid who I am not sure will graduate high school due to depression after covid.....

I want to simply say, I understand your frustration on several levels. I want to extend a sincere wish that your child is happy at the school they choose to attend.

One of the schools, we toured compared college admission to dating. EA means you are telling them that you love them. But, sometimes the school says, they want to see what else is out there before saying those same words. It doesn't mean that school won't come around but it may take some extra wooing on your part. or sometimes, it is best to accept that if a school doesn't see your value and love you, another school who will cherish your child is a better fit.

So, I hope your child finds a school that will value them and see them for the wonderful young person they are.

We all put way too much into high school academics. Your kid will go to college and will do fine, and will pursue what interests him.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:National average GPA is 3.0 and national average ACT is 20.6.

A lot of kids with these stats go to college and do just fine. Don’t compare apples and oranges - DC area is one of the most highly educated and some of the highest HHI in the US. Those factors are skewing your perception of what is “average.” Not everyone has a 4.2 and scores 35 on ACT. Not everyone goes to a top 20 UNSWR college. Your kid is not a failure because he didn’t get into a public Ivy or top rated SLAC.

There are a lot of really nasty people in the DC area (and on DCUM) who seem to think life is all about beating the Joneses. We have never subscribed to this and do our own thing and encourage our kids to do their own thing. So far it’s working out just fine.

NP here. Thank you for this.
The rat race in this area is something we had to consciously opt out of before we even had kids.
It's hard though! I have a SN kid who struggle all through public school and continues to struggle in college.
My younger kid is high stats.. and every time I read these boards, I find myself gravitating towards the competitiveness that we didn't want to be part of.

+1. We live in the DC area and experienced this mindset in K-12. We did not subscribe to it for either of our two children. We encouraged them to do their best but did not want them in an excessively competitive and stressful environment. The college application process was manageable and, for the most part, stress free because we focused mostly on match schools. My kids got into great colleges that were good fits for them. My husband and I are successful professionals and live in an affluent area of the DC area. We know you don't need to go to a top 20 college to be successful. DCUM is hyper-focused on the most competitive privates and top colleges. A lot of kids are stressed out unnecessarily. I would rather have happy and well rounded, successful kids than kids who can barely function due to the stress they are under. There are so many great colleges for "average" students who do not have a 4.0+ gpa or high test scores. Many of the Joneses are fake and living beyond their means. Don't believe the FB and IG posts. All is not as it appears.

Anonymous wrote:

DP. I know two self-made billionaires who did not attend college. I’ve met a third (Bill Gates) who attended but did not graduate. That’s in addition to quite a few more run of the mill millionaires that I know. Most college graduates are salary workers who won’t take the risks necessary to get really rich.

I don't know if you went to college or not, but you certainly didn't learn basic statistics.

Of course most college graduates are salary workers. Most *workers* are either salaried or hourly workers...and it is way more desirable in most situations to be in an appropriately salaried job (there are, of course, employers who get away with salarying jobs that should be hourly, but I don't mean those).

Yes there are a handful of billionaires who didn't attend or dropped out of college. Guess what, even more billionaires do have college degrees! If you think not attending college is the strategy for long-term career success, boy do I have a bridge to sell you.

Anonymous wrote:National average GPA is 3.0 and national average ACT is 20.6.

A lot of kids with these stats go to college and do just fine. Don’t compare apples and oranges - DC area is one of the most highly educated and some of the highest HHI in the US. Those factors are skewing your perception of what is “average.” Not everyone has a 4.2 and scores 35 on ACT. Not everyone goes to a top 20 UNSWR college. Your kid is not a failure because he didn’t get into a public Ivy or top rated SLAC.

There are a lot of really nasty people in the DC area (and on DCUM) who seem to think life is all about beating the Joneses. We have never subscribed to this and do our own thing and encourage our kids to do their own thing. So far it’s working out just fine.

NP here. Thank you for this.
The rat race in this area is something we had to consciously opt out of before we even had kids.
It's hard though! I have a SN kid who struggle all through public school and continues to struggle in college.
My younger kid is high stats.. and every time I read these boards, I find myself gravitating towards the competitiveness that we didn't want to be part of.

National average GPA is 3.0 and national average ACT is 20.6.

A lot of kids with these stats go to college and do just fine. Don’t compare apples and oranges - DC area is one of the most highly educated and some of the highest HHI in the US. Those factors are skewing your perception of what is “average.” Not everyone has a 4.2 and scores 35 on ACT. Not everyone goes to a top 20 UNSWR college. Your kid is not a failure because he didn’t get into a public Ivy or top rated SLAC.

There are a lot of really nasty people in the DC area (and on DCUM) who seem to think life is all about beating the Joneses. We have never subscribed to this and do our own thing and encourage our kids to do their own thing. So far it’s working out just fine.

I will say, as a NP with a PhD who also grew up in a working class family....there is a reverse stigmatization that goes on.

My brother will excoriate academia and higher education, then say "oh sorry" to me. I am a professor at a University and he has basically just spent 45 minutes criticizing my whole profession.

People think it is such an easy life, and it is not. It is a rewarding life, and I am glad I chose it. But it took a lot of work/debt and stress to get here.