Anonymous wrote:17 year old Kate was accepted to Berklee School of Music, so Kate is definitely talented. That's a tough admit. She doesn't have a degree in music, but she can play the piano and sing.

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Anonymous wrote:I'd like to shift discussion to how annoying Jack and Rebecca are as parents. It's definitely mostly the writing, though the acting doesn't help. They are so overly expressive--SUCH GREAT PARENTS, we get it--nobody talks to their kids like this.

Where was Randall in all those pool scenes? Off reading a book or something? My mom radar was going off when I didn't see him with either parent.

DP. He was off swimming with no parental help. Which is what I found interesting - he didn't have his usual anxiety in the water.

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Anonymous wrote:The problem was that Toby didn't consult Kate about anything. He didn't tell her he had been offered the job in LA before turning it down. When she finds out about it, he doesn't want to tell her what the salary was. Maybe it was for a lot less, but maybe it was for less, but not so much less than when you take cost of living in LA vs SF into account the choice was very clear cut.

He takes her to see a house and says she has to decide to buy it the day after tomorrow. It's the third time he's seen the house. He's already applied for a loan. He hasn't discussed any of this with her. Maybe Kate might want to check out other houses and neighborhoods to see what she likes. Has he figured out where the closest good school for the blind is, what transportation would be involved, good daycare and schools for Haley, parks and playgrounds, etc.? Even long distance, you'd think he'd at least he'd have discussed the possibility of moving to SF with Kate and she would have spent some time researching this sort of thing.

He calls a Lyft without asking Kate if she wants to walk.

He can't come meet her at the airport because he's on a call. He takes a call when they go for a walk. He has to take a call in the morning. But he gets mad at Kate for calling the kids when they go for a walk!

It's not just the healthy lifestyle--it's ditching Kate at the party to discuss a pick for a fantasy football team;telling her waht she should talk about with his co-workers at the cocktail party, making reservations at very pricey, trendy restaurants--again without consulting Kate; buying expensive champagne, etc.

Yes! All of this!

Toby is a walking red flag with his behavior. He has not put her first since he took this job. He couldn't even have a nice weekend with her - only wanted to do it on his terms. He also seems "manic" almost. Perhaps the green egg sends him in a spiral down. Ugh, will be tough to watch.

+1

Toby, for a while now, has been living as if part of his mind sees himself as single. No need to consult on anything. His defensive "You want NUMBERS?!" at Kate, rather than just telling her the salary he'd been offered, was something I wish Kate had called him out on more strongly -- it's so transparent that he hadn't gotten his story straight on what he'd tell her about this job offer. If it was really a poor offer as he said, why not just tell her salary? The list above where PP notes the many ways he was either ignoring her (calls, calls, calls; fantasy football; dictating conversational topics etc.) plus how he was making choices for both of them, was all way beyond the pale. Someone said here that she wants to be together but only on her terms and i don't see that -- I see Toby acting like he's basically single, not her partner. Giving her the "if we want to be a family that has to happen in SF" ultimatum? Wow. I'd leave him too.

He’s probably making at least two to three times more than Kate as a TA. This is pretty simple to me. If he goes to SF and it’s a good fit, then Kate needs to move to SF. And yes, it almost always comes down to money.

Not when you have a special needs child and dying mother.

Um, 2 to 3 times as much? She works PT in a low skilled job, probably makes 20K. He makes 10-20x what she does. Even if she does get Janice's job, with no degree etc. she'll be at the very low end of the pay scale so maybe 50-60k?

And she's told her mom she can't care for the kids solo anymore so who takes care of them when Kate moves to FT as a geographic single parent? Makes zero sense, so unrealistic. Even with decent child support, seems like the numbers don't work.

The numbers haven't ever worked for me for the Pearson parents, either.

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Anonymous wrote:Let's be real here. How could Toby afford that house?? I realize tech people make a lot of money, but come on. He's been at that job a few months. No way they are throwing that kind of cash at him. San Fran is the most expensive city in the US, and they have no support system there at all. I don't blame Kate for not wanting to move there. Yes, I'm sure Toby would make more money there, but it would be completely eaten up by the cost of living.

I also love that they make it seem like the house would be theirs if they put in an offer. No other bidders, I'm sure!

This is a really good hidden point. I would expect *if* he can somehow qualify for that house just on his salary, which is relatively new so somewhat suspect that he was pre approved without 2 years seasoning, but I digress with my financial background. They’d be incredibly house-poor. Then on top of that, it would force Kate to be a SAHM, which would be a huge step back for her (child care is incredibly expensive in SF it wouldn’t make financial sense for her to work a low-paying teaching job). And absolutely no family support means you have to pay for every minute of child care. With a preschooler with special needs.

I suspect the house surprise is a “big Toby” gesture, and she’s finally balking at those, with good reason. She has to be all in to make this move work. She’s clearly not. And she doesn’t need Toby for emotional support like she used to.

That said, I don’t think she’s at the point she’s going to break up her family. This is the groundwork. I guess the green egg will be the catalyst for that?

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Anonymous wrote:The problem was that Toby didn't consult Kate about anything. He didn't tell her he had been offered the job in LA before turning it down. When she finds out about it, he doesn't want to tell her what the salary was. Maybe it was for a lot less, but maybe it was for less, but not so much less than when you take cost of living in LA vs SF into account the choice was very clear cut.

He takes her to see a house and says she has to decide to buy it the day after tomorrow. It's the third time he's seen the house. He's already applied for a loan. He hasn't discussed any of this with her. Maybe Kate might want to check out other houses and neighborhoods to see what she likes. Has he figured out where the closest good school for the blind is, what transportation would be involved, good daycare and schools for Haley, parks and playgrounds, etc.? Even long distance, you'd think he'd at least he'd have discussed the possibility of moving to SF with Kate and she would have spent some time researching this sort of thing.

He calls a Lyft without asking Kate if she wants to walk.

He can't come meet her at the airport because he's on a call. He takes a call when they go for a walk. He has to take a call in the morning. But he gets mad at Kate for calling the kids when they go for a walk!

It's not just the healthy lifestyle--it's ditching Kate at the party to discuss a pick for a fantasy football team;telling her waht she should talk about with his co-workers at the cocktail party, making reservations at very pricey, trendy restaurants--again without consulting Kate; buying expensive champagne, etc.

Yes! All of this!

Toby is a walking red flag with his behavior. He has not put her first since he took this job. He couldn't even have a nice weekend with her - only wanted to do it on his terms. He also seems "manic" almost. Perhaps the green egg sends him in a spiral down. Ugh, will be tough to watch.

+1

Toby, for a while now, has been living as if part of his mind sees himself as single. No need to consult on anything. His defensive "You want NUMBERS?!" at Kate, rather than just telling her the salary he'd been offered, was something I wish Kate had called him out on more strongly -- it's so transparent that he hadn't gotten his story straight on what he'd tell her about this job offer. If it was really a poor offer as he said, why not just tell her salary? The list above where PP notes the many ways he was either ignoring her (calls, calls, calls; fantasy football; dictating conversational topics etc.) plus how he was making choices for both of them, was all way beyond the pale. Someone said here that she wants to be together but only on her terms and i don't see that -- I see Toby acting like he's basically single, not her partner. Giving her the "if we want to be a family that has to happen in SF" ultimatum? Wow. I'd leave him too.

He’s probably making at least two to three times more than Kate as a TA. This is pretty simple to me. If he goes to SF and it’s a good fit, then Kate needs to move to SF. And yes, it almost always comes down to money.

Did Toby find this thread?

How do you defend his not being willing to tell Kate the salary for the LA job he rejected, then, if it was a no-brainer for him to reject it? Why be so resistant to telling his wife about the offer in the first place, much less telling her the salary? And "kate needs to move to SF" sounds exactly like the ultimatum he gave her. I'm really surprised at people defending him when he is doing things most of us would find very problematic in real relationships, like starting the process to buy a specific house without telling her. He is not a partner any more, but she's supposed to do what he dictates she do, and move to SF, to be with someone who does not consult her on the most basic choices like jobs and houses?

Anonymous wrote:17 year old Kate was accepted to Berklee School of Music, so Kate is definitely talented. That's a tough admit. She doesn't have a degree in music, but she can play the piano and sing.

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Anonymous wrote:I have to correct one PP. Toby did NOT become a SAHD because Kate wanted to be a low paid TA. Toby lost his job and they had no money, so Kate applied for the TA job, so they would have SOME money coming in and so Jack would not have to drop out of the part-time pre-school he was in at the school.

That's when Toby became a SAHD. It wasn't something he did to help Kate or the family; he did it because it was the only option if Kate was going to work. Somebody had to take care of Haley and it didn't make sense to hire a sitter given how little money Kate was making.

And Kate didn't initially apply for the job because she thought she'd enjoy it; she applied for the job because it was the only job she could get which would only be for the same hours Jack was in school.

Then Kate ended up liking the job and didn't want to quit.

Right. Toby didn't become a SAHD for Kate. He was unemployed! He spent the whole time looking for a job! He did not stay at home by choice.

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Anonymous wrote:The fact that Toby was unemployed is why it’s ridiculous for Kate to expect him to give up an amazing job that he loves, his coworkers love him and he gets paid a lot. Toby really struggled with feeling worthless because he was unemployed.

All of this, with the exception of the pay, is exactly what he expects her to give up to move to support his career.

She likewise always struggled with feeling worthless because of being completely unfulfilled professionally.

Anonymous wrote:The fact that Toby was unemployed is why it’s ridiculous for Kate to expect him to give up an amazing job that he loves, his coworkers love him and he gets paid a lot. Toby really struggled with feeling worthless because he was unemployed.