Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Serious question-

If they kept the SALT deduction to $10k and lowered the income limit for the CTC, my guess is the total cost of the bill is closer to Manchin’s affordability number. Why not compromise on that? I see Manchin’s counter offer says basically that.

Umm no it doesn't. Manchin's counter-offer is $1.8B for subsidized ACA, 10 years fully paid for national Pre-K, and Climate. It does not include CTC at all. That's the sticker. White House should have accepted.

Why the heck do they keep calling it a “tax credit” when there is NO work requirement? Manchin is right, it’s insane. And it’s NOT A TAX CREDIT!

I've been saying this all along. Call it what it is..... a bribe.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh you mean NOW the liberals want to compromise? The funny thing is two days ago they were talking about putting IMMIGRANTS back in the same bill and weeks ago - attaching paid leave no matter the price. They are a long way off from compromise.

They HAVE been compromising. They agreed to several of Manchin's demands, they also agreed to several Republican demands. Problem is, none of them are actually making demands in good faith.

Your first mistake is thinking that Manchin needs to compromise. He doesn’t. He doesn’t need to give in to anyones demands. He doesn’t owe you anything. And don’t repeat the same stupid threat about wanting to primary him. If Manchin wasn’t senator then it would be a republican.

Just because one side asks for the moon doesn’t mean you need to “compromise” and meet in the middle. He was right to just say no. Hopefully the few other sane moderate democrats stand up and say no to the insanity as well.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Serious question-

If they kept the SALT deduction to $10k and lowered the income limit for the CTC, my guess is the total cost of the bill is closer to Manchin’s affordability number. Why not compromise on that? I see Manchin’s counter offer says basically that.

Umm no it doesn't. Manchin's counter-offer is $1.8B for subsidized ACA, 10 years fully paid for national Pre-K, and Climate. It does not include CTC at all. That's the sticker. White House should have accepted.

Why the heck do they keep calling it a “tax credit” when there is NO work requirement? Manchin is right, it’s insane. And it’s NOT A TAX CREDIT!

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Anonymous wrote:Nancy Pelosi yesterday speaking to House members: “Don’t embarrass the president by voting down the infrastructure bill as he flies overseas.”

She also said she would put the infrastructure bill on the floor yesterday and hold the vote open to get the bill through.

Guess that didn’t work out too well for her. Lame duck Speaker losing control.

She already lost control and the 3-year-olds are running the house. Oh well.

Nancy is a lot of things but she is a shrewd politician. They're going to end up with eggy faces in December.

Why? Because you say so? If there’s anyone with egg on her face it’s Nancy. I think it’s high time her and the rest of them start standing together with the CPC and abandon the corporatist agenda.

Like I said

Reading between the lines - this alliance between Klain and Jayapal is not going down well.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/biden-infrastructure-presidency/2021/11/06/4eaa5372-3f05-11ec-8ee9-4f14a26749d1_story.html
The vote came at a moment of high tension inside the White House. Aides said the president has grown increasingly short-tempered. Over his three decades in politics, Biden has been known to scream at staff on occasion, but Biden aides said since he has become president, the yelling has become more frequent and directed at a wider audience of staff.

Tensions were also running high between the White House and Capitol Hill. On top of Pelosi’s anger with the White House last week, frictions ramped up between the speaker and Jayapal. Some Democrats on the Hill also expressed frustration with Klain, who they said had empowered Jayapal and her caucus at the expense of the rest of the party. Klain speaks regularly with a range of members, including moderates such as Gottheimer, a White House official said.

Time to get rid of Klain and Jayapal - they wouldn't compromise. New year, new leadership.

Supposedly, Jayapal has expressed an interest in the Speaker's position if Nancy retires or doesn't run for Speaker (or, more likely, minority leader come 2022).

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.

She can express interest all she wants but she’s not getting it. I don’t even think she’s in House leadership.

The audacity!

Someone's in danger of losing his job looks like

“This is an indictment of the senior leadership in the White House. The worst part is nobody will be held accountable for this. They don't understand the American people want results; they don't want drama and rhetoric,” the House Democrat said in a lengthy rant over the phone. “Everyone has been left high and dry. I can see everyone [vulnerable Democrats] fleeing for the hills at this point,” abandoning Biden and running their own races.

“It started with Afghanistan. Nobody was held accountable for the chaos that the Afghanistan withdrawal constituted. It allowed everyone to get a pass. It sent the message that the president will stick by you so do whatever you want,” the lawmaker continued.

“I do think [Biden] needs to clean house if we have any chance of salvaging 2022. There have to be consequences,” the source added.

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/586572-democrats-descend-into-finger-pointing-after-build-back-better

Oh look, it’s Spanberger dishing to the press after she fought to decouple the bills, losing leverage over Manchin. Oopsee

Anonymous wrote:this is all coming back to Manchin and something WILL pass.

Oh you're cute. You think a $20 million line-item is going to get Manchin to reverse course? The rest of it is funded with an excise tax on the very corporations that causes the lung disease. He can get the Black Lung rider attached to any bipartisan bill he wants in 2022 - it'll get support on both sides of the aisle.

this is all coming back to Manchin and something WILL pass.

Anonymous wrote:Jeeze the desperation is real. Ya'll really think Romney is going to save you and vote against the GOP?

As bad as Manchin is, the Republicans are far worse.

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Anonymous wrote:Nancy Pelosi yesterday speaking to House members: “Don’t embarrass the president by voting down the infrastructure bill as he flies overseas.”

She also said she would put the infrastructure bill on the floor yesterday and hold the vote open to get the bill through.

Guess that didn’t work out too well for her. Lame duck Speaker losing control.

She already lost control and the 3-year-olds are running the house. Oh well.

Nancy is a lot of things but she is a shrewd politician. They're going to end up with eggy faces in December.

Why? Because you say so? If there’s anyone with egg on her face it’s Nancy. I think it’s high time her and the rest of them start standing together with the CPC and abandon the corporatist agenda.

Like I said

Reading between the lines - this alliance between Klain and Jayapal is not going down well.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/biden-infrastructure-presidency/2021/11/06/4eaa5372-3f05-11ec-8ee9-4f14a26749d1_story.html
The vote came at a moment of high tension inside the White House. Aides said the president has grown increasingly short-tempered. Over his three decades in politics, Biden has been known to scream at staff on occasion, but Biden aides said since he has become president, the yelling has become more frequent and directed at a wider audience of staff.

Tensions were also running high between the White House and Capitol Hill. On top of Pelosi’s anger with the White House last week, frictions ramped up between the speaker and Jayapal. Some Democrats on the Hill also expressed frustration with Klain, who they said had empowered Jayapal and her caucus at the expense of the rest of the party. Klain speaks regularly with a range of members, including moderates such as Gottheimer, a White House official said.

Time to get rid of Klain and Jayapal - they wouldn't compromise. New year, new leadership.

Supposedly, Jayapal has expressed an interest in the Speaker's position if Nancy retires or doesn't run for Speaker (or, more likely, minority leader come 2022).

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.

She can express interest all she wants but she’s not getting it. I don’t even think she’s in House leadership.

The audacity!

Someone's in danger of losing his job looks like

“This is an indictment of the senior leadership in the White House. The worst part is nobody will be held accountable for this. They don't understand the American people want results; they don't want drama and rhetoric,” the House Democrat said in a lengthy rant over the phone. “Everyone has been left high and dry. I can see everyone [vulnerable Democrats] fleeing for the hills at this point,” abandoning Biden and running their own races.

“It started with Afghanistan. Nobody was held accountable for the chaos that the Afghanistan withdrawal constituted. It allowed everyone to get a pass. It sent the message that the president will stick by you so do whatever you want,” the lawmaker continued.

“I do think [Biden] needs to clean house if we have any chance of salvaging 2022. There have to be consequences,” the source added.

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/586572-democrats-descend-into-finger-pointing-after-build-back-better

Jeeze the desperation is real. Ya'll really think Romney is going to save you and vote against the GOP?

Anonymous wrote:Serious question-

If they kept the SALT deduction to $10k and lowered the income limit for the CTC, my guess is the total cost of the bill is closer to Manchin’s affordability number. Why not compromise on that? I see Manchin’s counter offer says basically that.

Umm no it doesn't. Manchin's counter-offer is $1.8B for subsidized ACA, 10 years fully paid for national Pre-K, and Climate. It does not include CTC at all. That's the sticker. White House should have accepted.

Serious question-

If they kept the SALT deduction to $10k and lowered the income limit for the CTC, my guess is the total cost of the bill is closer to Manchin’s affordability number. Why not compromise on that? I see Manchin’s counter offer says basically that.

They got played so hard.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh you mean NOW the liberals want to compromise? The funny thing is two days ago they were talking about putting IMMIGRANTS back in the same bill and weeks ago - attaching paid leave no matter the price. They are a long way off from compromise.

They HAVE been compromising. They agreed to several of Manchin's demands, they also agreed to several Republican demands. Problem is, none of them are actually making demands in good faith.

The real problem is that they were trying to compromise around the one point that he said back in the summer was his line in the sand. He said he could not vote for anything over $1.5T and preferably lower than $1T or close to it.

So far they have been playing a shell game on him, cutting here, adding there and keeping the total around $2T. So, they keep thinking that dangling a matchstick carrot in front of him will get him to budge, but he finally came out and said that they haven't been negotiating on anything close to his bottom line, cutting the package down in size.

This is like the child who asked for a new car for Christmas when the family can afford a bike. They started by asking for a Lexus, then a new muscle car, then a compact car. Now they're down to asking for a fancy motorcycle. And they keep arguing that they have negotiated in good faith, but he won't take any compromises. Sorry, but when you start with a bottom line of "we can't spend more than $X after we had three huge pandemic relief bills and two major natural disaster relief bills and just passed a large infrastructure bill" and the other side says "but we need $Y" then I agree with Manchin. It's time to go home for the break. Maybe the time will get the Democrats to stop listening to the progressive wing and get this bill down to an affordable bill rather than a demand of wish list items that we can't afford right now. Cut the package down to an affordable amount or get nothing. It's pretty easy.

Love (not!) these people who regard children as a luxury good people not in UMC are not "entitled" to (but you still want your uber drivers and your house cleaners and your plumbers and drywall installers and IKEA assemblers and WF workers).

Anyone hear the recent Fresh Air interview about what a mess childcare is in the US--a broken industry and classic example of market failure?

I've read some criticisms that the child care and EC ed provisions could create a big mess. Places that provided more preschool access run into the problem that older preschoolers help subsidize the costs of infant care by daycares (because the infant staff to child ratio has to be higher) and they lose infant care resources, as an example. Federal money that is not block grant could run church based centers out of business apparently. States that refused to expand Medicaid would likely refuse this.

But, we provided child care during WWII so women could build airplanes and bombs.

The question should not be, are you sneering at libs or sneering at GOP. The fact is child care is a public need and the markets aren't taking care of it. The question should be how should this be approached.

The answer to that q should not be Manchin telling his friends working and poor people are just going to buy drugs with the money.

As a percentage of GDP, it would be a drop in the bucket. (Some economists have pointed out that only in the US do they talk in terms of 10 year costs for programs, with $ amounts that freak people out).

Anonymous wrote:Oh you mean NOW the liberals want to compromise? The funny thing is two days ago they were talking about putting IMMIGRANTS back in the same bill and weeks ago - attaching paid leave no matter the price. They are a long way off from compromise.

They HAVE been compromising. They agreed to several of Manchin's demands, they also agreed to several Republican demands. Problem is, none of them are actually making demands in good faith.