Anonymous wrote:If what that 6 year old “ earned” was accomplished by outperforming the 5 year old on tasks then no, I argue that they didn’t earn anything. It was an unfair competition.

My not redshirted kid grew to six feet by age 13. Are you going to tell him that his performance on the school basketball team is unfair too?

Where do you little weirdos draw the line?

Anonymous wrote:The American system claims to support 4 - 6 year olds in the same kindergarten class equally but obviously they are not, hence why this thread exists.

The Netherlands must be doing something we aren’t.

Well, they trust parents to know when their kids are ready for school, which our system and DCUMs crazed anti-redshirters don't.

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Anonymous wrote:If what that 6 year old “ earned” was accomplished by outperforming the 5 year old on tasks then no, I argue that they didn’t earn anything. It was an unfair competition.

So...anyone with a fall birthday is just SOL? One of my kids was born September 4th. Not redshirted, but turns 6 the first few days of K. There are kids in his class that are almost a whole year younger than him. So he is "competing" against 5 year olds. By virtue of when his parents had sex, I guess he'll just never earn anything. Sorry, junior.

ha! My kid has an August 8th birthday. He turned six a month before starting K and is always a good 12-13 months older than the youngest in the class. This is NOT because he was redshirted, it is because when he started K we lived in a state with an August 1st cutoff so legally he had to start K at age 6. We moved to Maryland (September 1st cutoff) the summer before he started 3rd. He's in middle school now- great student, great musician, decent athlete. Gonna have to go break the news to him that being proud of his accomplishments is so immature. Anything that he's "accomplished" isn't actually an accomplishment- just unfair competition. I will explain to him that while he may think he is working hard for his great grades, saxophone performance, and skills on the tennis court, but he cannot be happy about any of this because he can only be happy about the things he has earned not gotten. And because many of the kids he's "competed" against for grades, music honors, and tennis matches are up to 13 months younger than him, he's not earned anything. Any tips on how to have this conversation and kid my kid to realize he's excelling not because he's smart or working hard but because he's older would be appreciated - thanks!!

If he was British he has the best odds of getting into Oxford university, just due to his age relative to the competition. SOL is the opposite of his position. The Summer borns are SOL.

Anonymous wrote:If what that 6 year old “ earned” was accomplished by outperforming the 5 year old on tasks then no, I argue that they didn’t earn anything. It was an unfair competition.

So...anyone with a fall birthday is just SOL? One of my kids was born September 4th. Not redshirted, but turns 6 the first few days of K. There are kids in his class that are almost a whole year younger than him. So he is "competing" against 5 year olds. By virtue of when his parents had sex, I guess he'll just never earn anything. Sorry, junior.

If what that 6 year old “ earned” was accomplished by outperforming the 5 year old on tasks then no, I argue that they didn’t earn anything. It was an unfair competition.

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Anonymous wrote:Teachers look at kids and say, hey, that kid is mature and smart. They don't say, hey, that kid is 6 months older than my class average, they must just be average for their age.

This is the truth, and it's why people hold their kids back. If you don't like it, don't do it. But realize this is exactly what's happening from K-12.

I never said anything about impressing teachers. Teachers are human just like everyone else, and therefore, do not always judge objectively. If a young student is doing poorly, it's probably true that none of their teachers will say, "That kid is much younger than my class average. They're not lazy or dumb, just younger." But that kid should be able to gain self-closure in knowing that this is the simple truth after some soul-searching. If an old student is doing poorly, they'll have no such comforting thing to tell themselves. It's also true that teachers won't say "Hey that kid is 6 months older than my class average, they must just be average for their age", but that old student who's excelling is probably going to have a hard time feeling good about themselves knowing that they're excelling, not because they're smarter, but simply because they are older.

I think if that's how my child looked at their success or lack thereof, I'd be calling a therapist stat. That's not normal.

You're right. That wouldn't be normal. That would be very abnormal. But it would be abnormal in a good way. Part of maturity is realizing that what you think of yourself is more much important than what others think of you. For instance, I don't envy movie stars the way I used to, because I know that I've worked harder and am way more knowledgeable than many of them. For me, knowing that is enough to make me happy, even though I'll get anywhere near the popularity they have.

So “maturity” is redshirted kids discounting their own successes as solely attributable to being slightly older than other kids in the class? And younger kids attributing their failures solely to being slightly younger than other kids in the class?

No. Maturity means basing your happiness on what you've earned rather than what you've gotten.

ah, yes. you are right. because if you started school a week after turning 6 rather than a week after turning 5, it's not possible for you to have earned ANYTHING. no hard work necessary, everything is just handed to you. duh.

The American system claims to support 4 - 6 year olds in the same kindergarten class equally but obviously they are not, hence why this thread exists.

The Netherlands must be doing something we aren’t.

Anonymous wrote:Just have rolling school entry with a hard maximum age cut off in the entrance class. Let the Spring and Summer borns also have the opportunity to be the eldest in the classroom without having to jump through hoops.

Interesting anecdote: the one country where the ADHD studies about relative age weren't replicated was in the Netherlands. The one large study there did not find younger kids more likely to be diagnosed with ADHD. The authors of that study speculated that could be because in the Netherlands, parents are offered greater flexibility as to when their kids start and a greater age range is supported in classrooms.

Just have rolling school entry with a hard maximum age cut off in the entrance class. Let the Spring and Summer borns also have the opportunity to be the eldest in the classroom without having to jump through hoops.

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Anonymous wrote:Teachers look at kids and say, hey, that kid is mature and smart. They don't say, hey, that kid is 6 months older than my class average, they must just be average for their age.

This is the truth, and it's why people hold their kids back. If you don't like it, don't do it. But realize this is exactly what's happening from K-12.

I never said anything about impressing teachers. Teachers are human just like everyone else, and therefore, do not always judge objectively. If a young student is doing poorly, it's probably true that none of their teachers will say, "That kid is much younger than my class average. They're not lazy or dumb, just younger." But that kid should be able to gain self-closure in knowing that this is the simple truth after some soul-searching. If an old student is doing poorly, they'll have no such comforting thing to tell themselves. It's also true that teachers won't say "Hey that kid is 6 months older than my class average, they must just be average for their age", but that old student who's excelling is probably going to have a hard time feeling good about themselves knowing that they're excelling, not because they're smarter, but simply because they are older.

I think if that's how my child looked at their success or lack thereof, I'd be calling a therapist stat. That's not normal.

You're right. That wouldn't be normal. That would be very abnormal. But it would be abnormal in a good way. Part of maturity is realizing that what you think of yourself is more much important than what others think of you. For instance, I don't envy movie stars the way I used to, because I know that I've worked harder and am way more knowledgeable than many of them. For me, knowing that is enough to make me happy, even though I'll get anywhere near the popularity they have.

So “maturity” is redshirted kids discounting their own successes as solely attributable to being slightly older than other kids in the class? And younger kids attributing their failures solely to being slightly younger than other kids in the class?

No. Maturity means basing your happiness on what you've earned rather than what you've gotten.

And, as has been patiently explained to you more than once, success is multifactorial. Redshirted kids who are successful should be proud, because many things got them there besides what you see as an age advantage (and what others would see as a lack of age disadvantage).

And they are. This lines up with actual life, where literally no people who were redshirted as children say to themselves “I am successful but not proud of it because I was 13 months older than the youngest other kid in my kindergarten class.”

Anonymous wrote:Then why redshirt kids ? Summer born children can demonstrate maturity by blooming where they are planted as the youngest in the class.

Why can't those 4 year olds get their shit together and buck up?

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Anonymous wrote:We are in DC and my kid was born August 30. Most of his class has now turned 17 and he is only 2 months into being 16. I absolutely regret not keeping him back so that he'd be within a few months of his classmates. Instead, he's almost an entire year younger.

I have two kids with August birthdays. Not holding back was not much of a problem until middle school. Since then, being the youngest has presented challenges. I would probably hold back if I could do it over again. I also agree with the others who said that teachers don't make an effort to distinguish between kids who were held back or are the oldest in the grade and the youngest. Too often, the less mature ones are treated as lacking and it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Why not just tell your kids that they're struggles are due to them being younger, not dumber? Make them see that they have absolutely nothing to feel ashamed of.

I don't encourage them to play the victim.

Well, you're certainly treating them like victims on this forum, as you're blaming yourself for their struggles.

Then why redshirt kids ? Summer born children can demonstrate maturity by blooming where they are planted as the youngest in the class.

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Anonymous wrote:Teachers look at kids and say, hey, that kid is mature and smart. They don't say, hey, that kid is 6 months older than my class average, they must just be average for their age.

This is the truth, and it's why people hold their kids back. If you don't like it, don't do it. But realize this is exactly what's happening from K-12.

I never said anything about impressing teachers. Teachers are human just like everyone else, and therefore, do not always judge objectively. If a young student is doing poorly, it's probably true that none of their teachers will say, "That kid is much younger than my class average. They're not lazy or dumb, just younger." But that kid should be able to gain self-closure in knowing that this is the simple truth after some soul-searching. If an old student is doing poorly, they'll have no such comforting thing to tell themselves. It's also true that teachers won't say "Hey that kid is 6 months older than my class average, they must just be average for their age", but that old student who's excelling is probably going to have a hard time feeling good about themselves knowing that they're excelling, not because they're smarter, but simply because they are older.

I think if that's how my child looked at their success or lack thereof, I'd be calling a therapist stat. That's not normal.

You're right. That wouldn't be normal. That would be very abnormal. But it would be abnormal in a good way. Part of maturity is realizing that what you think of yourself is more much important than what others think of you. For instance, I don't envy movie stars the way I used to, because I know that I've worked harder and am way more knowledgeable than many of them. For me, knowing that is enough to make me happy, even though I'll get anywhere near the popularity they have.

So “maturity” is redshirted kids discounting their own successes as solely attributable to being slightly older than other kids in the class? And younger kids attributing their failures solely to being slightly younger than other kids in the class?

No. Maturity means basing your happiness on what you've earned rather than what you've gotten.