Anonymous
Post 08/27/2021 08:41     Subject: What happened to this California family?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I mean I don't think 107 degrees dry heat is that hot for young, fit, outdoorsy, experienced desert hikers. Baby and dog definitely would have had a problem with that level of heat. But all four? Also, wouldn't heat stroke show up in an autopsy?



Is this a troll post? In what world is 107 degrees not "that" hot... even if it's a DRY HEAT.

Yes, and once again, there is no reason to assume they were incapacity at the same time. Baby or dog in distress first, could mean they used a lot of water trying to cool them down, and/or had to carry both. Regardless, once the parents passed out, the baby had no chance, same idpf the dog if it was leashed and couldn’t escape. If not leashed, it probably collapsed before the humans.
Anonymous
Post 08/27/2021 08:36     Subject: What happened to this California family?
I did a hike in that kind of heat in India. After about 15 minutes it felt like we were in a microwave oven. Hosts quickly put us back in AC.
Anonymous
Post 08/27/2021 08:35     Subject: What happened to this California family?
Anonymous wrote:People keep calling them young and healthy. Dad was 45-46 I believe, which is not young.


Just ten years from elderly.
Anonymous
Post 08/27/2021 08:34     Subject: What happened to this California family?
Anonymous wrote:The problem is who the hell brings a baby along for this nightmare hike from hell? Their judgment seems so off as to be indicative of a plan. That’s a long time without a proper nap, cooling off, etc.


Stupid parents.
Anonymous
Post 08/27/2021 08:33     Subject: What happened to this California family?
People keep calling them young and healthy. Dad was 45-46 I believe, which is not young.
Anonymous
Post 08/27/2021 08:32     Subject: What happened to this California family?
Anonymous wrote:I mean I don't think 107 degrees dry heat is that hot for young, fit, outdoorsy, experienced desert hikers. Baby and dog definitely would have had a problem with that level of heat. But all four? Also, wouldn't heat stroke show up in an autopsy?



Is this a troll post? In what world is 107 degrees not "that" hot... even if it's a DRY HEAT.
Anonymous
Post 08/27/2021 08:10     Subject: What happened to this California family?
Anonymous wrote:I mean I don't think 107 degrees dry heat is that hot for young, fit, outdoorsy, experienced desert hikers. Baby and dog definitely would have had a problem with that level of heat. But all four? Also, wouldn't heat stroke show up in an autopsy?

If they were hiking in high heat that would have showed really poor consideration for the baby and the dog. For that reason my guess is they were hiking in the cool morning weather--plus they were seen at ~7:30am. What - they'd go on an hours-long hike with nothing more than one camelback of water? No granola bars for energy, no extra water for the dog, no juice boxes for the baby? Doesn't make sense. These were experienced hikers.

Something other than high heat killed all four. My guess still stands at a freak natural incident of some variety, such as a toxic gas cloud.


Unless you are going to cover the 8 miles and elevation change in an hour, they experienced significant heat. The hottest part of the day is between 10 and 2. starting at 7:30, they needed to be done in 2.5hours. For a flat 8 mile hike, that seems possible. Try making 1000' elevation change with an extra 20 lbs as well... Mistake.
Anonymous
Post 08/27/2021 07:50     Subject: What happened to this California family?
I mean I don't think 107 degrees dry heat is that hot for young, fit, outdoorsy, experienced desert hikers. Baby and dog definitely would have had a problem with that level of heat. But all four? Also, wouldn't heat stroke show up in an autopsy?

If they were hiking in high heat that would have showed really poor consideration for the baby and the dog. For that reason my guess is they were hiking in the cool morning weather--plus they were seen at ~7:30am. What - they'd go on an hours-long hike with nothing more than one camelback of water? No granola bars for energy, no extra water for the dog, no juice boxes for the baby? Doesn't make sense. These were experienced hikers.

Something other than high heat killed all four. My guess still stands at a freak natural incident of some variety, such as a toxic gas cloud.
Anonymous
Post 08/27/2021 07:48     Subject: What happened to this California family?
Anonymous wrote:I’ll bet the dog was struggling with heat stroke and/or burned paws, and they ended up having to carry it uphill in the heat of the day. They both started struggling but she was in better shape so the decision was made for her to go back to the truck. It would make sense for him to stay put with the baby, dog, and water. But she succumbed and he wasn’t able to carry the baby, let alone the dog, Ultimately, the heat got them all.

At some point they could have decided put the dog in the river to cool it off—maybe they even backtracked if it started struggling on the uphill return. If they knew about the toxic algae they could have decided to take the chance if they thought it might save the dog’s life. But even if the dog got better it would probably still need to be helped. So, now they’re way behind schedule and have a big, wet, sick dog to drag uphill in the heat of the day. It could be that the toxicity kicked in around the time they decided she should go for help, and it was the combination of the toxin and heat that got them.


As others have pointed out, I think the autopsy of the dog and tests on the dog are going to give us a lot of the story.

And yeah, I've had lots of big dogs and carrying a sick dog is really hard work because they are dead weight and an awkward shape.
Anonymous
Post 08/27/2021 07:25     Subject: What happened to this California family?
Anonymous wrote:If they had heat stroke, why was there water left in their camel pack?


This has been discussed repeatedly. People may try to save water in a panic, for the baby, etc. want to preserve it because they’re worried and as they become more disoriented.
Anonymous
Post 08/27/2021 07:19     Subject: What happened to this California family?
Anonymous wrote:If you don't believe they all could have died of heat stroke, I recommend the book "Over The Edge: Death in Grand Canyon". People rarely die of murder or from animal attacks. Guess what kills most of the people there? It can be amazing how quickly they perish from the heat. One of the saddest stories was about a pack of boy scouts who had adult leaders who were idiots. Even people who train and have adequate water perish.


Thats a good example of inadequate preparation. They didn't know the trail, didn't have proper permitting, and didn't bring enough water. Park service recommends 1 gallon per person per day for hiking at the GC in the summer.
Anonymous
Post 08/27/2021 07:13     Subject: Re:What happened to this California family?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Another update from websleuths:

“Investigators believe the family hiked most of a grueling 8.5-mile loop — including 5 miles of steep southern exposure trail with little to no trees or shade in 103 to 109 degree heat — before succumbing on the return to their truck on a steep switchback.” Investigators have ruled out 2 causes of death in case of Mariposa family, but still have no answers




I’m fat and indoorsy-how long does it take athletic, experienced hikers to do a difficult 8 mile hike? It does seem awfully crazy to attempt that with a baby. I’m guessing at least 3 hours or so? Do babies actually want to chill out in a hiking backpack for that long?


I think at least 3 hours given that there is a significant elevation climb. 4 seems more realistic. And given that someone saw them on the way to the biking spot at 7:45 that means they didn’t start until at least 8 which is way too late to be starting that kind of hike in that kind of weather. I’m from the SW and people usually start any outdoor activity between 5 and 6 in the summer—you want or be done well before 10. You also wouldn’t take a hairy dog like an Akita on that kind of hike that late. If this 8.5 mile hike is really the story, I am starting to think heat exhaustion or possibly recreational drugs that impaired judgment and possibly also impaired their physiology.
Also, let me say, if my husband ever did want to kill me, I’d be particularly pissed if he did it after an 8 mile uphill hike in 100+ weather. I mean, at least have the decency to do it before I’ve suffered.


The timing doesn't seem to make sense. If they started at 8 am, then they would be returning up a steep climb in the heat of the day and heat seems to be the obvious conclusion. But the neighbor who saw them may have been imprecise with the time, it could have been earlier (or later). The cell phone GPS data, indicating when they arrived at the trailhead, would probably be more accurate.



That's probably why the warrant for the phone.
Anonymous
Post 08/27/2021 07:12     Subject: What happened to this California family?
Anonymous wrote:I hope this does not become one of those unsolved mysteries. Everyone following and especially family/friends needs closure on this.


The autopsy/toxicology report will know cause of death. It's not like the McStay family https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McStay_family_murders which was unsolved until the bodies were found three years later.
Anonymous
Post 08/27/2021 07:10     Subject: What happened to this California family?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The temperature was not hot. It was beyond hot. The trail they were on was difficult. They were not prepared for what they were attempting.

The baby and dog should never have been there.

From their social media it appears they were very outdoorsy and we assume they were knowledgeable about the risks. Maybe they weren't.


Posting pics of one’s self hiking on IG is all about appearing outdoorsy, not being outdoorsy.


Their AllTrails accounts show lots of hikes. They were experienced hikers.
Anonymous
Post 08/27/2021 07:06     Subject: What happened to this California family?
Anonymous wrote:The temperature was not hot. It was beyond hot. The trail they were on was difficult. They were not prepared for what they were attempting.

The baby and dog should never have been there.

From their social media it appears they were very outdoorsy and we assume they were knowledgeable about the risks. Maybe they weren't.


Posting pics of one’s self hiking on IG is all about appearing outdoorsy, not being outdoorsy.