Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You don’t have a propped door; you don’t have an ingress point. It is not delusional to focus on the door.

If you don’t have guns overflowing every orifice of your state, you don’t have 19 little kids blown to bits. Just SHUT up.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like the propped door is being bizarrely underdiscussed by the media.

I don’t see why? Fresh air helps, especially in a fourth grade classroom.

Did the school get upgraded air filters during Covid? If not, maybe this was how they mitigated.

Focusing on a propped door as the evil causer rather than the gun is delusional.

Anonymous wrote:You don’t have a propped door; you don’t have an ingress point. It is not delusional to focus on the door.

Anonymous wrote:I feel like the propped door is being bizarrely underdiscussed by the media.

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Anonymous wrote:I would have had some create a distraction so others could get past and get in there.

uh-huh

NP, I know there is often grandstanding on this board and it’s hard to say with certainty what someone would do when faced with mortal danger but I do think a large percentage of parents would do anything they could to save their child in this situation. In fact most parents would die without hesitation to save their child.

+1
It’s possible the police would have had to shoot me in the back to stop me from running in there. I can’t imagine the helpless horror those poor kids and parents felt. Extra cruel.

The cops did not stop the BP officer who showed just kind of feed the narrative that the cops were scared.

Some of the cops stepped forward and provided him cover while he rescued kids.

1 or 2 did after 19 waited around for 40 minutes because they were scared.

More than two. Let’s at least give them their due, given they were being told to stand down by their chief.

Is there new info or more details? Last I heard it was a group of 3-4 that went in with 1-2 being sheriff's deputies. I'll praise whomever deserves praise.

So they helped a buddy get his kids but handcuffed others?

Im sure orhers did but in this case we're talking about the assault team led by the off-duty CBP guy. At least one sheriff's deputy and one other CBP joined. I'm not sure how big a group it was but it was small. What's worse is the CBP borrowed the ballistic shield from the Uvalde guys who were too scared.

The article I read said it was him, 2 officers providing cover, and 2 more helping escort children to safety. He evacuated the wing his child was in, but it doesn't sound like he started with his child's class (whether that's intentional I couldn't say). I remember a line that was something like when he found his child, he gave them a hug and sent them out with the other officers and continued evacuating the other children in that wing.


I've heard the stories about some cops going in and getting their children out, but the DPS director said that wasn't true, and I haven't found any articles backing it up. This is the closest I can find to that rumor. Cops going in and getting out individual kids is inexcusable, but what this CBP agent did, leading a team and evacuating a whole wing (even if he picked that wing because his child was there), especially if they'd been told to stand down, I can at least understand it and support it to an extent. Their training was to take out the shooter first, but as much of a clusterf*** as this has been, at least he did something valuable.

One parent did go in and come out only with her own kids. Could she have taken others? I mean, since we are critiquing, right?

You mean the unarmed, no tactical gear having mom that was handcuffed by the police? The one that as soon as the handcuffs were removed, ran as fast as she could AWAY from the police to the school, jumped the fence, ran into the school with an active shooter, found her kids and ran out?

That mom?

You think that’s the same as police officers, trained and armed police officers, that were not just shouted at and handcuffed by police officers?

I didn’t say it was the same? I know for a fact, though, I would have brought other kids. You are morally bound to do so. Police were wrong but once she knew she could get her own kids out, you take others. YMMV

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Anonymous wrote:I would have had some create a distraction so others could get past and get in there.

uh-huh

NP, I know there is often grandstanding on this board and it’s hard to say with certainty what someone would do when faced with mortal danger but I do think a large percentage of parents would do anything they could to save their child in this situation. In fact most parents would die without hesitation to save their child.

+1
It’s possible the police would have had to shoot me in the back to stop me from running in there. I can’t imagine the helpless horror those poor kids and parents felt. Extra cruel.

The cops did not stop the BP officer who showed just kind of feed the narrative that the cops were scared.

Some of the cops stepped forward and provided him cover while he rescued kids.

1 or 2 did after 19 waited around for 40 minutes because they were scared.

More than two. Let’s at least give them their due, given they were being told to stand down by their chief.

Is there new info or more details? Last I heard it was a group of 3-4 that went in with 1-2 being sheriff's deputies. I'll praise whomever deserves praise.

So they helped a buddy get his kids but handcuffed others?

Im sure orhers did but in this case we're talking about the assault team led by the off-duty CBP guy. At least one sheriff's deputy and one other CBP joined. I'm not sure how big a group it was but it was small. What's worse is the CBP borrowed the ballistic shield from the Uvalde guys who were too scared.

The article I read said it was him, 2 officers providing cover, and 2 more helping escort children to safety. He evacuated the wing his child was in, but it doesn't sound like he started with his child's class (whether that's intentional I couldn't say). I remember a line that was something like when he found his child, he gave them a hug and sent them out with the other officers and continued evacuating the other children in that wing.


I've heard the stories about some cops going in and getting their children out, but the DPS director said that wasn't true, and I haven't found any articles backing it up. This is the closest I can find to that rumor. Cops going in and getting out individual kids is inexcusable, but what this CBP agent did, leading a team and evacuating a whole wing (even if he picked that wing because his child was there), especially if they'd been told to stand down, I can at least understand it and support it to an extent. Their training was to take out the shooter first, but as much of a clusterf*** as this has been, at least he did something valuable.

One parent did go in and come out only with her own kids. Could she have taken others? I mean, since we are critiquing, right?

You mean the unarmed, no tactical gear having mom that was handcuffed by the police? The one that as soon as the handcuffs were removed, ran as fast as she could AWAY from the police to the school, jumped the fence, ran into the school with an active shooter, found her kids and ran out?

That mom?

You think that’s the same as police officers, trained and armed police officers, that were not just shouted at and handcuffed by police officers?

I didn’t say it was the same? I know for a fact, though, I would have brought other kids. You are morally bound to do so. Police were wrong but once she knew she could get her own kids out, you take others. YMMV

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.cnn.com/2022/05/27/us/uvalde-shooting-police-response-timeline/index.html


According to the timeline, the cops didn’t stand around while the shooter was “killing babies”. The high likelihood is he did all his murders in the first 15 minutes of entry.

They were at the door within minutes. Imagine the possibility that some of those children bled out while they waited, and possibly could have been saved had they breached the door earlier.
No, they didn't pull the trigger, and the shooter is ultimately responsible. But what they did was indefensible.
Do you have kids? Can you imagine the abject terror of the children locked in that room with a gunman for over an hour, begging for help from police? It sickens me to look at my Teo young children and imagine them going through that...or anyone else's kids.

That is an absolutely lie. There are 9/11 calls within the timeline of the cops standing outside the door from kids inside the classroom pleading for 'police' only to be dead once they breeched it 90 minutes in.

He entered classrooms 111/112 at 11:33AM. A female student IN THOSE CLASSROOMS called police at 12:03PM and again at 12:13PM. And a third time at 12:16PM. She reported that at least 9 of her classmates were still alive.

A child was on the phone from 12:36PM - 12:47PM. The mass shooter died at 12:58PM.

https://apnews.com/article/texas-school-shooting-timeline-6069b0cf01e5f732ef55f9fd0b7109d7

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would have had some create a distraction so others could get past and get in there.

uh-huh

NP, I know there is often grandstanding on this board and it’s hard to say with certainty what someone would do when faced with mortal danger but I do think a large percentage of parents would do anything they could to save their child in this situation. In fact most parents would die without hesitation to save their child.

+1
It’s possible the police would have had to shoot me in the back to stop me from running in there. I can’t imagine the helpless horror those poor kids and parents felt. Extra cruel.

The cops did not stop the BP officer who showed just kind of feed the narrative that the cops were scared.

Some of the cops stepped forward and provided him cover while he rescued kids.

1 or 2 did after 19 waited around for 40 minutes because they were scared.

More than two. Let’s at least give them their due, given they were being told to stand down by their chief.

Is there new info or more details? Last I heard it was a group of 3-4 that went in with 1-2 being sheriff's deputies. I'll praise whomever deserves praise.

So they helped a buddy get his kids but handcuffed others?

Im sure orhers did but in this case we're talking about the assault team led by the off-duty CBP guy. At least one sheriff's deputy and one other CBP joined. I'm not sure how big a group it was but it was small. What's worse is the CBP borrowed the ballistic shield from the Uvalde guys who were too scared.

The article I read said it was him, 2 officers providing cover, and 2 more helping escort children to safety. He evacuated the wing his child was in, but it doesn't sound like he started with his child's class (whether that's intentional I couldn't say). I remember a line that was something like when he found his child, he gave them a hug and sent them out with the other officers and continued evacuating the other children in that wing.


I've heard the stories about some cops going in and getting their children out, but the DPS director said that wasn't true, and I haven't found any articles backing it up. This is the closest I can find to that rumor. Cops going in and getting out individual kids is inexcusable, but what this CBP agent did, leading a team and evacuating a whole wing (even if he picked that wing because his child was there), especially if they'd been told to stand down, I can at least understand it and support it to an extent. Their training was to take out the shooter first, but as much of a clusterf*** as this has been, at least he did something valuable.

One parent did go in and come out only with her own kids. Could she have taken others? I mean, since we are critiquing, right?

You mean the unarmed, no tactical gear having mom that was handcuffed by the police? The one that as soon as the handcuffs were removed, ran as fast as she could AWAY from the police to the school, jumped the fence, ran into the school with an active shooter, found her kids and ran out?

That mom?

You think that’s the same as police officers, trained and armed police officers, that were not just shouted at and handcuffed by police officers?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would have had some create a distraction so others could get past and get in there.

uh-huh

NP, I know there is often grandstanding on this board and it’s hard to say with certainty what someone would do when faced with mortal danger but I do think a large percentage of parents would do anything they could to save their child in this situation. In fact most parents would die without hesitation to save their child.

+1
It’s possible the police would have had to shoot me in the back to stop me from running in there. I can’t imagine the helpless horror those poor kids and parents felt. Extra cruel.

The cops did not stop the BP officer who showed just kind of feed the narrative that the cops were scared.

Some of the cops stepped forward and provided him cover while he rescued kids.

1 or 2 did after 19 waited around for 40 minutes because they were scared.

More than two. Let’s at least give them their due, given they were being told to stand down by their chief.

Is there new info or more details? Last I heard it was a group of 3-4 that went in with 1-2 being sheriff's deputies. I'll praise whomever deserves praise.

So they helped a buddy get his kids but handcuffed others?

Im sure orhers did but in this case we're talking about the assault team led by the off-duty CBP guy. At least one sheriff's deputy and one other CBP joined. I'm not sure how big a group it was but it was small. What's worse is the CBP borrowed the ballistic shield from the Uvalde guys who were too scared.

The article I read said it was him, 2 officers providing cover, and 2 more helping escort children to safety. He evacuated the wing his child was in, but it doesn't sound like he started with his child's class (whether that's intentional I couldn't say). I remember a line that was something like when he found his child, he gave them a hug and sent them out with the other officers and continued evacuating the other children in that wing.


I've heard the stories about some cops going in and getting their children out, but the DPS director said that wasn't true, and I haven't found any articles backing it up. This is the closest I can find to that rumor. Cops going in and getting out individual kids is inexcusable, but what this CBP agent did, leading a team and evacuating a whole wing (even if he picked that wing because his child was there), especially if they'd been told to stand down, I can at least understand it and support it to an extent. Their training was to take out the shooter first, but as much of a clusterf*** as this has been, at least he did something valuable.

One parent did go in and come out only with her own kids. Could she have taken others? I mean, since we are critiquing, right?

You mean the unarmed, no tactical gear having mom that was handcuffed by the police? The one that as soon as the handcuffs were removed, ran as fast as she could AWAY from the police to the school, jumped the fence, ran into the school with an active shooter, found her kids and ran out?

That mom?

You think that’s the same as police officers, trained and armed police officers, that were not just shouted at and handcuffed by police officers?

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Anonymous wrote:You know what would have made this less likely to happen? Age limits on guns. This is out of control. Teenagers should not be allowed to buy these weapons.

18 year olds who serve this country have guns placed in their hands. Minimum age to be a police officer is 18-21, depending on the state.

Those 18 year olds have extensive training drilled into them.

If you don't agree with age limits, do you think we should require 6 months of training before purchasing a gun? For everyone?

Not only that! They have to undergo background checks to get into service in e first place. I’m fine using that standard! If an 18 year old wants a gun he should be able to get security clearance first

This 18 year old had a background check. Sadly, he passed.

Why wouldn't he have passed? 18-year-olds have clear records that are sealed from juvenile offenses which starts the day they turn 18. He waited and he pounced. Stupidity.

EXACTLY. Do we really want the records sealed of cold blooded killers and crazies just because they hit a magic age?

The kid didn't have a record...neither did the shooters of Majory Stoneman Douglas or Sandy Hook or Las Vegas Mandalay Bay or Isla Vista or Charleston.

What EXACTLY do you plan to do to combat these teen boys with with no state or federal prison records, no prior arrests, and not even a parking ticket that are snapping and getting weapons of mass war from parents or grandparents?

Here’s his record, though.

Uvalde gunman threatened rapes, school shootings on Yubo app in lead up to the massacre, users say
https://www.cnn.com/2022/05/27/us/yubo-app-salvador-ramos-threats-invs/index.html

That is not a record you idiot. Its a social media history. Now if the GOP would stop standing in the way of a domestic terrorism bill it could be USED to arrest terrorists like this mass murderer the same way the Patriot Act went after Muslim Americans. But of course they won't do that.

I know that’s not a record, don’t be a d|ck. If anyone had reported the threats, he would have had one, though.

And here’s what happened when people reported this:

Of course. Can we take domestic violence and violence against women more serious for THIS reason, America? These POS always have a history of it but the cops don’t care until they hurt a man or child. Or in these case, expose them for the cowards and cosplayers they are.

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Anonymous wrote:I would have had some create a distraction so others could get past and get in there.

uh-huh

NP, I know there is often grandstanding on this board and it’s hard to say with certainty what someone would do when faced with mortal danger but I do think a large percentage of parents would do anything they could to save their child in this situation. In fact most parents would die without hesitation to save their child.

+1
It’s possible the police would have had to shoot me in the back to stop me from running in there. I can’t imagine the helpless horror those poor kids and parents felt. Extra cruel.

The cops did not stop the BP officer who showed just kind of feed the narrative that the cops were scared.

Some of the cops stepped forward and provided him cover while he rescued kids.

1 or 2 did after 19 waited around for 40 minutes because they were scared.

More than two. Let’s at least give them their due, given they were being told to stand down by their chief.

Is there new info or more details? Last I heard it was a group of 3-4 that went in with 1-2 being sheriff's deputies. I'll praise whomever deserves praise.

So they helped a buddy get his kids but handcuffed others?

Im sure orhers did but in this case we're talking about the assault team led by the off-duty CBP guy. At least one sheriff's deputy and one other CBP joined. I'm not sure how big a group it was but it was small. What's worse is the CBP borrowed the ballistic shield from the Uvalde guys who were too scared.

The article I read said it was him, 2 officers providing cover, and 2 more helping escort children to safety. He evacuated the wing his child was in, but it doesn't sound like he started with his child's class (whether that's intentional I couldn't say). I remember a line that was something like when he found his child, he gave them a hug and sent them out with the other officers and continued evacuating the other children in that wing.


I've heard the stories about some cops going in and getting their children out, but the DPS director said that wasn't true, and I haven't found any articles backing it up. This is the closest I can find to that rumor. Cops going in and getting out individual kids is inexcusable, but what this CBP agent did, leading a team and evacuating a whole wing (even if he picked that wing because his child was there), especially if they'd been told to stand down, I can at least understand it and support it to an extent. Their training was to take out the shooter first, but as much of a clusterf*** as this has been, at least he did something valuable.

One parent did go in and come out only with her own kids. Could she have taken others? I mean, since we are critiquing, right?

I did think the same thing but if something had gone badly....it is one thing to risk your own children but is it ok to risk others?

I don't think this mom can be judged for that. Is it ok to take others children with you? She was not LEO or a person of any authority. Maybe she thought about that and decided she better not.