Anonymous wrote: it falls on FCPS to handle the selection process

Precisely. That is why AAP Center eligibility is not based on a single test score on a single day.

http://www.fcps.edu/is/aap/faqs/idfaqs.shtml

How important are the test scores in determining eligibility for full-time AAP (level IV) center placement?
Test scores are just one piece of data considered when a file is reviewed for full-time AAP (level IV) center placement. The Level IV Center Central Selection Committee, made up of FCPS teachers, specialists, and administrators, considers multiple criteria, including: the Gifted Behaviors Rating Scale (GBRS), ability and achievement test scores, work samples, student progress reports, and other optional information such as the Parent/Guardian Questionnaire (available at http://www.fcps.edu/is/aap/forms.shtml).

Anonymous wrote:

Are people actually saying that otaining the exact form/copy of the test, having a 7 yo memorize the answers, then take the test is ethical? If so, I hope you enjoy your career befoe you get busted for fraud.

This statement has nothing to do with hardwork and prepping for tests, exams and studies. Nothing at all. You are the only one talking about smuggling tests and exams and forcing students to memorize the answers. This is not what is meant by hard work and study or test preparation and prepping.

But this thread originated from FCPS stating they have caught children with the exact form (meaning copy) of the CogAT. That is not prep, that is cheating. Reading, solving puzzles, writing, studying are all good exersizes. Just like batting practice is needed for Bryce Harper. Trying to infer the game plan is ok in sports. Stealing the game plan is not.

Anonymous wrote:"those poor foolish 6 and 7 year olds with parents who thought there was a difference between testing aptitudes and abilities vs. learned material . . .

I think a number of people on this board are either missing the point, or don't really understand the difference between types of tests."

+1

count me in the former group (missing the point). Can you make it clearly. What is your point?

"those poor foolish 6 and 7 year olds with parents who thought there was a difference between testing aptitudes and abilities vs. learned material . . .

I think a number of people on this board are either missing the point, or don't really understand the difference between types of tests."

+1

Does some of this animosity towards test preppers come from parents who would like their kids in AAP by know they would not be able to get their kids to do this sort of disciplined, time consuming test prep even if they wanted them to? So the concern is other parents / kids getting an advantage they cannot duplicate.

I would like to have my kid qualify for AAP but know it would be pretty tough to systematically prep him. Best I could probably do is use games that work similar skills and maybe get him through a handful of sample questions.

So yeah the parent who can get their kid to do many hours of systematic preparation or a test prep class will have an advantage. But that kid will also probably be well behaved in class and be successful in AAP by working diligently at his / her studies even if they have a few less IQ points.

Perhaps it can be claimed that it is not exactly what FCPS wants but really it falls on FCPS to handle the selection process - people will always try to get an advantage for something they view as important. And whatever people say it is hard for me to see at home prep as cheating unless someone literally gets an advance copy of the exact test.

At each youth sport we have sampled so far - I see some parents who take it pretty seriously and their kids are already specializing and spending many hours on it. They may be better at it even if my kid is a better natural or overall athlete. Is that unfair or is that something of a life lesson?

Sounds like a lesson in life. Some had better get comfortable with who they are and not what they want to be or what they want others to be!

I think the poster falls into the category of a student who never worked, studied or prepped hard for any task or test...hence the clear outcome or result.

Anonymous wrote:Who is making this fuss over FCPS changing a test ... as if this is some epoch making event. From elementary to middle to high school; college to graduate and professional school, SAT, MCAT, GRE, PSAT, LSAT I never took the same test twice. All these entities and teachers in our schools change the test from term to term, semester to semester and year to year. What is the big deal here? These tests are all changed from time to time to prevent kids from gaining an advantage from bootleg copies/ answers. Nevertheless, only a fool doesn't study hard and prep for their tests and exams.

those poor foolish 6 and 7 year olds with parents who thought there was a difference between testing aptitudes and abilities vs. learned material . . .

I think a number of people on this board are either missing the point, or don't really understand the difference between types of tests.

Does some of this animosity towards test preppers come from parents who would like their kids in AAP by know they would not be able to get their kids to do this sort of disciplined, time consuming test prep even if they wanted them to? So the concern is other parents / kids getting an advantage they cannot duplicate.

I would like to have my kid qualify for AAP but know it would be pretty tough to systematically prep him. Best I could probably do is use games that work similar skills and maybe get him through a handful of sample questions.

So yeah the parent who can get their kid to do many hours of systematic preparation or a test prep class will have an advantage. But that kid will also probably be well behaved in class and be successful in AAP by working diligently at his / her studies even if they have a few less IQ points.

Perhaps it can be claimed that it is not exactly what FCPS wants but really it falls on FCPS to handle the selection process - people will always try to get an advantage for something they view as important. And whatever people say it is hard for me to see at home prep as cheating unless someone literally gets an advance copy of the exact test.

At each youth sport we have sampled so far - I see some parents who take it pretty seriously and their kids are already specializing and spending many hours on it. They may be better at it even if my kid is a better natural or overall athlete. Is that unfair or is that something of a life lesson?

In the cases being discussed in this thread,

"test prep" = use of inappropriate study materials which caused FCPS to change the test.

No one has a problem with normal hard work and study. People do have a problem with people using

materials

they've been asked not to use.

It's not truly success if obtained by inappropriate means.

Poster is clearly not a policy wonk or lawyer. She speaks in vague references.

What are inappropriate study materials?

Please list or catalogue these inappropriate materials and cite where this list comes from (who?)

What are the materials students are using that they have been asked not to use?
What materials and who told them not to use them?

Define inapproriate means? (e.g., stealing, Internet, mommy, daddy, teacher, bro and sis) What do you mean?

Anonymous wrote:
In the cases being discussed in this thread,

"test prep" = use of inappropriate study materials which caused FCPS to change the test.

No one has a problem with normal hard work and study. People do have a problem with people using materials they've been asked not to use.

It's not truly success if obtained by inappropriate means.

not a scintilla of evidence I have seen on this thread or anywhere that FCPS has asked anyone not to use prep materials. Show me where they have said that.

What agency or indidual has requested kids not use certain "materials" in preparation for a test. Name, document, list of banned materials please?

Do you have a list of the banned goods and a reference?

In the cases being discussed in this thread,

"test prep" = use of inappropriate study materials which caused FCPS to change the test.

No one has a problem with normal hard work and study. People do have a problem with people using materials they've been asked not to use.

It's not truly success if obtained by inappropriate means.

Who is making this fuss over FCPS changing a test ... as if this is some epoch making event. From elementary to middle to high school; college to graduate and professional school, SAT, MCAT, GRE, PSAT, LSAT I never took the same test twice. All these entities and teachers in our schools change the test from term to term, semester to semester and year to year. What is the big deal here? These tests are all changed from time to time to prevent kids from gaining an advantage from bootleg copies/ answers. Nevertheless, only a fool doesn't study hard and prep for their tests and exams.

"test prep" = "study and hard work" both involve preparation for success.

This has nothing to do with an MBA, business school, and businesses in the business of passing tests and exams (e.g., schools and Kaplan) in order that kids graduate and move on to the next stage or level.

Anonymous wrote:

Are people actually saying that otaining the exact form/copy of the test, having a 7 yo memorize the answers, then take the test is ethical? If so, I hope you enjoy your career befoe you get busted for fraud.

This statement has nothing to do with hardwork and prepping for tests, exams and studies. Nothing at all. You are the only one talking about smuggling tests and exams and forcing students to memorize the answers. This is not what is meant by hard work and study or test preparation and prepping.

Some posters have not read the parts of this thread that explain the difference between "test prep" and athletic training. In addition, we are talking about first and second graders here, not TJ and college applicants.

One can say over and over again that "preparation is the key to life" blah, blah, blah, but it doesn't change the fact that the type of test prep many people in Fairfax County were using was not approved by FCPS and was not appropriate for use by parents and students before taking the tests used here. The type of "test prep" discussed here is very, very different from the many other types of study and preparation referred to in some of the posts on this thread.

FCPS has specifically said that they changed the test because of the inappropriate "prep" materials used by some parents. People react in different ways when a wrong has been pointed out to them. In this particular case, some posters have reacted by disparaging those who have pointed out the wrong: calling them racists, lazy, entitled, anything they can think of to distract attention from the fact that certain types of "test prep" are not considered appropriate by the school district.

Hard work and study and "test prep" are referring to two different processes. FCPS changed the test because people were using inappropriate materials to "prep" their children.