Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just saw the thread on the mom who wants to put it in her nanny contract that the nanny not use her cell phone while baby is awake.

I SAH with a 2 year old, and have two school age kids. I definitely use my cell phone during the day, but I DO try to hold myself to similar standards a WOH parent would hold a nanny - that is, I focus on my kid when he’s awake, so no, I don’t have time for an hour long phone call to chat with my parents, or to drive to pick up random things for the older kids classroom, or whatever. And ideally I’d not set up my two year old in front of the TV so I can workout or whatever else people think SAHMs have to a of time for but would NEVER let their nanny do!

That’s all. I find other SAH parents get that my hands are full, but I’m shocked how many WOHMs think I have all this time on my hands when they simultaneously seem aware that a nanny should be focusing on the kid.

I've been a SAHM and a working mom. They are both different. Both are really hard in different ways. When I worked outside of the home, I was losing hair from the stress. When I stayed at home, I had a tough time with the isolation and endless days. You can be stressed and busy in both in different ways.

+1

Also: depends on the job, depends on the kid (and the age of the kid), depends on your other resources. Studies/surveys bear this out too. It's silly to compare SAHMs to WOHMs in terms of busyness and stress while ignore all those other factors. There is tons of nuance here.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are the people in this thread living in 2021? So much of the commentary seems trapped in an earlier time.

A lot of people just get their groceries and other errands delivered these days. If you work a desk job, you actually can do your grocery shopping at work, as well as ordering random stuff for the house, buying kids clothes, booking a handyman, making dentist appointments, etc. And most people I know do these things during their work day, especially with the rise of WFH. I can't think of anyone, including the many middle class families I know, who actually save all these tasks for after work or the weekends.

So in many ways a SAHM is in the same situation as most working parents, doing the work of life while doing another job. It's just that the "other job" is caring for a small child (in OP's case, a 2yo, which is very labor intensive).

I don't understand why OP's time can't be respected as much as you would respect any working parent's time. It's weird how people assume that because you are home with your kids, your life must not be hard. I remember when my kid started preschool and I went back to work, my MIL started saying things to me like "Oh it must be so much harder now that you're working." I wasn't offended, I was just confused. My life got so much easier when I went back to work and my kid was in school all day! I felt like I could think full thoughts and get things done, and not just work things, for the first time in years. The first couple months of this new arrangement, I got the house painted, hired a landscaper, reorganized our coat closet, and got us on a meal prep schedule to streamline making lunches and dinners. That would have been so much harder (to impossible) when I was still SAHMing because I never got a moment to think with a toddler around all day. Especially once she started dropping naps left and right. I am much better able to help out friends now, and I'm a much more attentive sister and daughter too. Those first few years at home with my DD were wonderful in many ways. But I've never worked harder or felt like my time was less my own.

You must have some cushy job to spend that much time shopping while working.

Yes, I do. Unlike a SAHM, who does not.

Okay, sure. A job where you sit in shopping is easier than SAH. I'm sure you have time for phone calls and reading for book club. What exactly is your point?

That being a SAHM to a very young child is harder and more time-consuming than many jobs, including mine. And probably yours too. Know what I didn't have time to do when I was at home with a 2 yr old? Argue with strangers online. And if you'll notice, OP has been MIA since originally posting. Maybe she just doesn't want to engage, but when I was in that position, I literally did not have the time to post on a site like this during the day. Whereas now I sit at a desk answering emails and doing research and writing presentations, and it's exceedingly easy to take a few minutes to check DCUM and type out a response (on my computer, where I already am, and not on my phone with one hand while my 2 yo calls to me from the slide that some other kid "isn't giving me a turn!" which is what my life used to be like and thus why I didn't use to spend any time on DCUM).

What, exactly, is your point?

Anonymous wrote:I work and my parents think nothing of calling me in the middle of the day to discuss mundane details of a months-away visit, and getting annoyed if I don't pick up or I tell them I have to talk later. It's not exclusively a SAHM problem.

+1. Especially since I started working from home during the pandemic. Nevermind that working from home actually made a lot of aspect of my job harder and more time consuming. My parents, neighbors, even certain friends think I’m free all day long to chat with them or lend them a hand. And you know what? That’s totally fine. Sometimes I can make time to help my neighbor move a dresser in between meetings or pick up a prescription for my dad. Most of the time I can’t and I just tell them that. Either way, I’m certainly not offended that they asked and I don’t care what they think about how busy I am.

Anonymous wrote:I just saw the thread on the mom who wants to put it in her nanny contract that the nanny not use her cell phone while baby is awake.

I SAH with a 2 year old, and have two school age kids. I definitely use my cell phone during the day, but I DO try to hold myself to similar standards a WOH parent would hold a nanny - that is, I focus on my kid when he’s awake, so no, I don’t have time for an hour long phone call to chat with my parents, or to drive to pick up random things for the older kids classroom, or whatever. And ideally I’d not set up my two year old in front of the TV so I can workout or whatever else people think SAHMs have to a of time for but would NEVER let their nanny do!

That’s all. I find other SAH parents get that my hands are full, but I’m shocked how many WOHMs think I have all this time on my hands when they simultaneously seem aware that a nanny should be focusing on the kid.

I've been a SAHM and a working mom. They are both different. Both are really hard in different ways. When I worked outside of the home, I was losing hair from the stress. When I stayed at home, I had a tough time with the isolation and endless days. You can be stressed and busy in both in different ways.

Anonymous wrote:I work and my parents think nothing of calling me in the middle of the day to discuss mundane details of a months-away visit, and getting annoyed if I don't pick up or I tell them I have to talk later. It's not exclusively a SAHM problem.

HA so true. Just fielded an urgent "can you please call me" text from my mom in order for her to tell me she would really like the kids' christmas lists because she just watched the news on supply chain issues. DON'T ASSUME I HAVE A TON OF FREE TIME, MOM! (I also WOH)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are the people in this thread living in 2021? So much of the commentary seems trapped in an earlier time.

A lot of people just get their groceries and other errands delivered these days. If you work a desk job, you actually can do your grocery shopping at work, as well as ordering random stuff for the house, buying kids clothes, booking a handyman, making dentist appointments, etc. And most people I know do these things during their work day, especially with the rise of WFH. I can't think of anyone, including the many middle class families I know, who actually save all these tasks for after work or the weekends.

So in many ways a SAHM is in the same situation as most working parents, doing the work of life while doing another job. It's just that the "other job" is caring for a small child (in OP's case, a 2yo, which is very labor intensive).

I don't understand why OP's time can't be respected as much as you would respect any working parent's time. It's weird how people assume that because you are home with your kids, your life must not be hard. I remember when my kid started preschool and I went back to work, my MIL started saying things to me like "Oh it must be so much harder now that you're working." I wasn't offended, I was just confused. My life got so much easier when I went back to work and my kid was in school all day! I felt like I could think full thoughts and get things done, and not just work things, for the first time in years. The first couple months of this new arrangement, I got the house painted, hired a landscaper, reorganized our coat closet, and got us on a meal prep schedule to streamline making lunches and dinners. That would have been so much harder (to impossible) when I was still SAHMing because I never got a moment to think with a toddler around all day. Especially once she started dropping naps left and right. I am much better able to help out friends now, and I'm a much more attentive sister and daughter too. Those first few years at home with my DD were wonderful in many ways. But I've never worked harder or felt like my time was less my own.

You must have some cushy job to spend that much time shopping while working.

Yes, I do. Unlike a SAHM, who does not.

Okay, sure. A job where you sit in shopping is easier than SAH. I'm sure you have time for phone calls and reading for book club. What exactly is your point?

Anonymous wrote:I just saw the thread on the mom who wants to put it in her nanny contract that the nanny not use her cell phone while baby is awake.

I SAH with a 2 year old, and have two school age kids. I definitely use my cell phone during the day, but I DO try to hold myself to similar standards a WOH parent would hold a nanny - that is, I focus on my kid when he’s awake, so no, I don’t have time for an hour long phone call to chat with my parents, or to drive to pick up random things for the older kids classroom, or whatever. And ideally I’d not set up my two year old in front of the TV so I can workout or whatever else people think SAHMs have to a of time for but would NEVER let their nanny do!

That’s all. I find other SAH parents get that my hands are full, but I’m shocked how many WOHMs think I have all this time on my hands when they simultaneously seem aware that a nanny should be focusing on the kid.

I would think you don’t know how to manage time well if I heard you complaining like this.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everyone's boundaries and capacities are different regardless of SAH or WOH. We all know (or are!) SAH parents who stay home precisely so they CAN be involved with the PTA, have more time for working out or working around the house, be the one who volunteers to pick up random things for the kids' classroom, etc. So it's a little rich to sneer that yes, you stay at home, but you are still omg too busy to do these things. The better tack is to graciously hold your boundary if there is ever an incorrect assumption of how you specifically choose to use your time: "I'm sorry, I'm not available to do x at y time." Don't make it a thing.

I can see this if you are a SAH parent to kids who are in school. But with a 2-year-old at home, it's a lot harder for her to volunteer for PTA than someone like me who WOH with two in elementary school.

Is anything preventing her from saying no?

I’m currently a SAHM to infant twins and I think I have a fair amount of free time. They’re not mobile yet and I have older children, so I’m sure this will change in the future, but I still think it’s much easier to get stuff done around the house all day vs. having do to it between the hours of 6-10pm when I WOH full time.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are the people in this thread living in 2021? So much of the commentary seems trapped in an earlier time.

A lot of people just get their groceries and other errands delivered these days. If you work a desk job, you actually can do your grocery shopping at work, as well as ordering random stuff for the house, buying kids clothes, booking a handyman, making dentist appointments, etc. And most people I know do these things during their work day, especially with the rise of WFH. I can't think of anyone, including the many middle class families I know, who actually save all these tasks for after work or the weekends.

So in many ways a SAHM is in the same situation as most working parents, doing the work of life while doing another job. It's just that the "other job" is caring for a small child (in OP's case, a 2yo, which is very labor intensive).

I don't understand why OP's time can't be respected as much as you would respect any working parent's time. It's weird how people assume that because you are home with your kids, your life must not be hard. I remember when my kid started preschool and I went back to work, my MIL started saying things to me like "Oh it must be so much harder now that you're working." I wasn't offended, I was just confused. My life got so much easier when I went back to work and my kid was in school all day! I felt like I could think full thoughts and get things done, and not just work things, for the first time in years. The first couple months of this new arrangement, I got the house painted, hired a landscaper, reorganized our coat closet, and got us on a meal prep schedule to streamline making lunches and dinners. That would have been so much harder (to impossible) when I was still SAHMing because I never got a moment to think with a toddler around all day. Especially once she started dropping naps left and right. I am much better able to help out friends now, and I'm a much more attentive sister and daughter too. Those first few years at home with my DD were wonderful in many ways. But I've never worked harder or felt like my time was less my own.

You must have some cushy job to spend that much time shopping while working.

Yes, I do. Unlike a SAHM, who does not.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe it’s because focusing your attention exclusively on your 2 year old for 8 hours doesn’t sound that healthy. The only benefit of SAH (IMO) is more time, flexibility, and less stress. You seem to somehow have turned parenting into a job. If you like it that way fine - but there’s nothing better about your way.

Then why don’t people ask nannies to run a bunch of errands or clean the house with a 2 year old in tow?

They do....

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everyone's boundaries and capacities are different regardless of SAH or WOH. We all know (or are!) SAH parents who stay home precisely so they CAN be involved with the PTA, have more time for working out or working around the house, be the one who volunteers to pick up random things for the kids' classroom, etc. So it's a little rich to sneer that yes, you stay at home, but you are still omg too busy to do these things. The better tack is to graciously hold your boundary if there is ever an incorrect assumption of how you specifically choose to use your time: "I'm sorry, I'm not available to do x at y time." Don't make it a thing.

Well said. And it's certainly reasonable to assume that a SAHM has more free time than a WOH mom!

Not if the children are under the age of 3 (or 4, depending on when they start PK). Being the full time caregiver for a 2 year old will absolutely melt your brain. The idea that it's easier for someone in that situation to do things for other people is crazy. To go back to OP's original point, imagine if you hired a nanny to care for your 2 year old and then the nanny was like "ok, but I've got a bunch of volunteer stuff to do for the PTA at my kid's school, and also I need to run some errands for some of my friends and neighbors, and pick up my sister's friends from school because she has a real job."

A 2 year old is a full time, exhausting job. Full stop. Anyone with kids, whether you SAHed or not, should know that. If you have ever spent 2-3 hours caring for a child this age, you should understand that it does not lend itself to a leisurely life of volunteer work and getting in workouts. When I was a SAHM of a child this age, I probably showered twice a week and regularly just ate cheese slices and an orange for 90% of my meals because I barely had time to take care of myself, much less do favors for friends.

You are crazy. Please, a 2 year old often times will nap, can be easily entertained by some pots and pans, and guess what, toss them in the stroller put in the airpods and you can make a leisurely call while your charge is entertained by squirrels and garbage trucks.

All of that is true for most 18 month olds and not for most 2.5 year olds. Two and three year olds are exhausting.

+1

The difference between 24mo and age 3 was crazy to me. My just-turned-2 year old would happily play on her own for long stretches, could be entertained easily with simple toys and objects around the house, was easy to take on errands and other outings, would eat anything I gave her, etc.

My 2.5 and 3 year old hated playing on her own for any length of time ("play with me!" started out sweet and rapidly became one of my least favorite things). And because she was in the stage of trying to master independence at skills that were still relatively new, gone were the days of her just happily drawing with crayons for an hour. Instead, she'd get frustrated that her picture didn't look the way she wanted, she'd press too hard and break the crayons, she'd cry and make demands. At this age you have to do what preschool teachers do -- facilitate, listen, problem solve, encourage. It is hard and draining but it's also essential because your kid will never learn coping skills or independence if you don't do it.

And then there's potty training. Dressing themselves. The sudden onset of rejecting 90% of the food you try to serve them (it's instinctual). Ages 2/3 are, in my opinion, the toughest years of early childhood because they are the true transition from babyhood to childhood and you have to navigate it with a child who is new to everything. They've been walking for a year or so. Talking for less time than that. The concepts of feelings, judgment, conversation, etc. are all totally new and foreign to them.

There are many nannies who don't even like this age, and they get to go home at the end of the day. And they usually have much more refined skills in terms of dealing with the challenges of this age than even a parent of 3 or 4 kids. You forget too easily how hard it is. I remember having days of potty training where I cried myself to sleep because my kid was struggling so much and I honestly did not know how to help. And then she was trained and it's like it instantly became no big deal. But when you are in the middle of it, it feels like you are never going to get through it. Even when you've done it before. In fact, I think it's extra demoralizing when you run into new difficulties with a 2nd or 3rd child because you (falsely) believed you'd figured it out already, only to discover kids are different and you just got lucky in that area before.

Anonymous wrote:Are the people in this thread living in 2021? So much of the commentary seems trapped in an earlier time.

A lot of people just get their groceries and other errands delivered these days. If you work a desk job, you actually can do your grocery shopping at work, as well as ordering random stuff for the house, buying kids clothes, booking a handyman, making dentist appointments, etc. And most people I know do these things during their work day, especially with the rise of WFH. I can't think of anyone, including the many middle class families I know, who actually save all these tasks for after work or the weekends.

So in many ways a SAHM is in the same situation as most working parents, doing the work of life while doing another job. It's just that the "other job" is caring for a small child (in OP's case, a 2yo, which is very labor intensive).

I don't understand why OP's time can't be respected as much as you would respect any working parent's time. It's weird how people assume that because you are home with your kids, your life must not be hard. I remember when my kid started preschool and I went back to work, my MIL started saying things to me like "Oh it must be so much harder now that you're working." I wasn't offended, I was just confused. My life got so much easier when I went back to work and my kid was in school all day! I felt like I could think full thoughts and get things done, and not just work things, for the first time in years. The first couple months of this new arrangement, I got the house painted, hired a landscaper, reorganized our coat closet, and got us on a meal prep schedule to streamline making lunches and dinners. That would have been so much harder (to impossible) when I was still SAHMing because I never got a moment to think with a toddler around all day. Especially once she started dropping naps left and right. I am much better able to help out friends now, and I'm a much more attentive sister and daughter too. Those first few years at home with my DD were wonderful in many ways. But I've never worked harder or felt like my time was less my own.

You must have some cushy job to spend that much time shopping while working.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Not if the children are under the age of 3 (or 4, depending on when they start PK). Being the full time caregiver for a 2 year old will absolutely melt your brain. The idea that it's easier for someone in that situation to do things for other people is crazy. To go back to OP's original point, imagine if you hired a nanny to care for your 2 year old and then the nanny was like "ok, but I've got a bunch of volunteer stuff to do for the PTA at my kid's school, and also I need to run some errands for some of my friends and neighbors, and pick up my sister's friends from school because she has a real job."

A 2 year old is a full time, exhausting job. Full stop. Anyone with kids, whether you SAHed or not, should know that. If you have ever spent 2-3 hours caring for a child this age, you should understand that it does not lend itself to a leisurely life of volunteer work and getting in workouts. When I was a SAHM of a child this age, I probably showered twice a week and regularly just ate cheese slices and an orange for 90% of my meals because I barely had time to take care of myself, much less do favors for friends.

You are crazy. Please, a 2 year old often times will nap, can be easily entertained by some pots and pans, and guess what, toss them in the stroller put in the airpods and you can make a leisurely call while your charge is entertained by squirrels and garbage trucks.

All of that is true for most 18 month olds and not for most 2.5 year olds. Two and three year olds are exhausting.

I'm genuinely curious what you think makes it impossible to care for a 2-3 y.o. and get errands done. I parented a 3 y.o. during COVID while working full-time, having to pause most of our out-sourcing, and overseeing an older kid's virtual learning. It was definitely not easy, and I was constantly exhausted...but I'm not quite getting how it was so much worse than the 1-2 y.o. age range. At least when he was older he was partially potty-trained and better able to listen to/comply with basic safety boundaries.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe it’s because focusing your attention exclusively on your 2 year old for 8 hours doesn’t sound that healthy. The only benefit of SAH (IMO) is more time, flexibility, and less stress. You seem to somehow have turned parenting into a job. If you like it that way fine - but there’s nothing better about your way.

Then why don’t people ask nannies to run a bunch of errands or clean the house with a 2 year old in tow?

You seem to have trouble with the distinction between a nanny who is working as an employee in someone else’s household and a person who is running their own household.

This. The nanny is being paid to do a job. Of course she should not be on the phone for more than a few minutes while kids are home/awake. The at doesn’t mean a SAHM can’t talk to her mother for an hour while with her kids.