Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People rave about Turkey...but having spent time in Armenia, I can't get past the fact that Turkey committed attempted genocide against Armenia and still won't admit it.

https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/ref/timestopics/topics_armeniangenocide.html?onwardjourney=584162_v1

I just can't get past that.

Does anyone else have trouble visiting a country for social justice reasons?

I also love Turkey. But the US has never made reparations for slavery so its not like we can throw stones. We still literally have reservations when Native Americans live in poverty. Who are we to judge?

Anonymous wrote:People rave about Turkey...but having spent time in Armenia, I can't get past the fact that Turkey committed attempted genocide against Armenia and still won't admit it.

https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/ref/timestopics/topics_armeniangenocide.html?onwardjourney=584162_v1

I just can't get past that.

Does anyone else have trouble visiting a country for social justice reasons?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Places I have not enjoyed at all include:

Madrid- it’s just like visiting a landlocked NYC but without Broadway, fashion, or modern art. Too big and hard to navigate.

Cologne- just incredibly boring and nothing to see beyond the church and the chocolate factory.

Brussels. It’s okay but the third time I visited I found some charming places. I wouldn’t go out of my way to visit though.

Amsterdam- okay the first time, but terribly overcrowded much of the year.

Galveston- just too hot and too many jellyfish

San Francisco and Portland- too many drug addicts and felt very very unsafe

Western Europe as a whole: overpriced, dingy and unfriendly- would be interested in seeing more of Eastern Europe

Beijing - crazy scale, felt lost in the crowd

Loved:
- Istanbul, Turkey as a whole, Greece, Paris, also loved Belize but stayed on an island there, loved NW Pakistan mountains, loved Bavaria and Austria in the winter, Shanghai, Kyoto, Hiroshima

Loved in the US: Scottsdale, Palm Beach, Bar Harbor, Detroit, Shenandoah Valley, Breckenridge, anywhere Montana, loved Hillsboro but scared of Portland, Orange County

Madrid struck me almost the exact same way. It's like, "What if we took Midtown Manhattan and made it the entire city." Not saying there aren't parts of Madrid that are interesting, but I found a lot of it to be soulless and sterile.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People rave about Turkey...but having spent time in Armenia, I can't get past the fact that Turkey committed attempted genocide against Armenia and still won't admit it.

https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/ref/timestopics/topics_armeniangenocide.html?onwardjourney=584162_v1

I just can't get past that.

Does anyone else have trouble visiting a country for social justice reasons?

This is interesting. I am aware of the attempted genocide, but it was 100 years ago. Literally everyone who participated in it or committed it is dead, the government has turned over many times, so I view it as an unsavory piece of history. If you started disqualifying countries for unsavory historical episodes there would be nowhere to visit.

That said, there are certain (current) regimes that I wouldn’t support with my tourist dollars, even if my safety were guaranteed. Putin’s Russia, North Korea, and China, for example.

Anonymous wrote:New Orleans. I didn't hate it ,but I didn't like it either.

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Anonymous wrote:Rio, Sao Paulo, probably all of Brazil. I don't like how the abject poverty abuts the nicest of places. I know this exists, but it destroys my vacation to think about the starving children beggers while I'm trying to relax and enjoy myself or while im buying a nice sundress. The scenery, other than the flavelas, is very pretty, but a culture where that is acceptable is ugly.

US culture is no different and in fact, arguably worse as we are so rich yet accept homelessness and poverty as inevitable.

Nah, we are geographically separated so it doesn't ruin my experience.

Vacationing in your bubble. How adventuresome!

Some of us want a relaxing nice time in a safe place different from where we live. I don't need adventure. That was for my 20s. I'm in my mid 50s, I've graduated to luxury - and I've earned that!

There is a difference between wanting luxury and not wanting to be reminded poor people exist. Unless of course they are serving you in your resort. Do you realize how ignorant that sounds?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Places I have not enjoyed at all include:

Madrid- it’s just like visiting a landlocked NYC but without Broadway, fashion, or modern art. Too big and hard to navigate.

Cologne- just incredibly boring and nothing to see beyond the church and the chocolate factory.

Brussels. It’s okay but the third time I visited I found some charming places. I wouldn’t go out of my way to visit though.

Amsterdam- okay the first time, but terribly overcrowded much of the year.

Galveston- just too hot and too many jellyfish

San Francisco and Portland- too many drug addicts and felt very very unsafe

Western Europe as a whole: overpriced, dingy and unfriendly- would be interested in seeing more of Eastern Europe

Beijing - crazy scale, felt lost in the crowd

Loved:
- Istanbul, Turkey as a whole, Greece, Paris, also loved Belize but stayed on an island there, loved NW Pakistan mountains, loved Bavaria and Austria in the winter, Shanghai, Kyoto, Hiroshima

Loved in the US: Scottsdale, Palm Beach, Bar Harbor, Detroit, Shenandoah Valley, Breckenridge, anywhere Montana, loved Hillsboro but scared of Portland, Orange County

How to tell us you’re a suburban white lady without telling us you’re a suburban white lady

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Places I have not enjoyed at all include:

Madrid- it’s just like visiting a landlocked NYC but without Broadway, fashion, or modern art. Too big and hard to navigate.

Cologne- just incredibly boring and nothing to see beyond the church and the chocolate factory.

Brussels. It’s okay but the third time I visited I found some charming places. I wouldn’t go out of my way to visit though.

Amsterdam- okay the first time, but terribly overcrowded much of the year.

Galveston- just too hot and too many jellyfish

San Francisco and Portland- too many drug addicts and felt very very unsafe

Western Europe as a whole: overpriced, dingy and unfriendly- would be interested in seeing more of Eastern Europe

Beijing - crazy scale, felt lost in the crowd

Loved:
- Istanbul, Turkey as a whole, Greece, Paris, also loved Belize but stayed on an island there, loved NW Pakistan mountains, loved Bavaria and Austria in the winter, Shanghai, Kyoto, Hiroshima

Loved in the US: Scottsdale, Palm Beach, Bar Harbor, Detroit, Shenandoah Valley, Breckenridge, anywhere Montana, loved Hillsboro but scared of Portland, Orange County

Madrid struck me almost the exact same way. It's like, "What if we took Midtown Manhattan and made it the entire city." Not saying there aren't parts of Madrid that are interesting, but I found a lot of it to be soulless and sterile.

You must have never left your hotel?

I forgot that all opinions must match yours. My bad.

You sound fun.

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Anonymous wrote:I would not go back to India. Hard in many ways.

Only, if you are traveling like the poorest of the poor.

I only luxury travel to and in India. I fly business class in middle eastern airlines (Emirates or Etihad), stop over at Abu Dhabi or Dubai, go in luxury and comfort and minimize the impact of jet lag, Then, I either stay with my family/friends who have extra room, AC, well established homes and servants - or I stay in expensive 5 star hotels. I hire the best and most expensive touring vehicles available and drivers that are known to the family or have great reviews. And I travel mainly with family or friends. I also shop a lot and get all my bulky stuff couriered to US.

India is not a place to do on shoe-string budget travel. If you do that then you have to be inconvenienced sometimes. However, India is still incredibly cheaper than US or Europe so it boggles my mind that westerners want to travel in the way the poorest of the poor are travelling there. If you spend a fraction of your money that you spend in a Western country and stay in good hotels and take taxis from proper registered taxi service, you will have an experience of comfort and luxury.

Nothing beats the food in India. Not one country I have visited has better food than India (ok, Thailand is amazing food too).

Sorry but no. We traveled richest of the rich. You still see things out the windows of your "best and most expensive touring vehicle". The poverty is appalling and the way Indians treat their most vulnerable is appalling. But I'm glad you go back and do all your shopping and can't relate to your countrymen. Just intent on getting the shopping done and the food shoveled in, huh?

What a weird thing to say. For many of us India is our country of origin. We go back to see family, and yes we travel business class, stay in nice hotels, shop and eat while we’re there.

And like the pp pointed out: the abject poverty and obvious caste system doesn’t bother you at all.

Remember the Seinfeld episode with the wedding in India? Even the bride’s Indian parents refused to go.

It’s my homeland. I go to see my family. If that sounds strange to you then so be it. And Seinfeld was a comedy show in case you didn’t know.

Of COURSE it makes sense for people to go whose family lives there. The point is whether it is an enjoyable place to go just as a normal tourist. I think most people in the latter case say it’s an experience and they might be glad they did it once but it is rarely a spot tourists fall in love with.

DP here. I just posted that India was awful. The poor begging on the streets really made it uncomfortable. I stayed at the best resorts. The staff suffocated me by asking me how they could assist me. I remember the perfume stench at the hotels was nauseating. I love to Indian food occasionally in America. I hated every meal I had in India.

I have an Indian friend who loves to visit her family and says how she used to always get lice when she went. How is that enjoyable?!?!?

there are panhandlers everywhere- its not just the poor filthy children- its the nastyness with which you'll see someone smile a big beaming smile at you while using a harsh voice to deny the humanity of the child standing right next to you. Mark twain observed that there is a lot of humanity in India for everything except the humans. Indians are just so ... New money ... and hustle and elbows out. I love visiting and have family on both sides of the border but despite Pakistan objectively being a failed state with no hope or future- the level of calm and just "dialed down a few notches" ness and even prosperity that you feel immediatly crossing the border is remarkable. The cities of Mumbai and Delhi and even Jaipur which i love are so advanced but the denizens have littel grace. everyone is so bent on getting their own- the selfishness is breathtaking and disturbing. People who know you are so warm and loving but you can see how they treat everyone they deem not worthy and the contrast is so jarring. They seem less genuine b/c of that.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People rave about Turkey...but having spent time in Armenia, I can't get past the fact that Turkey committed attempted genocide against Armenia and still won't admit it.

https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/ref/timestopics/topics_armeniangenocide.html?onwardjourney=584162_v1

I just can't get past that.

Does anyone else have trouble visiting a country for social justice reasons?

People rave about Japan but I’ve always been ambivalent about visiting because of their xenophobia and patriarchal culture, plus their awful fisheries industry.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People rave about Turkey...but having spent time in Armenia, I can't get past the fact that Turkey committed attempted genocide against Armenia and still won't admit it.

https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/ref/timestopics/topics_armeniangenocide.html?onwardjourney=584162_v1

I just can't get past that.

Does anyone else have trouble visiting a country for social justice reasons?

This is interesting. I am aware of the attempted genocide, but it was 100 years ago. Literally everyone who participated in it or committed it is dead, the government has turned over many times, so I view it as an unsavory piece of history. If you started disqualifying countries for unsavory historical episodes there would be nowhere to visit.

That said, there are certain (current) regimes that I wouldn’t support with my tourist dollars, even if my safety were guaranteed. Putin’s Russia, North Korea, and China, for example.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Places I have not enjoyed at all include:

Madrid- it’s just like visiting a landlocked NYC but without Broadway, fashion, or modern art. Too big and hard to navigate.

Cologne- just incredibly boring and nothing to see beyond the church and the chocolate factory.

Brussels. It’s okay but the third time I visited I found some charming places. I wouldn’t go out of my way to visit though.

Amsterdam- okay the first time, but terribly overcrowded much of the year.

Galveston- just too hot and too many jellyfish

San Francisco and Portland- too many drug addicts and felt very very unsafe

Western Europe as a whole: overpriced, dingy and unfriendly- would be interested in seeing more of Eastern Europe

Beijing - crazy scale, felt lost in the crowd

Loved:
- Istanbul, Turkey as a whole, Greece, Paris, also loved Belize but stayed on an island there, loved NW Pakistan mountains, loved Bavaria and Austria in the winter, Shanghai, Kyoto, Hiroshima

Loved in the US: Scottsdale, Palm Beach, Bar Harbor, Detroit, Shenandoah Valley, Breckenridge, anywhere Montana, loved Hillsboro but scared of Portland, Orange County

How to tell us you’re a suburban white lady without telling us you’re a suburban white lady