Anonymous
Post 10/18/2021 12:13     Subject: My DH does not understand what it's like to be the primary parent
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I don’t know why y’all marry these men.


When I married him, he was a self-sufficient adult who owned a home, was great at his job, planned dates for us, did his own laundry, etc. I never expected to be in this situation, and even when we had one kid he was pretty good. But something about the second kid... he just checks out a lot now. I have no idea what red flags I supposedly missed. I don't know what I could have done to prevent this beyond aggressively forcing him to take on childcare duties when they were babies. Should I have forced him to take a solo paternity leave, would that have helped? But then how do you even do that, it was not an option for us.

I think he hit a limit on parenting and we didn't know what that limit was going to be until we exceeded it. He was doing fine up until then.


DP, so I didn't write the first post. How is your relationship between you and your husband? To me, when I explain to my husband that I feel like I'm drowning or that I'm stressed out, he cares and reacts accordingly because he loves me. (And I do the same for him). It often requires a conversation outside the moment when you sit down and tell him how you feel.

My husband used to sit down on the couch in our living room (which is connected to our kitchen) when I was doing something in there because it looked like I was handling everything and didn't need his help. However, I was simultaneously emptying the dishwasher, making dinner, packing lunches, and dealing with the kids' homework. But because no one was screaming, he thought it was ok. Then I started sitting down on the couch with him. Every time he sat, I sat. I basically refused to do any work if he wasn't doing any (we both work full-time jobs, so this is just related to house/child work). He then realized how unfair it was that I was doing stuff while he wasn't. So now we either decide who is doing what (and if someone finished their tasks early they're generally kind enough to help the other person out), or we don't sit until we can both sit.


OMG this is like me and my DH. I guess I need to follow your example. I've even verbally pointed it out to him "I am standing here cooking and making tomorrow's lunches and you are sitting down doing nothing" and he still doesn't seem to get it or at least doesn't know what to do to help.


I'm PP. Seriously, give the sitting a try. I have a hard time sitting down and relaxing if everyone else isn't doing the same but once I did it and he could literally see that I wasn't moving, it caught his attention. I hope it works for you!
Anonymous
Post 10/18/2021 12:09     Subject: My DH does not understand what it's like to be the primary parent
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Every woman needs to understand that she is, 95% of the time, ALWAYS going to be the primary parent even if you have a nanny.


This is crap.

Just accept it? No way.

1) live together before you’re married. If he doesn’t happily do his half of the chores and household stuff completely independently, without being asked and without needing to be praised for it, dump him.
2) start out on the right foot. How many of you put together your whole baby registry with little or no input from your husbands? Nope. He’s gotta research and pick stuff too. And research childcare options or pediatricians. And read up on baby sleep. Etc. Yeah, it’s “easy and fun!” at the beginning. And it means you don’t always get what you want. Yup. That’s the only path to equality.
3) he takes 12 weeks paternity leave. I recommend 2 with you at the beginning and 10 on his own after you go back to work. Make sure he’s on board with this before you get married.
4) internalize NOW that your way isn’t the best way. Some things are gonna be done “sub-optimally” (aka, not how you want it done). EMBRACE this.
5) if things start to slip (like you realize that your kids always ask you for stuff and not him) nip it in the bud FAST. Don’t accept. Don’t whine and complain. Tell him, plainly, this is unacceptable and from now on you don’t respond to children’s requests during X and Y times and then HOLD TO IT.

Are there edge cases where you get screwed? Absolutely. Your formerly-equal partner husband turns out to be completely overwhelmed by children, discussions have gotten you nowhere, just leaving every Saturday for 3 months from 8-8 and letting the chips fall where they may has lead to McDonalds and 12 hours of television every single week and zero improvement or caring. So you take on the primary parent role because you need better for your kids. That SUCKS and I feel for you. But those unavoidable and hopeless cases are not 95%!! Maybe 10%.

Don’t give in to this crap!!

—a mom who does half and no more


Divorce is in your near future.


NP. Does it make you feel better to think that? Sounds to me like OP is more on a path to divorce than PP. Clearly this post hit a nerve with you. May want to think about why...
Anonymous
Post 10/18/2021 12:08     Subject: My DH does not understand what it's like to be the primary parent
Anonymous wrote:Every woman needs to understand that she is, 95% of the time, ALWAYS going to be the primary parent even if you have a nanny.


No, they don't. Our nanny texts BOTH OF US. Our kids' school has my husband's number listed first. When we carpool with other parents to things, we are BOTH on the text. I do make plans for the kids with other moms but he also makes plans for the kids with other dads. Stop thinking like this!!!
Anonymous
Post 10/18/2021 12:06     Subject: My DH does not understand what it's like to be the primary parent
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I have partly solved this problem. I leave the house. I go out with friends and let my husband do dinner and bedtime a few times a month. I don’t plan anything or prep anything for them. I just leave.

I workout most mornings outside of the house. I come home 20 min before I walk a kid to school. My husband gets them dressed, lunched packed and breakfast.

When the kids are home from school for the day, one parent is on duty and responsible for planning camps or activities. If my husband wants to spend his day with no plan or play date, that’s fine with me. I leave and work somewhere else. When my office was still closed I would lock my bedroom door so they could not come get me.


NP.

When I leave my husband with the kids in the morning, they often miss the bus. They also often don’t eat breakfast.
If my husband is home alone with the kids on a weekend or vacation day, they sit in front of the computer for 16 hours and get Chick-fil-A or pizza for dinner. They only get lunch if the older kid makes it.

We’ve tried it many times.


I mean, you need to unclench a bit. There's nothing wrong with occasional Chick Fil A or pizza for dinner. Missing the bus and spending 16 hours in front of the computer (really?!?) are obviously issues, but you need to pick your battles better. Your husband is probably tired of you complaining about EVERYTHING.

My kids were off school last Monday but neither my husband nor I were. Because of things I had done the week before, I needed to work, so he stepped up and took them for the day. They went to Chick Fil A for lunch and had a blast bowling and playing on a new playground. If I had micromanaged the day and said that they could and couldn't do and then complained when he brought them home safe and sound, I bet he wouldn't want to do that again.
Anonymous
Post 10/18/2021 11:59     Subject: Re:My DH does not understand what it's like to be the primary parent
Anonymous wrote:If you can find time to read or listen to Eve Rodsky’s “Fair Play” which addresses all the tasks related to keeping a household running.
I listened to it and my husband bought the cards because I told him that I didn’t feel like our parenting was in equitable situation.

She breaks it down into CPE, conceive, plan and execute- all the things, like making appointments, planning bday parties, etc.

https://www.fairplaylife.com/about-the-book

I think it saved my marriage and sanity and hugely growing sense of resentment that I was ON POINT FOR EVERY THING!!

If we don’t talk about this our kids will be having the same challenges once they are parents.

It has to stop somewhere.



+1,000

I have two daughters and I think one of the reasons I am so insistent that they see my husband doing everything I do is because I don't want them to marry men and end up on this board in situations like OP's.
Anonymous
Post 10/18/2021 10:34     Subject: My DH does not understand what it's like to be the primary parent
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
My husband used to sit down on the couch in our living room (which is connected to our kitchen) when I was doing something in there because it looked like I was handling everything and didn't need his help. However, I was simultaneously emptying the dishwasher, making dinner, packing lunches, and dealing with the kids' homework. But because no one was screaming, he thought it was ok. Then I started sitting down on the couch with him. Every time he sat, I sat. I basically refused to do any work if he wasn't doing any (we both work full-time jobs, so this is just related to house/child work). He then realized how unfair it was that I was doing stuff while he wasn't. So now we either decide who is doing what (and if someone finished their tasks early they're generally kind enough to help the other person out), or we don't sit until we can both sit.


This is amazing. More women should do this. Men can't argue it's unfair, or that their wives are lazy, because then they'd be calling themselves lazy.


NP. I don't want him to do stuff when I'm doing stuff. I want him to do his share of stuff (note that I did not say "help," because grown adults doing what needs to be done are not helping anyone) without being told.

I have yet to come up with a way of asking, "Do you think the stuff I handle makes your life easier? Do you think the reverse is true? What does that tell you about our relationship and my probable happiness?"


That's fine, but he's not doing it. So the physical manifestation of you not working when he's not working may cause him to reexamine what exactly he contributes to the household. Or maybe you'd rather complain.
Anonymous
Post 10/18/2021 10:33     Subject: Re:My DH does not understand what it's like to be the primary parent
^^^sorry, I messed up quoting above:

To me, neither parent can just decide unilaterally that they are off duty and the other one is on duty. It doesn't matter what the off duty parent wants to do. DH can't just walk out the door at a random time and say "I'm mowing the lawn, take care of the kids for an hour, bye." It's just inconsiderate and chaotic. And it's really passive aggressive for OP to just keep sending her kids over to DH when she didn't even discuss with him ahead of time what her plan for the day was. She's basically making the kids communicate with her husband for her.

Instead of starting her project at a random time and saying repeatedly "go to dad," what they should both do is talk at the beginning of the day/weekend about what they both need/want to do that weekend and work out what the best times are.

And it doesn't sound like OP is being clear about her boundaries. It sounds like she is randomly reinforcing "boundaries," which is even worse. Sometimes she helps the kids, sometimes she doesn't. Sometimes dad is on, sometimes mom is on. It all happens at random times. That's not boundaries that the kids can understand. If it's really a boundary, set it up that way. Every Saturday, mom has a time where she goes in her office, closes the door, and no one can bother her for an hour (ideally at a similar time each weekend). That's a boundary kids can understand.
Anonymous
Post 10/18/2021 10:32     Subject: My DH does not understand what it's like to be the primary parent
Anonymous wrote:

PP again. It just sounds to me from her post like yes, her DH is lazy, but fundamentally it sounds like she wants people to read her mind about when she’s busy and when she’s not. Why can’t she say “I am reading a book from 2-3, so DH, you need to be available for them.” It kind of sounds like neither she nor her husband get downtime, but her husband basically steals his by just going on his phone and ignoring the kids. Why not schedule downtime for the two of them? And it sounds like their house is fundamentally disorganized. No one should be wondering what’s for dinner, when it’s happening, who’s making it. I don’t think it’s fair to the kids that they have to ping pong between two adults just to get some lunch. I feel like OP has made herself the de facto boss of a house with no routine or organization, and then she just decides randomly that she wants time alone and everyone else is supposed to fall in line.


1) Why on earth would someone who is working or cleaning need to explain to their partner that they are busy and request that he take point with the kids, when he is playing video games or staring at his phone? Like how much of a red carpet invitation to parenting does a DH need? Like it is some real learned helplessness for the DH to argue that his wife is somehow not communicating her needs with him well enough when he is actively ignoring his children so he can play a video game. Just stop.

2) If someone is repeatedly saying “I am busy, go ask dad,” and no one is listening to her, she is not the “de facto boss” of the family. She is trying to set a boundary and being ignored.

People will blame women for the rudeness and incompetence of others, no matter how hard that woman is trying to communicate, be clear, assert needs, etc. Which is why men get away with this crap. Because when a woman complains about it, even other women will jump in and say “oh this is your fault.”


This. Especially point #1.
My DH is completely oblivious to anything going on around him in our house, and especially oblivious to whatever I may be doing (WFH, housework, helping other child, etc). I have to specifically call him out, get his attention, repeatedly ask him to help, etc. And, no, he most certainly wasn't like this before we had kids. We split everything 50/50.


To me, neither parent can just decide unilaterally that they are off duty and the other one is on duty. It doesn't matter what the off duty parent wants to do. DH can't just walk out the door at a random time and say "I'm mowing the lawn, take care of the kids for an hour, bye." It's just inconsiderate and chaotic. And it's really passive aggressive for OP to just keep sending her kids over to DH when she didn't even discuss with him ahead of time what her plan for the day was. She's basically making the kids communicate with her husband for her.

Instead of starting her project at a random time and saying repeatedly "go to dad," what they should both do is talk at the beginning of the day/weekend about what they both need/want to do that weekend and work out what the best times are.

And it doesn't sound like OP is being clear about her boundaries. It sounds like she is randomly reinforcing "boundaries," which is even worse. Sometimes she helps the kids, sometimes she doesn't. Sometimes dad is on, sometimes mom is on. It all happens at random times. That's not boundaries that the kids can understand. If it's really a boundary, set it up that way. Every Saturday, mom has a time where she goes in her office, closes the door, and no one can bother her for an hour (ideally at a similar time each weekend). That's a boundary kids can understand.
Anonymous
Post 10/18/2021 10:04     Subject: My DH does not understand what it's like to be the primary parent
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
My husband used to sit down on the couch in our living room (which is connected to our kitchen) when I was doing something in there because it looked like I was handling everything and didn't need his help. However, I was simultaneously emptying the dishwasher, making dinner, packing lunches, and dealing with the kids' homework. But because no one was screaming, he thought it was ok. Then I started sitting down on the couch with him. Every time he sat, I sat. I basically refused to do any work if he wasn't doing any (we both work full-time jobs, so this is just related to house/child work). He then realized how unfair it was that I was doing stuff while he wasn't. So now we either decide who is doing what (and if someone finished their tasks early they're generally kind enough to help the other person out), or we don't sit until we can both sit.


This is amazing. More women should do this. Men can't argue it's unfair, or that their wives are lazy, because then they'd be calling themselves lazy.


NP. I don't want him to do stuff when I'm doing stuff. I want him to do his share of stuff (note that I did not say "help," because grown adults doing what needs to be done are not helping anyone) without being told.

I have yet to come up with a way of asking, "Do you think the stuff I handle makes your life easier? Do you think the reverse is true? What does that tell you about our relationship and my probable happiness?"

Anonymous
Post 10/18/2021 09:39     Subject: My DH does not understand what it's like to be the primary parent
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I don’t know why y’all marry these men.


When I married him, he was a self-sufficient adult who owned a home, was great at his job, planned dates for us, did his own laundry, etc. I never expected to be in this situation, and even when we had one kid he was pretty good. But something about the second kid... he just checks out a lot now. I have no idea what red flags I supposedly missed. I don't know what I could have done to prevent this beyond aggressively forcing him to take on childcare duties when they were babies. Should I have forced him to take a solo paternity leave, would that have helped? But then how do you even do that, it was not an option for us.

I think he hit a limit on parenting and we didn't know what that limit was going to be until we exceeded it. He was doing fine up until then.


DP, so I didn't write the first post. How is your relationship between you and your husband? To me, when I explain to my husband that I feel like I'm drowning or that I'm stressed out, he cares and reacts accordingly because he loves me. (And I do the same for him). It often requires a conversation outside the moment when you sit down and tell him how you feel.

My husband used to sit down on the couch in our living room (which is connected to our kitchen) when I was doing something in there because it looked like I was handling everything and didn't need his help. However, I was simultaneously emptying the dishwasher, making dinner, packing lunches, and dealing with the kids' homework. But because no one was screaming, he thought it was ok. Then I started sitting down on the couch with him. Every time he sat, I sat. I basically refused to do any work if he wasn't doing any (we both work full-time jobs, so this is just related to house/child work). He then realized how unfair it was that I was doing stuff while he wasn't. So now we either decide who is doing what (and if someone finished their tasks early they're generally kind enough to help the other person out), or we don't sit until we can both sit.


This is amazing. More women should do this. Men can't argue it's unfair, or that their wives are lazy, because then they'd be calling themselves lazy.
Anonymous
Post 10/18/2021 09:34     Subject: My DH does not understand what it's like to be the primary parent
I am the default parent in that assuming no one has said anything different, I’m the one who handles anything that comes up. But my husband is perfectly capable of doing everything I do except nursing, and if I say “hey I need some time to myself” whether for household work or just to recharge, he will dive in and take over. If we’re both around I often do have to specifically delegate (“hey can you please get socks for the toddler”) but I think that’s just being efficient.

But here’s the thing — he KNOWS what a burden it is to be the default, because that’s his job at work. In the same way that I “own” the house, he “owns” his company. He’s the one who gets a message halfway through an important sales call saying Fred was in a car accident and won’t make it in so all Fred’s work needs to be reshuffled to other people, or the lease on the new office fell through, or or or… Some days he comes home saying he didn’t get anything in his to do list done because the whole thing was putting out fires. So he really does get it, and frequently tells me he appreciates it that I do all this stuff at home because just juggling everything with the constant interruptions is WORK.
Anonymous
Post 10/18/2021 09:27     Subject: My DH does not understand what it's like to be the primary parent
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I don’t know why y’all marry these men.


When I married him, he was a self-sufficient adult who owned a home, was great at his job, planned dates for us, did his own laundry, etc. I never expected to be in this situation, and even when we had one kid he was pretty good. But something about the second kid... he just checks out a lot now. I have no idea what red flags I supposedly missed. I don't know what I could have done to prevent this beyond aggressively forcing him to take on childcare duties when they were babies. Should I have forced him to take a solo paternity leave, would that have helped? But then how do you even do that, it was not an option for us.

I think he hit a limit on parenting and we didn't know what that limit was going to be until we exceeded it. He was doing fine up until then.


DP, so I didn't write the first post. How is your relationship between you and your husband? To me, when I explain to my husband that I feel like I'm drowning or that I'm stressed out, he cares and reacts accordingly because he loves me. (And I do the same for him). It often requires a conversation outside the moment when you sit down and tell him how you feel.

My husband used to sit down on the couch in our living room (which is connected to our kitchen) when I was doing something in there because it looked like I was handling everything and didn't need his help. However, I was simultaneously emptying the dishwasher, making dinner, packing lunches, and dealing with the kids' homework. But because no one was screaming, he thought it was ok. Then I started sitting down on the couch with him. Every time he sat, I sat. I basically refused to do any work if he wasn't doing any (we both work full-time jobs, so this is just related to house/child work). He then realized how unfair it was that I was doing stuff while he wasn't. So now we either decide who is doing what (and if someone finished their tasks early they're generally kind enough to help the other person out), or we don't sit until we can both sit.


OMG this is like me and my DH. I guess I need to follow your example. I've even verbally pointed it out to him "I am standing here cooking and making tomorrow's lunches and you are sitting down doing nothing" and he still doesn't seem to get it or at least doesn't know what to do to help.
Anonymous
Post 10/18/2021 09:22     Subject: My DH does not understand what it's like to be the primary parent
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Do you have more than one child? I mean besides your spouse?


Yes, we have two (plus DH, haha). A big part of the problem is that they will both come to me and get annoyed while I'm helping the other one. Like I'll be helping Kid 1 with something and Kid 2 will start just harassing me about needing something else, and in the meantime my DH is off in the background, seemingly oblivious to this. And he doesn't seem to get that being harassed by Kid 2 while I'm trying to finish something with Kid 1 is stressful! It makes me feel a bit crazed.

He wants me to always come to him directly when this happens and make a custom request ("I am helping Larlo with this stuck zipper but Larla can't reach the peanut butter, can you help her with that?") and I feel like he should just be a little more in tune to things that are happening right around him and consider just saying "Hey Larla, Mom's in the middle of something -- can I help you?"

Instead what will happen is I'll ask him to do it, he'll act aggrieved at the interruption, and then two minutes later when I've finally dealt with Kid 1's zipper, DH will pop his head and say "Do you know where the peanut butter is, I can't find it."

Aaaaaaaaargh. I cannot.


YESSSSS. I feel this DEEP in my soul. And part of the problem is of course he doesn't know where the peanut butter is because you are the one shopping and putting groceries away. For me, this happens ALL THE TIME. And not with peanut butter, because obviously that is something that can have a set place in the pantry, but with a million other things: sports uniforms, he has no idea if they are clean or dirty or unwashed or just unfolded because laundry is 100% me. If I am out at lunchtime, than more likely than not kids will not have eaten lunch when I come back at 2pm. DH's "rest" time is paramount and must not be disturbed but I can be disturbed at any time, during any task. I don't know what the solution is.


Umm, have your husband do more tasks. I can happily live on cheese and crackers. My husband prefers meals. If he didn't participate in the grocery shopping, putting away, and cooking, I would just buy some cheese and crackers for myself and let him deal with himself and the kids for a week. Same with laundry. Do yours and not his. I happen to do 100% of the laundry in our house, but that's because my husband does 100% of anything car or house related. Some things (like kids) we divide 50/50, others we assign fully to one person. During the beginning of COVID, when we didn't have our cleaners come, he's the one who cleaned the house top to bottom every week. There was literally no reason that I should have done it over him.
Anonymous
Post 10/18/2021 09:16     Subject: My DH does not understand what it's like to be the primary parent
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I don’t know why y’all marry these men.


When I married him, he was a self-sufficient adult who owned a home, was great at his job, planned dates for us, did his own laundry, etc. I never expected to be in this situation, and even when we had one kid he was pretty good. But something about the second kid... he just checks out a lot now. I have no idea what red flags I supposedly missed. I don't know what I could have done to prevent this beyond aggressively forcing him to take on childcare duties when they were babies. Should I have forced him to take a solo paternity leave, would that have helped? But then how do you even do that, it was not an option for us.

I think he hit a limit on parenting and we didn't know what that limit was going to be until we exceeded it. He was doing fine up until then.


DP, so I didn't write the first post. How is your relationship between you and your husband? To me, when I explain to my husband that I feel like I'm drowning or that I'm stressed out, he cares and reacts accordingly because he loves me. (And I do the same for him). It often requires a conversation outside the moment when you sit down and tell him how you feel.

My husband used to sit down on the couch in our living room (which is connected to our kitchen) when I was doing something in there because it looked like I was handling everything and didn't need his help. However, I was simultaneously emptying the dishwasher, making dinner, packing lunches, and dealing with the kids' homework. But because no one was screaming, he thought it was ok. Then I started sitting down on the couch with him. Every time he sat, I sat. I basically refused to do any work if he wasn't doing any (we both work full-time jobs, so this is just related to house/child work). He then realized how unfair it was that I was doing stuff while he wasn't. So now we either decide who is doing what (and if someone finished their tasks early they're generally kind enough to help the other person out), or we don't sit until we can both sit.
Anonymous
Post 10/18/2021 09:12     Subject: Re:My DH does not understand what it's like to be the primary parent
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Same. It took about ten years of re-direction to make the tiniest, littlest dent in the older kid only. It drives me bonkers. Even the pets come to me for their needs. All of them walk right by my husband. And part of the problem is the same where he says “In a minute” and then drags it out and upsets them and makes them feel like they can’t rely on him. I have never found a solution to this.


OP here and this made me laugh because yes! Same here. A persistent problem I have is these kind of "rolling needs". One of my kids will need help with something and I'll help. Then another kid will be frustrated because they had to wait while I helped the first kid to ask me a question (even though I will have said "I'm busy, go as dad"). So then I'm responding to an annoyed kid. Even if I can get the annoyed kid to go get dad to help, it's a second distraction. Then just as I'm settling back into something, my DH will show up with a question (almost certainly pertaining to the annoyed kid's issue, why can't he just solve these problems on his own). Then when I finally get everyone to leave me alone, the cat will start eating plastic, which is what he does when he needs food/attention/his litter box cleaned. Every time.

This pattern happens at least 10 times a day on the weekend. Today I'm trying to do our calendar for November/December and figure out holiday travel, visits with my parents and my MIL, etc., and I just feel crazy because I have had so little time to actually do this task. It's almost 1:30 in the afternoon and I feel like all I've accomplished today is putting out everyone else's fires. My DH, however, has successfully leveled up twice on whatever stupid video game he is playing. Sigh.


Since you know the dynamic in your house, you should definitely do this kind of task at a Starbucks or Panera or local diner or somewhere that you can sit and enjoy the task. Seriously, just leave the house!