Anonymous
05/01/2022 21:00
Subject: Re:DeSantis and FL moving to hammer Disney
Anonymous wrote:DeSantis has effectively admitted that this can’t happen and that Reedy Creek will have to be allowed to continue as a special district. They may give it another name and tweak it a bit, but Disney will continue to have a special district.
Link? Last I saw his press secretary was yelling at the liberal elite media being paid to write defamatory stories attacking the governor (or something along those lines) while slipping something in about Disney will pay their taxes and bonds. Whatever that means. This guy is like Huey Long.
Anonymous
05/01/2022 19:22
Subject: Re:DeSantis and FL moving to hammer Disney
DeSantis has effectively admitted that this can’t happen and that Reedy Creek will have to be allowed to continue as a special district. They may give it another name and tweak it a bit, but Disney will continue to have a special district.
Anonymous
05/01/2022 18:07
Subject: DeSantis and FL moving to hammer Disney
Anonymous wrote:So in the twitter/musk thread people are saying "free speech doesn’t mean without consequences" but here Disney can’t be punished because of "free speech". Which is it?
The US Constitution holds that GOVERNMENT cannot punish or limit free speech except in certain situations (ie cannot shout fire in a crowded theater)
DiSantis is using government to punish Disney.
Not legal
Anonymous
05/01/2022 18:03
Subject: DeSantis and FL moving to hammer Disney
So in the twitter/musk thread people are saying "free speech doesn’t mean without consequences" but here Disney can’t be punished because of "free speech". Which is it?
Anonymous
05/01/2022 17:29
Subject: DeSantis and FL moving to hammer Disney
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:DeSantis says Disney will pay. DeSantis is the executive of Florida, he controls the Florida legislative branch and Florida courts. Disney will pay.
That’s not how anything works. You cannot force an independent third party to assume responsibility for bonds for which they have no legal obligations. And if DeSantis tries to play games with repayment of the bonds, ratings agencies will downgrade all of Florida’s debt because they will not longer be reliable on their repayment obligations, which would have severe consequences for Florida.
DeSantis can pass any law he needs to to make it happen. Oh and there are never any long term consequences for governmental defaulting. Specially when this is not really a government entity.
What you’re suggesting is unconditional. Just fyi. He can’t tax Disney extra because he doesn’t like their public political statements. What the hell is wrong with you?
It is absolutely UNFU--ING believable that some people (upthread) are CHEERING for a public official to punish a private corporation/entity/people for their speech. It is so cliche to say "this is how democracy dies" but it is LITERALLY HOW DEMOCRACY DIES. What DeSantis is doing is blatantly and clearly unconstitutional. And if you support that, maybe you should take up residence in another country more in line with your values. I hear Beijing is nice this time of year.
Surely not rooting for desantis but if you think for one second that I’m going to cheer on a multinational corporation with a history of labor abuses and anti-worker activities, yea right. As was pointed out upthread, Disney can still be an ally while not receiving special treatment. Sitting this one out.
Anonymous
05/01/2022 17:17
Subject: DeSantis and FL moving to hammer Disney
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:DeSantis says Disney will pay. DeSantis is the executive of Florida, he controls the Florida legislative branch and Florida courts. Disney will pay.
That’s not how anything works. You cannot force an independent third party to assume responsibility for bonds for which they have no legal obligations. And if DeSantis tries to play games with repayment of the bonds, ratings agencies will downgrade all of Florida’s debt because they will not longer be reliable on their repayment obligations, which would have severe consequences for Florida.
DeSantis can pass any law he needs to to make it happen. Oh and there are never any long term consequences for governmental defaulting. Specially when this is not really a government entity.
What you’re suggesting is unconditional. Just fyi. He can’t tax Disney extra because he doesn’t like their public political statements. What the hell is wrong with you?
It is absolutely UNFU--ING believable that some people (upthread) are CHEERING for a public official to punish a private corporation/entity/people for their speech. It is so cliche to say "this is how democracy dies" but it is LITERALLY HOW DEMOCRACY DIES. What DeSantis is doing is blatantly and clearly unconstitutional. And if you support that, maybe you should take up residence in another country more in line with your values. I hear Beijing is nice this time of year.
Why do you find it so unbelievable? They live in their echo chamber; you live in yours.
Anonymous
05/01/2022 17:06
Subject: Re:DeSantis and FL moving to hammer Disney
Sorry--accidentally cut off the URL for the Fidelity link, which is actually a Moody's report:
https://www.fidelity.com/bin-public/060_www_fidelity_com/documents/fixed-income/moodys-investors-service-data-report-us-municipal-bond.pdf
https://www.fidelity.com/bin-public/060_www_fidelity_com/documents/fixed-income/moodys-investors-service-data-report-us-municipal-bond.pdf
Anonymous
05/01/2022 16:40
Subject: Re:DeSantis and FL moving to hammer Disney
Anonymous wrote:99 US municipal bonds defaulted between 1970 and 2020--see page 24 for a list:
https://www.fidelity.com/bin-public/060_www_fidelity_com/documents/fixed-income/moodys-inv
Arkansas, Illinois, Indiana, Louisiana, Maryland, Michigan, Mississippi, Pennsylvania, and the territory of Florida all defaulted on their debt in the 1840s. Arkansas defaulted in 1933,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._state_defaults_in_the_1840s
The Washington Public Power Supply defaulted on its debt in 1982.
https://www.historylink.org/file/5482
1. Your fidelity link is dead
2. This isn’t the 1840s
Anonymous
05/01/2022 16:23
Subject: Re:DeSantis and FL moving to hammer Disney
99 US municipal bonds defaulted between 1970 and 2020--see page 24 for a list:
https://www.fidelity.com/bin-public/060_www_fidelity_com/documents/fixed-income/moodys-inv
Arkansas, Illinois, Indiana, Louisiana, Maryland, Michigan, Mississippi, Pennsylvania, and the territory of Florida all defaulted on their debt in the 1840s. Arkansas defaulted in 1933,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._state_defaults_in_the_1840s
The Washington Public Power Supply defaulted on its debt in 1982.
https://www.historylink.org/file/5482
https://www.fidelity.com/bin-public/060_www_fidelity_com/documents/fixed-income/moodys-inv
Arkansas, Illinois, Indiana, Louisiana, Maryland, Michigan, Mississippi, Pennsylvania, and the territory of Florida all defaulted on their debt in the 1840s. Arkansas defaulted in 1933,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._state_defaults_in_the_1840s
The Washington Public Power Supply defaulted on its debt in 1982.
https://www.historylink.org/file/5482
Anonymous
05/01/2022 16:10
Subject: Re:DeSantis and FL moving to hammer Disney
De Santis can pass laws. It doesn't mean they are constitutional or will hold up in court.
Anonymous
05/01/2022 15:43
Subject: DeSantis and FL moving to hammer Disney
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:DeSantis says Disney will pay. DeSantis is the executive of Florida, he controls the Florida legislative branch and Florida courts. Disney will pay.
That’s not how anything works. You cannot force an independent third party to assume responsibility for bonds for which they have no legal obligations. And if DeSantis tries to play games with repayment of the bonds, ratings agencies will downgrade all of Florida’s debt because they will not longer be reliable on their repayment obligations, which would have severe consequences for Florida.
DeSantis can pass any law he needs to to make it happen. Oh and there are never any long term consequences for governmental defaulting. Specially when this is not really a government entity.
What you’re suggesting is unconditional. Just fyi. He can’t tax Disney extra because he doesn’t like their public political statements. What the hell is wrong with you?
It is absolutely UNFU--ING believable that some people (upthread) are CHEERING for a public official to punish a private corporation/entity/people for their speech. It is so cliche to say "this is how democracy dies" but it is LITERALLY HOW DEMOCRACY DIES. What DeSantis is doing is blatantly and clearly unconstitutional. And if you support that, maybe you should take up residence in another country more in line with your values. I hear Beijing is nice this time of year.
The poster above saying DeSantis can pass any law he needs to make it happen is either fundamentally ignorant or knows what he's saying is false and is just posturing. Either way, he is basically just trolling to rile people up. What DeSantis is trying to do is reprehensible and anti-American, but it will also fail.
You know just because you think it is unconstitutional for a governor to propose a law that will address the dissolution of a special taxes district’s bonds does not make it so. The Florida senate has 40 seats 26 of which are held by republicans and the house has 120 of which 77 are republicans. DeSantis has totally consolidated political power in the state and within the republicans party. He is also incredibly popular. He can pass any law he wants to pass. As demonstrated by what he just did.
So it is you who are ignorant and making false claims which you do not back up. You do not seem to understand what has happened, politics of Florida, etc, etc.
Anonymous
05/01/2022 15:19
Subject: DeSantis and FL moving to hammer Disney
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:DeSantis says Disney will pay. DeSantis is the executive of Florida, he controls the Florida legislative branch and Florida courts. Disney will pay.
That’s not how anything works. You cannot force an independent third party to assume responsibility for bonds for which they have no legal obligations. And if DeSantis tries to play games with repayment of the bonds, ratings agencies will downgrade all of Florida’s debt because they will not longer be reliable on their repayment obligations, which would have severe consequences for Florida.
DeSantis can pass any law he needs to to make it happen. Oh and there are never any long term consequences for governmental defaulting. Specially when this is not really a government entity.
Please provide some examples of governmental entities defaulting on bonds without any long-term consequence.
Intuition suggests countries that default on sovereign debt might have trouble borrowing again and are likely to have to pay a higher interest rate if they get the chance. Empirical surveys, in contrast, have found that defaulting sovereigns tend to regain market access quickly and don't pay a penalty rate. Not everyone agrees that credit investors "forgive and forget." In particular, higher levels of loss appear to lead to longer periods of market exclusion and penalty rates when the exclusion ends
https://www.investopedia.com/articles/investing/102413/why-and-when-do-countries-default.asp
During the COVID-19 crisis in 2020, the annual sovereign bond default rate surged to a record high of 4.2%, Moody's data show. Argentina(C+), Ecuador(B-)and Lebanon(C-D), Belize(B-), Zambia(RD), Suriname(C)
Venezuela(C) 2017 and 2018
Greece(BB) 2015
Nicaragua(B+) and Ecuador(B-] were among nations that defaulted during the global financial crisis in 2008.
Russia, 1918 and 1998
Sri Lanka(B)1984
Mexico(BBB) 1982
Anonymous
05/01/2022 14:25
Subject: DeSantis and FL moving to hammer Disney
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:DeSantis says Disney will pay. DeSantis is the executive of Florida, he controls the Florida legislative branch and Florida courts. Disney will pay.
That’s not how anything works. You cannot force an independent third party to assume responsibility for bonds for which they have no legal obligations. And if DeSantis tries to play games with repayment of the bonds, ratings agencies will downgrade all of Florida’s debt because they will not longer be reliable on their repayment obligations, which would have severe consequences for Florida.
DeSantis can pass any law he needs to to make it happen. Oh and there are never any long term consequences for governmental defaulting. Specially when this is not really a government entity.
What you’re suggesting is unconditional. Just fyi. He can’t tax Disney extra because he doesn’t like their public political statements. What the hell is wrong with you?
It is absolutely UNFU--ING believable that some people (upthread) are CHEERING for a public official to punish a private corporation/entity/people for their speech. It is so cliche to say "this is how democracy dies" but it is LITERALLY HOW DEMOCRACY DIES. What DeSantis is doing is blatantly and clearly unconstitutional. And if you support that, maybe you should take up residence in another country more in line with your values. I hear Beijing is nice this time of year.
The poster above saying DeSantis can pass any law he needs to make it happen is either fundamentally ignorant or knows what he's saying is false and is just posturing. Either way, he is basically just trolling to rile people up. What DeSantis is trying to do is reprehensible and anti-American, but it will also fail.
Anonymous
05/01/2022 14:21
Subject: DeSantis and FL moving to hammer Disney
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:DeSantis says Disney will pay. DeSantis is the executive of Florida, he controls the Florida legislative branch and Florida courts. Disney will pay.
That’s not how anything works. You cannot force an independent third party to assume responsibility for bonds for which they have no legal obligations. And if DeSantis tries to play games with repayment of the bonds, ratings agencies will downgrade all of Florida’s debt because they will not longer be reliable on their repayment obligations, which would have severe consequences for Florida.
DeSantis can pass any law he needs to to make it happen. Oh and there are never any long term consequences for governmental defaulting. Specially when this is not really a government entity.
What you’re suggesting is unconditional. Just fyi. He can’t tax Disney extra because he doesn’t like their public political statements. What the hell is wrong with you?
It is absolutely UNFU--ING believable that some people (upthread) are CHEERING for a public official to punish a private corporation/entity/people for their speech. It is so cliche to say "this is how democracy dies" but it is LITERALLY HOW DEMOCRACY DIES. What DeSantis is doing is blatantly and clearly unconstitutional. And if you support that, maybe you should take up residence in another country more in line with your values. I hear Beijing is nice this time of year.
Anonymous
05/01/2022 14:15
Subject: DeSantis and FL moving to hammer Disney
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:DeSantis says Disney will pay. DeSantis is the executive of Florida, he controls the Florida legislative branch and Florida courts. Disney will pay.
That’s not how anything works. You cannot force an independent third party to assume responsibility for bonds for which they have no legal obligations. And if DeSantis tries to play games with repayment of the bonds, ratings agencies will downgrade all of Florida’s debt because they will not longer be reliable on their repayment obligations, which would have severe consequences for Florida.
DeSantis can pass any law he needs to to make it happen. Oh and there are never any long term consequences for governmental defaulting. Specially when this is not really a government entity.
Please provide some examples of governmental entities defaulting on bonds without any long-term consequence.