Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Of course she's right. There is no room, no thought, no plan in the system whereby poor or OOB children are to be kept out of a school. None. Zero. Zip. Nada. And when maybe half of them overall can read on grade level? Nor should there be.

You need to get it into your heads that if you want to build a moat around your snowflake, then send him to private school. DCPS absolutely will not keep those bad OOB kids away from him. DCPSs job is educate everybody, and considering how badly they do that job, don't think for a second that DCPS is going to keep kids out of Hardy just for you.

I fully appreciate that DCPS will not for a second alter its plans to meet the educational needs of my DCs, PP. That's why I've given up on DCPS for MS and switched to a HRCS.

It seems like you are defining your DCs needs solely as "don't be near poor people." There is no reason DCPS can't educate the children of poor people and your snowflake together - in fact, if you see previous post, re: the experience of IB families at Hardy, they do that just fine. But no, DCPS won't and shouldn't isolate your child from whatever you think the ill-effects are of being around students that are not as wealthy or as white as your child.

Also, not to be tedious, but Hardy is in fact altering plans to meet the needs of IB families - they are adding extra differentiation, honors classes, and the SEM program. So again, the fact that you are ignoring these effforts makes it appear as if the only issue you care about is the "problem" of your snowflake rubbing elbows with poor brown kids.

As I posted earlier, my "snowflake" is at an HRCS for MS and thus rubs elbows with almost as many "poor brown kids" as the IB kids at Hardy. Is there an HRCS MS in DC without a large number of "poor brown kids," PP?

We did not choose HRCS because of demographics. We chose it for a number of other reasons, including our assessment that HRCS does not suffer from curriculum dilution or diminished expectations:

A combination of peer, parent and teacher influences works a fourth kind of pedagogical
deprivation at high-poverty schools, namely a dilution of the curriculum. Because it is the
curriculum that drives learning and should promote academic achievement, this is
potentially the most damaging aspect of the causal link between high-poverty schools and
inadequate outcomes. An inadequate curriculum undercuts even the bright, motivated
student who happens to attend a high-poverty school. All Together Now at 75 n.120
(citing Rebecca Barr and Robert Dreeben, How Schools Work (University of Chicago
Press 1983) and Christopher Jencks, A Reappraisal of the Most Controversial Education
Document of Our Time in New York Times Magazine (November, 1972)).

Over and above eroding teacher quality, diminished teacher expectations has its own
deleterious effect on the curriculum of high-poverty schools. Concentrated Poverty and
Educational Achievement at 6. From the outset, the bar is set lower for these students.
Educator Deborah Meier has found that "whether schools are public or private, the social
class of the students has been and continues to be the single most significant factor in
determining how a school works and the intellectual values it promotes." All Together
Now at 72. Schoolwork graded as a "C" in a low-poverty school would earn an "A" in a
high-poverty school. Students in low-poverty schools are more likely to be rewarded for
academic excellence; students in high-poverty schools for attendance. Id. at 72-73, 75
n.115. See generally Prospects at 84-91; Michael S. Knapp and Patrick M. Shields,
Reconceiving Academic Instruction for the Children of Poverty (Eisenhower Nat'l
Clearinghouse 1990) ("Reconceiving Academic Instruction").

Does Hardy suffer from these problems? I suspect that is does ("Hardy Middle School shines its brightest, however, with a music and art program that is unparalleled at the middle school level throughout the Washington, DC metro region."), but appreciate that other parents feel differently.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's interesting that a few years ago Hardy almost became the Coretta Scott King middle school of the arts.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/20/AR2008082001476.html

Back then Hardy was on a fast-track to becoming a city-wide magnet arts middle school -- an Ellington feeder. Things might have actually worked out better if that effort had been successful and the pretext of a neighborhood school had been dropped. Then DCPS would have had to do something for the in-boundary families, and everyone would have been happy.

Math is hard for you.

There aren't enough IB families to justify building a brand new MS (or resurrecting a zombie one) in Ward 2. Either go to Hardy, go to Latin/Basis/DCI, go private, or move. There will be no "Special Snowflake MS" WOTP. Get used to it.

Anonymous wrote:So - we got an IB charter school parent complaining hardy is not good enough for the IB families, vs someone arguing it should not be for IB families.

In a thread asking HOW MANY IB are actually going - and the data we have so far - the best till count day - indicates a big increase in IB families (by either definition) - Hardy is well on its way to overcoming the prisoners' dilemma.

Do arguments always lag data? Is it that people get stuck in modes of arguing?

Who will be more unhappy when Hardy has flipped - the folks defending the idea that Hardy is "meant" to be a mostly OOB school, or the charter families defending their decision?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's interesting that a few years ago Hardy almost became the Coretta Scott King middle school of the arts.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/20/AR2008082001476.html

Back then Hardy was on a fast-track to becoming a city-wide magnet arts middle school -- an Ellington feeder. Things might have actually worked out better if that effort had been successful and the pretext of a neighborhood school had been dropped. Then DCPS would have had to do something for the in-boundary families, and everyone would have been happy.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Of course she's right. There is no room, no thought, no plan in the system whereby poor or OOB children are to be kept out of a school. None. Zero. Zip. Nada. And when maybe half of them overall can read on grade level? Nor should there be.

You need to get it into your heads that if you want to build a moat around your snowflake, then send him to private school. DCPS absolutely will not keep those bad OOB kids away from him. DCPSs job is educate everybody, and considering how badly they do that job, don't think for a second that DCPS is going to keep kids out of Hardy just for you.

I fully appreciate that DCPS will not for a second alter its plans to meet the educational needs of my DCs, PP. That's why I've given up on DCPS for MS and switched to a HRCS.

It seems like you are defining your DCs needs solely as "don't be near poor people." There is no reason DCPS can't educate the children of poor people and your snowflake together - in fact, if you see previous post, re: the experience of IB families at Hardy, they do that just fine. But no, DCPS won't and shouldn't isolate your child from whatever you think the ill-effects are of being around students that are not as wealthy or as white as your child.

Also, not to be tedious, but Hardy is in fact altering plans to meet the needs of IB families - they are adding extra differentiation, honors classes, and the SEM program. So again, the fact that you are ignoring these effforts makes it appear as if the only issue you care about is the "problem" of your snowflake rubbing elbows with poor brown kids.

A combination of peer, parent and teacher influences works a fourth kind of pedagogical
deprivation at high-poverty schools, namely a dilution of the curriculum. Because it is the
curriculum that drives learning and should promote academic achievement, this is
potentially the most damaging aspect of the causal link between high-poverty schools and
inadequate outcomes. An inadequate curriculum undercuts even the bright, motivated
student who happens to attend a high-poverty school. All Together Now at 75 n.120
(citing Rebecca Barr and Robert Dreeben, How Schools Work (University of Chicago
Press 1983) and Christopher Jencks, A Reappraisal of the Most Controversial Education
Document of Our Time in New York Times Magazine (November, 1972)).

Over and above eroding teacher quality, diminished teacher expectations has its own
deleterious effect on the curriculum of high-poverty schools. Concentrated Poverty and
Educational Achievement at 6. From the outset, the bar is set lower for these students.
Educator Deborah Meier has found that "whether schools are public or private, the social
class of the students has been and continues to be the single most significant factor in
determining how a school works and the intellectual values it promotes." All Together
Now at 72. Schoolwork graded as a "C" in a low-poverty school would earn an "A" in a
high-poverty school. Students in low-poverty schools are more likely to be rewarded for
academic excellence; students in high-poverty schools for attendance. Id. at 72-73, 75
n.115. See generally Prospects at 84-91; Michael S. Knapp and Patrick M. Shields,
Reconceiving Academic Instruction for the Children of Poverty (Eisenhower Nat'l
Clearinghouse 1990) ("Reconceiving Academic Instruction").

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's interesting that a few years ago Hardy almost became the Coretta Scott King middle school of the arts.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/20/AR2008082001476.html

Back then Hardy was on a fast-track to becoming a city-wide magnet arts middle school -- an Ellington feeder. Things might have actually worked out better if that effort had been successful and the pretext of a neighborhood school had been dropped. Then DCPS would have had to do something for the in-boundary families, and everyone would have been happy.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's interesting that a few years ago Hardy almost became the Coretta Scott King middle school of the arts.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/20/AR2008082001476.html

Back then Hardy was on a fast-track to becoming a city-wide magnet arts middle school -- an Ellington feeder. Things might have actually worked out better if that effort had been successful and the pretext of a neighborhood school had been dropped. Then DCPS would have had to do something for the in-boundary families, and everyone would have been happy.

Anonymous wrote:It's interesting that a few years ago Hardy almost became the Coretta Scott King middle school of the arts.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/20/AR2008082001476.html

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
You're right, PP. The issue is school quality. A 55% FARMs middle school is likely to have a detrimental impact on a middle class kid, and family supports will not be enough to compensate:


http://www.prrac.org/pdf/annotated_bibliography_on_school_poverty_concentration.pdf

But if more IB students attend, either through more of the existing IB students choosing to attend, as already seems to be the case, or through more new market rate housing with at least 2BRs, that would in itself reduce the % of FARMs.

Note, the old profile gives Hardy a FARMS % if 55. If the above mentioned claims on IB in the 6th grade are correct, that percentage should already be lower for the 6th grade.

So, we're back to the grassroots effort: Let's improve Hardy by all agreeing to enroll our IB kids so that we drive the FARMs rate down (mostly by driving out the FARMs kids).

However, since the transformation can't happen overnight, the plan is really more like: Let's sacrifice the educational experiences of IB middle schoolers for some as of yet undetermined number of years so that future IB middle schoolers will have access to a high quality neighborhood middle school.

Oh, my God, the drama. As if going to a just-okay middle school for three years is going to doom your child forever. You think your kid won't be able to keep up with the Deal kids once they all wind up at Wilson together? Have a little faith in yourself and your children. You can overcome this dreadful setback!

The issue apparently is that many IB parents want more than a "just okay middle school" experience for their children.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
The PP is right. It also takes a lot of resources to bring such a large number of kids up to grade level. Of course, this means for higher SES families looking at middle schools WOTP that Hardy is unlikely within any reasonable time horizon to offer their kids the same educational quality as Deal.

So after 47 pages, I propose a new slogan: "Hardy. It's not as good as Deal, but should be good enough for you."

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Of course she's right. There is no room, no thought, no plan in the system whereby poor or OOB children are to be kept out of a school. None. Zero. Zip. Nada. And when maybe half of them overall can read on grade level? Nor should there be.

You need to get it into your heads that if you want to build a moat around your snowflake, then send him to private school. DCPS absolutely will not keep those bad OOB kids away from him. DCPSs job is educate everybody, and considering how badly they do that job, don't think for a second that DCPS is going to keep kids out of Hardy just for you.

I fully appreciate that DCPS will not for a second alter its plans to meet the educational needs of my DCs, PP. That's why I've given up on DCPS for MS and switched to a HRCS.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
The PP is right. It also takes a lot of resources to bring such a large number of kids up to grade level. Of course, this means for higher SES families looking at middle schools WOTP that Hardy is unlikely within any reasonable time horizon to offer their kids the same educational quality as Deal.

So after 47 pages, I propose a new slogan: "Hardy. It's not as good as Deal, but should be good enough for you."

Anonymous wrote:
The PP is right. It also takes a lot of resources to bring such a large number of kids up to grade level. Of course, this means for higher SES families looking at middle schools WOTP that Hardy is unlikely within any reasonable time horizon to offer their kids the same educational quality as Deal.