Anonymous
Post 01/11/2015 21:31     Subject: terrorist attack in Paris
Anonymous wrote:Exposing genitalia is banned universally for self-evidente reasons. Covering one's face can be debated for security reasons -- although suche a ban didn't impede the attacks in Paris, 9/11, and other countless acts of violence -- but that's not the debate France had when the ban was imposed.

The government shouldn't determine a dressential code based on "values."


The French values of liberte, egalite, and fraternite are pretty much incompatible with the niqab. I can see why they would ban it, and I can see why we wouldn't in this country.
Anonymous
Post 01/11/2015 21:31     Subject: terrorist attack in Paris
An interesting anecdote: in some elementary, middle, and high schools, some students (a small minority) didn't respect the minute of silence last week. The reason they gave? Various versions of "They offended the prophet and suffered the consequences." I wonder what they are hearing at home...

The Toulouse killings a couple of years ago were done by a French born man, like the killings last week.

I am of course aware that it's not comparable, but it am reminded of a friendly soccer match between France and Algeria in Paris about 10 years ago. Lots of French kids of North African heritage in the stadium booed loudly the Marseillaise... The booing was extremely loud.

France has a problem.
Anonymous
Post 01/11/2015 21:29     Subject: terrorist attack in Paris
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Let me get that straight: An uncovered woman is against social customs inside the Islamic world, so we must respect that.

Yet a woman who has her face covered is against social customs everywhere outside of the Islamic world yet we cannot possibly respect that?

Logic fail.

It is - if you want to be exactly like Saudi Arabia. You both think it's OK to ban something citing "social customs."


So, you are saying we should be like the Saudis?

No, I'm saying that those who support the ban on niqabs in France citing "social customs" are no different from Al-Saud, and should stop pretending that they are.


do you support the ban on polygamy in the US? if so, on what ground?



NP here. Not suggesting that polygamy should be legalized, but I find it amusing that polygamy is banned but extramarital affair, threesome and swinger clubs are allowed all over the US.
Anonymous
Post 01/11/2015 21:26     Subject: terrorist attack in Paris
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Let me get that straight: An uncovered woman is against social customs inside the Islamic world, so we must respect that.

Yet a woman who has her face covered is against social customs everywhere outside of the Islamic world yet we cannot possibly respect that?

Logic fail.


You are not supporting a woman's right to be equal. You're supporting a man's need to continue to oppress and brainwash women through the use of religion (and culture).

Women should be free to express who they are. By DENYING them the privilege of wearing a skirt that hits the knee or by showing off her new hairstyle or by wearing pants with a funky pair of boots, you're not supporting her rights. You're simply too stupid to see the root of the issue - and it's patriarchy married to religion.

If I want, I can wear a maxi skirt and a sweater one day and a mini skirt and tights the next. It's my choice to determine what I want to put on my body. No man - no religion - is telling me what I must wear.

know why? b/c I fucking have a brain that hasn't been shaped to believe that Allah will think I'm a whore if I show off my hair or my arms or my legs or my shoulders

It's bad enough when men oppress women, but when other women keep women down, it's even worse.

brainwashing - There's your simple answer, you buffoon.


Actually, the French government has told French Muslim women what they must wear. They don't seem to care that these women - like you - "fucking have a brain." I guess it's OK with you that the French government is assuming the role of daddy?

You, like so many little white girls before you, think you know better than women elsewhere what they think, what they want, and more importantly, what they NEED to think and want. And like so many little white girls before you, you have been brainwashed to think that a woman who covers MUST be doing this because she's forced - because your little mind cannot conceive of anyone who thinks differently from you, and values different things. You say you respect freedom - but in reality, you respect it only if someone makes the same choices as you. You are as intolerant as Al-Saud.


This little white girl comes from a small Italian town where the little old ladies wore long, black dresses and scarves each day b/c it was the custom to be modest.

However, when these little Italian ladies came to the US, they took off their scarves - unless they were cooking - and purchased some fashionable dresses that were still modest but much brighter and "hipper."

Don't tell me about rights and customs, you moron. You tend to like your stereotypes, eh?

- White WOMAN, btw

Anonymous
Post 01/11/2015 21:26     Subject: terrorist attack in Paris
Anonymous wrote:Exposing genitalia is banned universally for self-evidente reasons. Covering one's face can be debated for security reasons -- although suche a ban didn't impede the attacks in Paris, 9/11, and other countless acts of violence -- but that's not the debate France had when the ban was imposed.

The government shouldn't determine a dressential code based on "values."


you don't realize that you share the ban on genitalia exposed simply because you share those values, not because this is a supposed ban "universally" shared. there are people in the US who would love to sunbathe in the nude but they cannot go to Virginia beach and do it or they will be arrested. there are areas in (at least in Africa, in islands in the Pacific and Australia ) where women normally expose their breasts. if some of these women move to the US do you think they should be allowed to walk around wearing sandals, a skirt and naked boobs? the reality is that they will not be allowed to do it, the government would tell them to cover their boobs based on local decency laws, which are based on current local values
Anonymous
Post 01/11/2015 21:18     Subject: terrorist attack in Paris
^^ by telling them that their faces can't be covered, the government told me what they can't wear.
Anonymous
Post 01/11/2015 21:17     Subject: terrorist attack in Paris
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Let me get that straight: An uncovered woman is against social customs inside the Islamic world, so we must respect that.

Yet a woman who has her face covered is against social customs everywhere outside of the Islamic world yet we cannot possibly respect that?

Logic fail.


You are not supporting a woman's right to be equal. You're supporting a man's need to continue to oppress and brainwash women through the use of religion (and culture).

Women should be free to express who they are. By DENYING them the privilege of wearing a skirt that hits the knee or by showing off her new hairstyle or by wearing pants with a funky pair of boots, you're not supporting her rights. You're simply too stupid to see the root of the issue - and it's patriarchy married to religion.

If I want, I can wear a maxi skirt and a sweater one day and a mini skirt and tights the next. It's my choice to determine what I want to put on my body. No man - no religion - is telling me what I must wear.

know why? b/c I fucking have a brain that hasn't been shaped to believe that Allah will think I'm a whore if I show off my hair or my arms or my legs or my shoulders

It's bad enough when men oppress women, but when other women keep women down, it's even worse.

brainwashing - There's your simple answer, you buffoon.


Actually, the French government has told French Muslim women what they must wear. They don't seem to care that these women - like you - "fucking have a brain." I guess it's OK with you that the French government is assuming the role of daddy?

You, like so many little white girls before you, think you know better than women elsewhere what they think, what they want, and more importantly, what they NEED to think and want. And like so many little white girls before you, you have been brainwashed to think that a woman who covers MUST be doing this because she's forced - because your little mind cannot conceive of anyone who thinks differently from you, and values different things. You say you respect freedom - but in reality, you respect it only if someone makes the same choices as you. You are as intolerant as Al-Saud.


the French government did not tell Muslim women what they must wear, they can wear whatever they want as long as they do not cover their faces, and this applies to anybody else.


Then the French government did tell them what they can wear.

Again, the debate was framed on "values."
Anonymous
Post 01/11/2015 21:16     Subject: terrorist attack in Paris
I think it was around the time of the ban that Sarkozy created the "ministry of immigration, integration, and national identity."
Anonymous
Post 01/11/2015 21:13     Subject: terrorist attack in Paris
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Let me get that straight: An uncovered woman is against social customs inside the Islamic world, so we must respect that.

Yet a woman who has her face covered is against social customs everywhere outside of the Islamic world yet we cannot possibly respect that?

Logic fail.


You are not supporting a woman's right to be equal. You're supporting a man's need to continue to oppress and brainwash women through the use of religion (and culture).

Women should be free to express who they are. By DENYING them the privilege of wearing a skirt that hits the knee or by showing off her new hairstyle or by wearing pants with a funky pair of boots, you're not supporting her rights. You're simply too stupid to see the root of the issue - and it's patriarchy married to religion.

If I want, I can wear a maxi skirt and a sweater one day and a mini skirt and tights the next. It's my choice to determine what I want to put on my body. No man - no religion - is telling me what I must wear.

know why? b/c I fucking have a brain that hasn't been shaped to believe that Allah will think I'm a whore if I show off my hair or my arms or my legs or my shoulders

It's bad enough when men oppress women, but when other women keep women down, it's even worse.

brainwashing - There's your simple answer, you buffoon.


Actually, the French government has told French Muslim women what they must wear. They don't seem to care that these women - like you - "fucking have a brain." I guess it's OK with you that the French government is assuming the role of daddy?

You, like so many little white girls before you, think you know better than women elsewhere what they think, what they want, and more importantly, what they NEED to think and want. And like so many little white girls before you, you have been brainwashed to think that a woman who covers MUST be doing this because she's forced - because your little mind cannot conceive of anyone who thinks differently from you, and values different things. You say you respect freedom - but in reality, you respect it only if someone makes the same choices as you. You are as intolerant as Al-Saud.


the French government did not tell Muslim women what they must wear, they can wear whatever they want as long as they do not cover their faces, and this applies to anybody else.
Anonymous
Post 01/11/2015 21:13     Subject: terrorist attack in Paris
Anonymous wrote:Exposing genitalia is banned universally for self-evidente reasons. Covering one's face can be debated for security reasons -- although suche a ban didn't impede the attacks in Paris, 9/11, and other countless acts of violence -- but that's not the debate France had when the ban was imposed.

The government shouldn't determine a dressential code based on "values."


Dress code
Anonymous
Post 01/11/2015 21:12     Subject: terrorist attack in Paris
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The government shouldn't tell you how to dress so that you fit into some sort of "national identity"


Not in this country. But why not in other countries?


Not in a country that clais to be a liberal democracy. It doesn't surprise me that the Saudis do it. It does surprise me that the overwhelming majority of French peopen wanted it.
Anonymous
Post 01/11/2015 21:10     Subject: terrorist attack in Paris
Exposing genitalia is banned universally for self-evidente reasons. Covering one's face can be debated for security reasons -- although suche a ban didn't impede the attacks in Paris, 9/11, and other countless acts of violence -- but that's not the debate France had when the ban was imposed.

The government shouldn't determine a dressential code based on "values."
Anonymous
Post 01/11/2015 21:07     Subject: terrorist attack in Paris
Anonymous wrote:The government shouldn't tell you how to dress so that you fit into some sort of "national identity"


Not in this country. But why not in other countries?
Anonymous
Post 01/11/2015 21:05     Subject: terrorist attack in Paris
Anonymous wrote:The government shouldn't tell you how to dress so that you fit into some sort of "national identity"


it does not seem to me that the government is telling people how to dress when people can wear absolutely anything they want as long as they do not 1) have their genital parts exposed; 2) cover their faces
Anonymous
Post 01/11/2015 20:59     Subject: terrorist attack in Paris
The government shouldn't tell you how to dress so that you fit into some sort of "national identity"