Anonymous wrote:
Huh. My daughter (who has ADHD) was recently forced to apologize to a boy who also has some issues because he got so frustrated when she was grading his paper (they trade papers to grade in class) that she marked something that was wrong as wrong. He got so angry he called her a b**ch and SHE had to apologize to him for frustrating him. His fake ass apology to her was along the lines of "I'm sorry you made me mad but here's all the things I don't like about you." Basically he was sorry that she made him do it. And the counselor who had him write the letter was patting herself on the back for managing this so well. So glad she's no longer at the school.

ugh. wrong in so many ways.

he should have had an immediate consequence. she shouldn’t have had to do anything. after he calmed down the counselor could have discussed and encouraged an apology but never forced it. I swear these dumb counselors.

If it's FORCED, it is not an apology.

Anonymous wrote:I’ve got a melter-downer. I think apologies are important when aggression or property destruction is involved. However it has to be part of an overall behavioral plan. I don’t like it when teachers seem fixated on the apology, and especially if they create more dysregulation by getting in a standoff about forcing an apology in the moment. I don’t like forcing the kid to humiliate themselves by apologizing to the whole class. The apology should go to people directly affected.

Also, it seems to be true that teachers want to force apologies out of the SN kids more than the NT kids. For whatever reason they seem to think they need to make more of a show out of it. This can be really bad because not only is it discrimination but it can also create a downward spiral of behavior.

This. Some teachers truly seem to believe that some kids meltdown more because, I don't know, they haven't been yelled at enough. So they come down harder on these kids and then when the kids respond by melting down more, they view this as evidence that this is a "bad kid" who has no respect, instead of as an indictment of their disciplinary approach, which doesn't work.

It's especially frustrating when, as a parent, you've spent years figuring out what works and what doesn't and they just do. not. care. I'm tentatively optimistic this year because after a bad year last year with a super rigid teacher who just wrote my kid off mid-year and didn't even seem receptive to discussing another approach, this year we seem to have gotten a teacher who gets that the best way to teach a rigid kid to be more flexible is to... be flexible. That's pretty anathema to how some teachers run their classrooms though. We're considering moving schools if we can find one with a more flexible approach to behavioral issues (not more lenient, we really want our kid to learn emotional regulation, we just don't think a super rigid punishment-based system is going to get her there) just because I don't want to play roulette with teacher assignments every year. It's two steps forward one step back.

Huh. My daughter (who has ADHD) was recently forced to apologize to a boy who also has some issues because he got so frustrated when she was grading his paper (they trade papers to grade in class) that she marked something that was wrong as wrong. He got so angry he called her a b**ch and SHE had to apologize to him for frustrating him. His fake ass apology to her was along the lines of "I'm sorry you made me mad but here's all the things I don't like about you." Basically he was sorry that she made him do it. And the counselor who had him write the letter was patting herself on the back for managing this so well. So glad she's no longer at the school.

Anonymous wrote:Absolutely not—if an individual got hurt or something, sure. But the class? No way! If the kid could help it, he would have. To even suggest this is pretty willful ignorance about ADHD.

My anxious kids have been very rattled by some of their classmates meltdowns. No one has to be physically hurt to be badly impacted. My kid with ASD has a flash pass to use when a meltdown is coming on. It should be in the 504 or IEP of any student with SN who is so dysregulated that it is impacting others. A lot of schools have rooms where the child can go to calm down through sensory support.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t see anything wrong with that.

Me neither. The opposite viewpoint is why we have a generation of adults that find an excuse for every misbehavior and nothing is ever their fault. But at least they don't feel "shame".

OMG, you clearly know nothing about early childhood education, ADHD, ASD.

Public shaming is completely inappropriate but especially for a child who has ADHD.

This thread is two years old. (Although I still remember my outrage when I read it.)

I’ve got a melter-downer. I think apologies are important when aggression or property destruction is involved. However it has to be part of an overall behavioral plan. I don’t like it when teachers seem fixated on the apology, and especially if they create more dysregulation by getting in a standoff about forcing an apology in the moment. I don’t like forcing the kid to humiliate themselves by apologizing to the whole class. The apology should go to people directly affected.

Also, it seems to be true that teachers want to force apologies out of the SN kids more than the NT kids. For whatever reason they seem to think they need to make more of a show out of it. This can be really bad because not only is it discrimination but it can also create a downward spiral of behavior.

Anonymous wrote:I disagree that OP’s kid felt “forced” to apologize or that she felt shamed. Her perspective matters a lot, and if she didn’t feel shamed then why get so upset? I have an ADHD kid who loses it sometimes (amen to age 9 being hard!!), and I would have no problem with this if it were done right. And the kids feeling no shame would be a big sign it was.

When my kid loses it, he feels powerless. But when he apologizes, it is a way for him to feel in control again bc he knows what to do to make it better.

Plus 1000

Anonymous wrote:My child has ADHD and has had pull outs with other kids with ADHD for a few years. I can tell you when this approach works and when it does not work.

When a classmate impulsively ripped up another child's work out of frustration, that child apologized. When my child clumsily ran around the room and knocked over another child's water bottle, my child verbally apologized to that girl and cleaned up the spill. He followed up with a written apology and offered to purchase a new one and replace whatever drink was inside. This is a 3rd grader so

When a different classmate had a meltdown because he is dyslexic and got frustrated by an assignment it would be incredibly counterproductive to have him apologize to anyone much less the whole class. He did not do that on purpose. It was humiliating enough.

Thank you for articulating this so well. I agree. My youngest DS (ADHD/LD/Anxiety) had meltdowns throughout most of ES - until the middle of 4th grade. It was mostly a manifestation of untreated/unmanaged anxiety. Youngest DS's anxiety looked very different than his older brother's so we missed it. (I'll also say that my 2nd DC also had it and we missed it until 9th grade because it, too, manifested differently). Youngest DS's anxiety was aggravated by insufficient classroom support - he never had meltdowns in the special ed setting.

I would be livid if DS were required to apologize for a meltdown that was a result of his frustration, was self-directed and didn't touch another student. It would, absolutely, be making him apologize for his disability. Although I've got my issues with FCPS, his teachers (general ed/special ed) were amazing as were the schools psychologist and counselors. Understanding the source of the frustration, helping DS learn to identify his triggers and when he getting spun up were critical - as was getting him on anxiety medication and appropriate classroom supports. Once those were in place, he never had another meltdown. It was like night/day.

Finally, I'll say that it wasn't just the anxiety that caused the meltdown. It is classic ADHD to struggle with emotional regulation. My DH with ADHD is in his 50s and he will still struggle with it when he's caught up in the moment. Youngest DS is now in HS, has friends, is very well liked and doing well in school. He is also still prone to getting overwhelmed and I suspect he, like DH, will have to practice emotional regulation techniques the rest of his life.

I disagree that OP’s kid felt “forced” to apologize or that she felt shamed. Her perspective matters a lot, and if she didn’t feel shamed then why get so upset? I have an ADHD kid who loses it sometimes (amen to age 9 being hard!!), and I would have no problem with this if it were done right. And the kids feeling no shame would be a big sign it was.

When my kid loses it, he feels powerless. But when he apologizes, it is a way for him to feel in control again bc he knows what to do to make it better.

Anonymous wrote:No! Public shaming … FFS.

+1

I think that the teacher should apologise to the student in front of the class for their lack of awareness and knowledge of ADHD and their inability to provide an accessible classroom environment.
After they apologise for the harm they have done, they should go and get educated about how to deal with diversity.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Regarding rejection sensitivity and ADHD, I just want to note that an apology that is accepted by the class and teacher, where the child felt understood and forgiven for losing control, could actually be GOOD for RS. One hallmark of RS is the kind of “everyone hates me, I have no friends” catastrophizing, and discussing something like an outburst, seeing if the child wants apologize, and then having the other kids listen and accept can help short circuit that kind of catastrophizing by replacing it with facts. Instead of “everyone hates me”, it’s “some people were upset when I ripped up my paper the other day, but we talked about dealing with frustration and I apologized and Ms. Larla talked about how we all get frustrated and we all shared stuff we can do when we’re frustrated.”

Like there is a pro-social way to fo this that not only doesn’t Shane but builds bonds and helps contextualuze it for the child as a mistake we can all move on from. I think people are envisioning a very shaming, rigid, forced apology situation and I don’t personally know any teachers who would handle it that way. It doesn’t seem to be what OP’s daughter describes either.

Anyway, talking things through and showing an ADHD child that people can be upset about an isolated incident but forgive and offer understanding can be preferable to handling the whole thing privately away from the rest of the class. Peer judgment is critical at this age and transparency and communication can help combat gossip and exclusion, too.

except there is no transparency unless the whole class is informed the child has ADHD and possibly autism. I’m just really astounded at the people who insist this is appropriate.

Uh, I would not tell a class of 9 year olds that a child might have ASD. I can’t believe anyone thinks sharing speculative diagnoses are a good idea. She hasn’t even been screened for it! I could see sharing the ADHD diagnosis if the child decided she wanted to, but sharing it in her behalf right after an outburst actually seems a lot more shaming to me than asking her to apologize. A diagnosis is nothing to be shamed or embarrassed by, of course, but it us personal info and it should be in the child’s control when it comes to her peers, especially at 9 or older.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t see anything wrong with that.

So if a kid on chemo throws up in the class, do they have to apologize for disrupting the class?

Kids throw up in class all the time. Chemo or not. It’s not usual for kids to tear up paper and yell during class. And I apologized just two days ago for vomiting in public after chemo.

So did a person in authority over you make you feel compelled to publicly apologize in front of a large group of people? That's the issue here.

Nope, I did it out of respect for the people around me.

If you can’t tell the difference between being an NT adult and apologizing because of throwing up due to chemo, and a nine year old ADHD/ASD child forced to apologize to the entire class for a (minor) meltdown possibly triggered by a badly implemented IEP … I dunno what to tell you.

PS you shouldn’t have apologized for throwing up either. You had CHEMO. Really it’s a telling example though- some people (generally women) have a near phobia level aversion to making any public disruption, which they can project onto other people as well. You don’t have to apologize for living.