Mann sent 6 kids to Hardy this year-all but one was IB to Mann. Not everyone in the Mann district wants to send their kids to private, and not everyone is IMF (thus has tuition remission) or makes several hundred k a year to afford sending their kids to private.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So - we got an IB charter school parent complaining hardy is not good enough for the IB families, vs someone arguing it should not be for IB families.

In a thread asking HOW MANY IB are actually going - and the data we have so far - the best till count day - indicates a big increase in IB families (by either definition) - Hardy is well on its way to overcoming the prisoners' dilemma.

Do arguments always lag data? Is it that people get stuck in modes of arguing?

Who will be more unhappy when Hardy has flipped - the folks defending the idea that Hardy is "meant" to be a mostly OOB school, or the charter families defending their decision?

IB charter parent here. I will be very happy if/when Hardy flips. Our younger DC could attend the new and improved Hardy if the change is fast enough.

Even if Hardy doesn't flip in time for younger DC, a new and improved Hardy would probably increase the value of our house.

Unlikely. Parts of the catchment are too wealthy to ever consider Hardy. They either don't have children or their children attend private school. Whatever is left would be better served at Latin/Basis/DCI.

The demographics are staring you in the face and laughing. The real estate around Hardy is simply too expensive for the kind of young families that chose public middle schools.

Would you please elaborate, PP. I just checked Zillow, and the houses near Hardy seem priced comparably to the houses in Spring Valley and AU Park, both neighborhoods with lots of kids in public ES and (for AU Park) public MS. In fact, the houses near Hardy seemed like they might be a little cheaper on average.

Mann and Key have been full of IB families for years. They're not interested in Hardy.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's interesting that a few years ago Hardy almost became the Coretta Scott King middle school of the arts.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/20/AR2008082001476.html

Back then Hardy was on a fast-track to becoming a city-wide magnet arts middle school -- an Ellington feeder. Things might have actually worked out better if that effort had been successful and the pretext of a neighborhood school had been dropped. Then DCPS would have had to do something for the in-boundary families, and everyone would have been happy.

Math is hard for you.

There aren't enough IB families to justify building a brand new MS (or resurrecting a zombie one) in Ward 2. Either go to Hardy, go to Latin/Basis/DCI, go private, or move. There will be no "Special Snowflake MS" WOTP. Get used to it.

No, PP. Math is hard for you.

There are enough IB families to fill an new MS in Ward 2. They're just not interested in sending their kids to a "good enough" city-wide pseudo-magnet arts school masquerading as a neighborhood school to prove the point.

The IB numbers at Hardy are edging up. Hardy has a reasonable shot at being 70 to 80% IB in the next few years.

If the IB takeover of Hardy should fail, IB families will enlist their aid of their ANCs and councilmember to change DCPS policy at Hardy or to open a new MS. (Remember Mary Cheh's proposal a few years back?)

Either way, IB families will get a neighborhood "Special Snowflake" MS WOTP.

It's scary how hard this is for you.

The reality is that as long as Hardy isn't full of IB kids, there is no justification for a new MS WotP. It. won't. happen.

Mary Cheh can propose all the legislation she wants but she's not the Mayor, never will be, and the rest of DC doesn't look like Ward 3. Try to imagine ANY other councilmember having to face his/her voters after supporting a vote for a new MS WotP. If you don't realize it's impossible, then you're not imagining hard enough.

You didn't read my post very well, PP. The "Special Snowflake" MS WOTP will in all likelihood be Hardy itself. However, should DCPS insist on keeping it's city-wide pseudo-magnet arts MS program at Hardy, then they will have to build a new "Special Snowflake" MS somewhere else.

Running a city-wide pseudo-magnet arts program out of the Hardy building and calling it a neighborhood school is getting old.

There is no city-wide arts program or pseudo-magnet at Hardy. That died a few years ago when Pope was ousted. Remember? To appease the IB parents? Who are not flocking to the school as promised? Yes, those families - who demanded things, got them, and then still didn't show up.

Why in the hell would anyone open up a new school for them? Do know which ward has the most children in public school? (Hint: it's east of the river.)

Meanwhile, there's a new MS set to open in Brookland, which will probably be underenrolled. Jefferson and Elliot Hine are underenrolled. Ward 4 wants a unicorn McFarland, which after decades of being underenrolled finally closed. Maybe the city can waste tens of millions restoring it so that it too, can be underenrolled. There's always Shaw Middle, which could be renovated and underenrolled.

Meanwhile Deal is bursting at the seams. Latin has LONG WL. Basis has a WL for 5th. Brand new DCI is fully enrolled.

Kaya told the truth when she said DCPS doesn't do MS well. Do NOT spend more money on a Hardy unicorn. Total waste of resources.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP here. This is all moot anyway. The available evidence suggests that the school is making great strides as we type. It will be comical to reflect on this thread in four years.

I think in the absence of new (and official) numbers there isn't anything on topic to talk about, so people are rehashing the old arguments. Its like watching election returns before the numbers have come in.

+1

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's interesting that a few years ago Hardy almost became the Coretta Scott King middle school of the arts.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/20/AR2008082001476.html

Back then Hardy was on a fast-track to becoming a city-wide magnet arts middle school -- an Ellington feeder. Things might have actually worked out better if that effort had been successful and the pretext of a neighborhood school had been dropped. Then DCPS would have had to do something for the in-boundary families, and everyone would have been happy.

Math is hard for you.

There aren't enough IB families to justify building a brand new MS (or resurrecting a zombie one) in Ward 2. Either go to Hardy, go to Latin/Basis/DCI, go private, or move. There will be no "Special Snowflake MS" WOTP. Get used to it.

No, PP. Math is hard for you.

There are enough IB families to fill an new MS in Ward 2. They're just not interested in sending their kids to a "good enough" city-wide pseudo-magnet arts school masquerading as a neighborhood school to prove the point.

The IB numbers at Hardy are edging up. Hardy has a reasonable shot at being 70 to 80% IB in the next few years.

If the IB takeover of Hardy should fail, IB families will enlist their aid of their ANCs and councilmember to change DCPS policy at Hardy or to open a new MS. (Remember Mary Cheh's proposal a few years back?)

Either way, IB families will get a neighborhood "Special Snowflake" MS WOTP.

It's scary how hard this is for you.

The reality is that as long as Hardy isn't full of IB kids, there is no justification for a new MS WotP. It. won't. happen.

Mary Cheh can propose all the legislation she wants but she's not the Mayor, never will be, and the rest of DC doesn't look like Ward 3. Try to imagine ANY other councilmember having to face his/her voters after supporting a vote for a new MS WotP. If you don't realize it's impossible, then you're not imagining hard enough.

I think Councilmember Jack Evans has also supported a new middle school WOTP. He was also advocating re-opening Western High School in its former location and moving Duke Ellington to a new, more central site.

Another futile tilt at a windmill. The Ellington renovation is already underway. Too little, too late.

Anonymous wrote:PP here. This is all moot anyway. The available evidence suggests that the school is making great strides as we type. It will be comical to reflect on this thread in four years.

I think in the absence of new (and official) numbers there isn't anything on topic to talk about, so people are rehashing the old arguments. Its like watching election returns before the numbers have come in.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So - we got an IB charter school parent complaining hardy is not good enough for the IB families, vs someone arguing it should not be for IB families.

In a thread asking HOW MANY IB are actually going - and the data we have so far - the best till count day - indicates a big increase in IB families (by either definition) - Hardy is well on its way to overcoming the prisoners' dilemma.

Do arguments always lag data? Is it that people get stuck in modes of arguing?

Who will be more unhappy when Hardy has flipped - the folks defending the idea that Hardy is "meant" to be a mostly OOB school, or the charter families defending their decision?

IB charter parent here. I will be very happy if/when Hardy flips. Our younger DC could attend the new and improved Hardy if the change is fast enough.

Even if Hardy doesn't flip in time for younger DC, a new and improved Hardy would probably increase the value of our house.

Unlikely. Parts of the catchment are too wealthy to ever consider Hardy. They either don't have children or their children attend private school. Whatever is left would be better served at Latin/Basis/DCI. The demographics are staring you in the face and laughing. The real estate around Hardy is simply too expensive for the kind of young families that chose public middle schools.

Agenda revealed. Charter booster. Clearly some want a neighborhood MS. Based on the current IB estimates, how far is Hardy from matching the charters in desirability (for someone not interested in their special programs)?

Anonymous wrote:PP here. This is all moot anyway. The available evidence suggests that the school is making great strides as we type. It will be comical to reflect on this thread in four years.

+
It was suggested earlier that DCPS should persuade Marion Barry to protest the changes underway at Hardy, the way he did several years ago as Deal was taking off under Dr. Kim. Then IB families probably would be lining up to check Hardy out!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So - we got an IB charter school parent complaining hardy is not good enough for the IB families, vs someone arguing it should not be for IB families.

In a thread asking HOW MANY IB are actually going - and the data we have so far - the best till count day - indicates a big increase in IB families (by either definition) - Hardy is well on its way to overcoming the prisoners' dilemma.

Do arguments always lag data? Is it that people get stuck in modes of arguing?

Who will be more unhappy when Hardy has flipped - the folks defending the idea that Hardy is "meant" to be a mostly OOB school, or the charter families defending their decision?

IB charter parent here. I will be very happy if/when Hardy flips. Our younger DC could attend the new and improved Hardy if the change is fast enough.

Even if Hardy doesn't flip in time for younger DC, a new and improved Hardy would probably increase the value of our house.

Unlikely. Parts of the catchment are too wealthy to ever consider Hardy. They either don't have children or their children attend private school. Whatever is left would be better served at Latin/Basis/DCI.

The demographics are staring you in the face and laughing. The real estate around Hardy is simply too expensive for the kind of young families that chose public middle schools.

Would you please elaborate, PP. I just checked Zillow, and the houses near Hardy seem priced comparably to the houses in Spring Valley and AU Park, both neighborhoods with lots of kids in public ES and (for AU Park) public MS. In fact, the houses near Hardy seemed like they might be a little cheaper on average.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So - we got an IB charter school parent complaining hardy is not good enough for the IB families, vs someone arguing it should not be for IB families.

In a thread asking HOW MANY IB are actually going - and the data we have so far - the best till count day - indicates a big increase in IB families (by either definition) - Hardy is well on its way to overcoming the prisoners' dilemma.

Do arguments always lag data? Is it that people get stuck in modes of arguing?

Who will be more unhappy when Hardy has flipped - the folks defending the idea that Hardy is "meant" to be a mostly OOB school, or the charter families defending their decision?

IB charter parent here. I will be very happy if/when Hardy flips. Our younger DC could attend the new and improved Hardy if the change is fast enough.

Even if Hardy doesn't flip in time for younger DC, a new and improved Hardy would probably increase the value of our house.

Unlikely. Parts of the catchment are too wealthy to ever consider Hardy. They either don't have children or their children attend private school. Whatever is left would be better served at Latin/Basis/DCI.

The demographics are staring you in the face and laughing. The real estate around Hardy is simply too expensive for the kind of young families that chose public middle schools.

Maybe the best solution is to let Hardy fulfill its desire to be the DC-wide magnet arts middle school, with a pipeline to Ellington. Then move the general academic track middle school back to an expanded, modernized on Foxhall Rd. where it once . That way, you avoid the political football of having three general purpose middle schools WOTP yet serve what are clearly identified needs.

PP here: that should read "expanded, modernized building on Foxhall Rd. where it once was."

Anonymous wrote:So - we got an IB charter school parent complaining hardy is not good enough for the IB families, vs someone arguing it should not be for IB families.

In a thread asking HOW MANY IB are actually going - and the data we have so far - the best till count day - indicates a big increase in IB families (by either definition) - Hardy is well on its way to overcoming the prisoners' dilemma.

Do arguments always lag data? Is it that people get stuck in modes of arguing?

Who will be more unhappy when Hardy has flipped - the folks defending the idea that Hardy is "meant" to be a mostly OOB school, or the charter families defending their decision?

I don't see where most (or maybe any) posters are arguing that Hardy is meant to be mostly OOB. I see posters arguing that IB kids can still get a decent education there even if there are a lot of OOB kids.

But now that I think about it, I guess it's fortunate that the IB families wouldn't touch Hardy back in the day so my kid was able to feed from her OOB elementary to Hardy. Thanks y'all for leaving room for my OOB kid!

(That is, two PP's ago.)

PP here. This is all moot anyway. The available evidence suggests that the school is making great strides as we type. It will be comical to reflect on this thread in four years.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's interesting that a few years ago Hardy almost became the Coretta Scott King middle school of the arts.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/20/AR2008082001476.html

Back then Hardy was on a fast-track to becoming a city-wide magnet arts middle school -- an Ellington feeder. Things might have actually worked out better if that effort had been successful and the pretext of a neighborhood school had been dropped. Then DCPS would have had to do something for the in-boundary families, and everyone would have been happy.

Math is hard for you.

There aren't enough IB families to justify building a brand new MS (or resurrecting a zombie one) in Ward 2. Either go to Hardy, go to Latin/Basis/DCI, go private, or move. There will be no "Special Snowflake MS" WOTP. Get used to it.

No, PP. Math is hard for you.

There are enough IB families to fill an new MS in Ward 2. They're just not interested in sending their kids to a "good enough" city-wide pseudo-magnet arts school masquerading as a neighborhood school to prove the point.

The IB numbers at Hardy are edging up. Hardy has a reasonable shot at being 70 to 80% IB in the next few years.

If the IB takeover of Hardy should fail, IB families will enlist their aid of their ANCs and councilmember to change DCPS policy at Hardy or to open a new MS. (Remember Mary Cheh's proposal a few years back?)

Either way, IB families will get a neighborhood "Special Snowflake" MS WOTP.

It's scary how hard this is for you.

The reality is that as long as Hardy isn't full of IB kids, there is no justification for a new MS WotP. It. won't. happen.

Mary Cheh can propose all the legislation she wants but she's not the Mayor, never will be, and the rest of DC doesn't look like Ward 3. Try to imagine ANY other councilmember having to face his/her voters after supporting a vote for a new MS WotP. If you don't realize it's impossible, then you're not imagining hard enough.

I think Councilmember Jack Evans has also supported a new middle school WOTP. He was also advocating re-opening Western High School in its former location and moving Duke Ellington to a new, more central site.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So - we got an IB charter school parent complaining hardy is not good enough for the IB families, vs someone arguing it should not be for IB families.

In a thread asking HOW MANY IB are actually going - and the data we have so far - the best till count day - indicates a big increase in IB families (by either definition) - Hardy is well on its way to overcoming the prisoners' dilemma.

Do arguments always lag data? Is it that people get stuck in modes of arguing?

Who will be more unhappy when Hardy has flipped - the folks defending the idea that Hardy is "meant" to be a mostly OOB school, or the charter families defending their decision?

IB charter parent here. I will be very happy if/when Hardy flips. Our younger DC could attend the new and improved Hardy if the change is fast enough.

Even if Hardy doesn't flip in time for younger DC, a new and improved Hardy would probably increase the value of our house.

Unlikely. Parts of the catchment are too wealthy to ever consider Hardy. They either don't have children or their children attend private school. Whatever is left would be better served at Latin/Basis/DCI.

The demographics are staring you in the face and laughing. The real estate around Hardy is simply too expensive for the kind of young families that chose public middle schools.

You don't understand the dynamics you're trying to describe. First off, you're wrong. There are plenty of homes in Spring Valley and Wesley Heights that send their kids to public school. Sure, there are many more that do this for elementary school, but plenty still do for later grades as well. (I know. I live there.) Don't take it from me: you can look at the maps yourself (http://edu.codefordc.org/#!/neighborhood/13). (Moreover, any discussion of the attrition between ES grades and MS ignore the Hardy effect. It really is a chicken-and-egg problem.)

Second, the effect on home prices happens at the margin. Private school for two kids is over $40k per year. That's about the cost of a $1m mortgage. So, as long as one new entrant is willing to spend their private school tuition on a home, instead, then the home can support a considerably inflated price. It doesn't matter if the bulk of resident avail themselves of private school.