Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Serious question- why do we even have a debt ceiling? It's been raised multiple times now. Clearly nobody takes it seriously as far as spending is concerned, so maybe they should just get rid of it altogether?

There’s no debt ceiling in the Constitution, it’s statutory. Congress established the debt ceiling after WWI to encourage fiscal discipline. It didn’t work.

It wasn't done for fiscal discipline reasons. It was done to make it easier to pay.

How does establishing a debt ceiling make it easier to pay? It makes it harder to pay.

Back in the day there needed to be a vote to authorize each tranche of treasuries. The debt ceiling allowed Treasury to sell them on their own.

Wrong. The debt ceiling was meant to enforce fiscal discipline.

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/d/debt-ceiling.asp

Investopedia is good for a lot of things. Century old historical intent is not one. It's wrong.

https://historynewsnetwork.org/article/181258

History News Network is not good for many things at all.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_debt_ceiling

"Prior to 1917, the United States had no debt ceiling. Congress either authorized specific loans or allowed Treasury to issue certain debt instruments and individual debt issues for specific purposes."

“Before the debt ceiling was created, Congress had free reign over the country’s finances. In 1917, the debt ceiling was created during World War I to hold the federal government fiscally responsible.”

That's your investopwsia statement. It's also an unsupported conjecture. My quote was from YOUR wikipedia entry and is a simple statement of fact.

Prior to the debt ceiling Congress authorized each specific tranche of debt. After the debt ceiling Treasury was allowed to issue debt as needed up to a certain dollar amount. If you look further, the initial debt issued under the new authority was only 1/3 of the authorized amount. The logic is inescapble. The debt ceiling was originally created to make the issuanxe of debt less cumbersome and easier. This makes complete sense since it was done in 1917, during a World War!, a time at which it would be insanely stupid to artificially limit spending.

You’re cherry picking. This is what Wikipedia says:

“Prior to 1917, the United States had no debt ceiling. Congress either authorized specific loans or allowed Treasury to issue certain debt instruments and individual debt instruments for specific purposes. Sometimes Congress gave Treasury discretion over which type of debt would be issued. The United States first instituted a statutory debt limit with the Secondary Liberty Bond Act of 1917. This legislation set limits on the aggregate amount of debt that could be accumulated through individual categories of debt (such as bonds and bills). In 1939, Congress instituted the first limit on total accumulated debt over all kinds of instruments.”

That's exactly what I said. It was a means of giving Treasury discretion and not having to vote every single time.

You’re completely missing the point. The debt ceiling was meant to reign in Congress, not Treasury.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Serious question- why do we even have a debt ceiling? It's been raised multiple times now. Clearly nobody takes it seriously as far as spending is concerned, so maybe they should just get rid of it altogether?

There’s no debt ceiling in the Constitution, it’s statutory. Congress established the debt ceiling after WWI to encourage fiscal discipline. It didn’t work.

It wasn't done for fiscal discipline reasons. It was done to make it easier to pay.

How does establishing a debt ceiling make it easier to pay? It makes it harder to pay.

Back in the day there needed to be a vote to authorize each tranche of treasuries. The debt ceiling allowed Treasury to sell them on their own.

Wrong. The debt ceiling was meant to enforce fiscal discipline.

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/d/debt-ceiling.asp

Investopedia is good for a lot of things. Century old historical intent is not one. It's wrong.

https://historynewsnetwork.org/article/181258

History News Network is not good for many things at all.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_debt_ceiling

"Prior to 1917, the United States had no debt ceiling. Congress either authorized specific loans or allowed Treasury to issue certain debt instruments and individual debt issues for specific purposes."

“Before the debt ceiling was created, Congress had free reign over the country’s finances. In 1917, the debt ceiling was created during World War I to hold the federal government fiscally responsible.”

That's your investopwsia statement. It's also an unsupported conjecture. My quote was from YOUR wikipedia entry and is a simple statement of fact.

Prior to the debt ceiling Congress authorized each specific tranche of debt. After the debt ceiling Treasury was allowed to issue debt as needed up to a certain dollar amount. If you look further, the initial debt issued under the new authority was only 1/3 of the authorized amount. The logic is inescapble. The debt ceiling was originally created to make the issuanxe of debt less cumbersome and easier. This makes complete sense since it was done in 1917, during a World War!, a time at which it would be insanely stupid to artificially limit spending.

You’re cherry picking. This is what Wikipedia says:

“Prior to 1917, the United States had no debt ceiling. Congress either authorized specific loans or allowed Treasury to issue certain debt instruments and individual debt instruments for specific purposes. Sometimes Congress gave Treasury discretion over which type of debt would be issued. The United States first instituted a statutory debt limit with the Secondary Liberty Bond Act of 1917. This legislation set limits on the aggregate amount of debt that could be accumulated through individual categories of debt (such as bonds and bills). In 1939, Congress instituted the first limit on total accumulated debt over all kinds of instruments.”

That's exactly what I said. It was a means of giving Treasury discretion and not having to vote every single time.

McConnell and the rest of the GOP trot this out every time there's a Dem Congress. They play on their dumbass base's belief that the federal budget operates just like a household budget.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Serious question- why do we even have a debt ceiling? It's been raised multiple times now. Clearly nobody takes it seriously as far as spending is concerned, so maybe they should just get rid of it altogether?

There’s no debt ceiling in the Constitution, it’s statutory. Congress established the debt ceiling after WWI to encourage fiscal discipline. It didn’t work.

It wasn't done for fiscal discipline reasons. It was done to make it easier to pay.

How does establishing a debt ceiling make it easier to pay? It makes it harder to pay.

Back in the day there needed to be a vote to authorize each tranche of treasuries. The debt ceiling allowed Treasury to sell them on their own.

Wrong. The debt ceiling was meant to enforce fiscal discipline.

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/d/debt-ceiling.asp

Investopedia is good for a lot of things. Century old historical intent is not one. It's wrong.

https://historynewsnetwork.org/article/181258

History News Network is not good for many things at all.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_debt_ceiling

"Prior to 1917, the United States had no debt ceiling. Congress either authorized specific loans or allowed Treasury to issue certain debt instruments and individual debt issues for specific purposes."

“Before the debt ceiling was created, Congress had free reign over the country’s finances. In 1917, the debt ceiling was created during World War I to hold the federal government fiscally responsible.”

That's your investopwsia statement. It's also an unsupported conjecture. My quote was from YOUR wikipedia entry and is a simple statement of fact.

Prior to the debt ceiling Congress authorized each specific tranche of debt. After the debt ceiling Treasury was allowed to issue debt as needed up to a certain dollar amount. If you look further, the initial debt issued under the new authority was only 1/3 of the authorized amount. The logic is inescapble. The debt ceiling was originally created to make the issuanxe of debt less cumbersome and easier. This makes complete sense since it was done in 1917, during a World War!, a time at which it would be insanely stupid to artificially limit spending.

You’re cherry picking. This is what Wikipedia says:

“Prior to 1917, the United States had no debt ceiling. Congress either authorized specific loans or allowed Treasury to issue certain debt instruments and individual debt instruments for specific purposes. Sometimes Congress gave Treasury discretion over which type of debt would be issued. The United States first instituted a statutory debt limit with the Secondary Liberty Bond Act of 1917. This legislation set limits on the aggregate amount of debt that could be accumulated through individual categories of debt (such as bonds and bills). In 1939, Congress instituted the first limit on total accumulated debt over all kinds of instruments.”

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Serious question- why do we even have a debt ceiling? It's been raised multiple times now. Clearly nobody takes it seriously as far as spending is concerned, so maybe they should just get rid of it altogether?

There’s no debt ceiling in the Constitution, it’s statutory. Congress established the debt ceiling after WWI to encourage fiscal discipline. It didn’t work.

It wasn't done for fiscal discipline reasons. It was done to make it easier to pay.

How does establishing a debt ceiling make it easier to pay? It makes it harder to pay.

Back in the day there needed to be a vote to authorize each tranche of treasuries. The debt ceiling allowed Treasury to sell them on their own.

Wrong. The debt ceiling was meant to enforce fiscal discipline.

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/d/debt-ceiling.asp

Investopedia is good for a lot of things. Century old historical intent is not one. It's wrong.

https://historynewsnetwork.org/article/181258

History News Network is not good for many things at all.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_debt_ceiling

"Prior to 1917, the United States had no debt ceiling. Congress either authorized specific loans or allowed Treasury to issue certain debt instruments and individual debt issues for specific purposes."

“Before the debt ceiling was created, Congress had free reign over the country’s finances. In 1917, the debt ceiling was created during World War I to hold the federal government fiscally responsible.”

That's your investopwsia statement. It's also an unsupported conjecture. My quote was from YOUR wikipedia entry and is a simple statement of fact.

Prior to the debt ceiling Congress authorized each specific tranche of debt. After the debt ceiling Treasury was allowed to issue debt as needed up to a certain dollar amount. If you look further, the initial debt issued under the new authority was only 1/3 of the authorized amount. The logic is inescapble. The debt ceiling was originally created to make the issuanxe of debt less cumbersome and easier. This makes complete sense since it was done in 1917, during a World War!, a time at which it would be insanely stupid to artificially limit spending.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Serious question- why do we even have a debt ceiling? It's been raised multiple times now. Clearly nobody takes it seriously as far as spending is concerned, so maybe they should just get rid of it altogether?

There’s no debt ceiling in the Constitution, it’s statutory. Congress established the debt ceiling after WWI to encourage fiscal discipline. It didn’t work.

It wasn't done for fiscal discipline reasons. It was done to make it easier to pay.

How does establishing a debt ceiling make it easier to pay? It makes it harder to pay.

Back in the day there needed to be a vote to authorize each tranche of treasuries. The debt ceiling allowed Treasury to sell them on their own.

Wrong. The debt ceiling was meant to enforce fiscal discipline.

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/d/debt-ceiling.asp

Investopedia is good for a lot of things. Century old historical intent is not one. It's wrong.

https://historynewsnetwork.org/article/181258

History News Network is not good for many things at all.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_debt_ceiling

"Prior to 1917, the United States had no debt ceiling. Congress either authorized specific loans or allowed Treasury to issue certain debt instruments and individual debt issues for specific purposes."

“Before the debt ceiling was created, Congress had free reign over the country’s finances. In 1917, the debt ceiling was created during World War I to hold the federal government fiscally responsible.”

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Democrats put themselves in the current situation. I bet the GOP would be willing to raise the debt ceiling if Democrats uncoupled the two spending bills, and we're willing to negotiate on the larger one. If they did, then the Democrats could neutralize the Progressive wing of their own party. When it comes to 2022 and 2024, do you really think Progressives are going to stay home or vote GOP?

1) the dems sent a clean, uncoupled bill that the GOP filibustered
2) the spending bills are not coupled as it is
3) The GOP rammed the 2017 tax cuts through without negotiating. Why is there a condition that the Dems negotiate here?

+1
I want to know what kind of weird hynoptic spell McConnell has people under that he lies and people are willing to pretend it’s the truth.

+2

I hope you realize nobody, not even republicans, like McConnell. The maga crowd is convinced he stole his seat, believe it or not.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Serious question- why do we even have a debt ceiling? It's been raised multiple times now. Clearly nobody takes it seriously as far as spending is concerned, so maybe they should just get rid of it altogether?

There’s no debt ceiling in the Constitution, it’s statutory. Congress established the debt ceiling after WWI to encourage fiscal discipline. It didn’t work.

It wasn't done for fiscal discipline reasons. It was done to make it easier to pay.

How does establishing a debt ceiling make it easier to pay? It makes it harder to pay.

Back in the day there needed to be a vote to authorize each tranche of treasuries. The debt ceiling allowed Treasury to sell them on their own.

Wrong. The debt ceiling was meant to enforce fiscal discipline.

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/d/debt-ceiling.asp

Investopedia is good for a lot of things. Century old historical intent is not one. It's wrong.

https://historynewsnetwork.org/article/181258

History News Network is not good for many things at all.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_debt_ceiling

"Prior to 1917, the United States had no debt ceiling. Congress either authorized specific loans or allowed Treasury to issue certain debt instruments and individual debt issues for specific purposes."

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Serious question- why do we even have a debt ceiling? It's been raised multiple times now. Clearly nobody takes it seriously as far as spending is concerned, so maybe they should just get rid of it altogether?

There’s no debt ceiling in the Constitution, it’s statutory. Congress established the debt ceiling after WWI to encourage fiscal discipline. It didn’t work.

It wasn't done for fiscal discipline reasons. It was done to make it easier to pay.

How does establishing a debt ceiling make it easier to pay? It makes it harder to pay.

Back in the day there needed to be a vote to authorize each tranche of treasuries. The debt ceiling allowed Treasury to sell them on their own.

Wrong. The debt ceiling was meant to enforce fiscal discipline.

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/d/debt-ceiling.asp

Investopedia is good for a lot of things. Century old historical intent is not one. It's wrong.

https://historynewsnetwork.org/article/181258

History News Network is not good for many things at all.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_debt_ceiling

three times under Trump, the GOP supported the same exact bill they are opposing now.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Democrats put themselves in the current situation. I bet the GOP would be willing to raise the debt ceiling if Democrats uncoupled the two spending bills, and we're willing to negotiate on the larger one. If they did, then the Democrats could neutralize the Progressive wing of their own party. When it comes to 2022 and 2024, do you really think Progressives are going to stay home or vote GOP?

1) the dems sent a clean, uncoupled bill that the GOP filibustered
2) the spending bills are not coupled as it is
3) The GOP rammed the 2017 tax cuts through without negotiating. Why is there a condition that the Dems negotiate here?

+1
I want to know what kind of weird hynoptic spell McConnell has people under that he lies and people are willing to pretend it’s the truth.

+2

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Democrats put themselves in the current situation. I bet the GOP would be willing to raise the debt ceiling if Democrats uncoupled the two spending bills, and we're willing to negotiate on the larger one. If they did, then the Democrats could neutralize the Progressive wing of their own party. When it comes to 2022 and 2024, do you really think Progressives are going to stay home or vote GOP?

1) the dems sent a clean, uncoupled bill that the GOP filibustered
2) the spending bills are not coupled as it is
3) The GOP rammed the 2017 tax cuts through without negotiating. Why is there a condition that the Dems negotiate here?

+1
I want to know what kind of weird hynoptic spell McConnell has people under that he lies and people are willing to pretend it’s the truth.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Serious question- why do we even have a debt ceiling? It's been raised multiple times now. Clearly nobody takes it seriously as far as spending is concerned, so maybe they should just get rid of it altogether?

There’s no debt ceiling in the Constitution, it’s statutory. Congress established the debt ceiling after WWI to encourage fiscal discipline. It didn’t work.

It wasn't done for fiscal discipline reasons. It was done to make it easier to pay.

How does establishing a debt ceiling make it easier to pay? It makes it harder to pay.

Back in the day there needed to be a vote to authorize each tranche of treasuries. The debt ceiling allowed Treasury to sell them on their own.

Wrong. The debt ceiling was meant to enforce fiscal discipline.

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/d/debt-ceiling.asp

Investopedia is good for a lot of things. Century old historical intent is not one. It's wrong.

https://historynewsnetwork.org/article/181258

Anonymous wrote:The Dems will use reconciliation to raise the debt ceiling and avoid default, right?

They should just do it and add in all the spending they want including the 3 Trillion for infrastructure. If Republicans don't want to play ball then they don't have to get anything for their states in the bill. Obviously a giant bribe will have to be made to WV but that's fine. They should also remove the debt ceiling in the bill so that this is never an issue again. The debt ceiling is an artificial thing creating in the 1900's. Prior to that, any spending that there wasn't enough revenue for was automatically borrowed because there was no fake limit.

Or worst case scenario, Biden can go back to the platinum coin playbook. During the Obama years I saw people saying we should mint a two trillion dollar platinum coin. I just googled it and now they're saying one trillion. If I were President and we were about to default, I'd go for 10 trillion. You're already breaking with tradition so F it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Serious question- why do we even have a debt ceiling? It's been raised multiple times now. Clearly nobody takes it seriously as far as spending is concerned, so maybe they should just get rid of it altogether?

There’s no debt ceiling in the Constitution, it’s statutory. Congress established the debt ceiling after WWI to encourage fiscal discipline. It didn’t work.

It wasn't done for fiscal discipline reasons. It was done to make it easier to pay.

How does establishing a debt ceiling make it easier to pay? It makes it harder to pay.

Back in the day there needed to be a vote to authorize each tranche of treasuries. The debt ceiling allowed Treasury to sell them on their own.

Wrong. The debt ceiling was meant to enforce fiscal discipline.

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/d/debt-ceiling.asp