Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This kid seems insufferable, but I kind of feel badly for him.

He has great scores and he should be very proud of himself, but if folks in his life were telling him that he was a shoo-in for an Ivy League college, then he was getting bad advice.

Very very few people can be assured of spots in the Ivy League. Kids of major (MAJOR) donors are one, kids who have won significant national prizes (ISEF Top Prize Winners) are another. But a kid with good test scores and grades? That's a crapshoot.

Similarly, whoever told him to put this out there into the world was doing him a disservice because the coverage has focused on how at least one of the schools he was rejected from doesn't use race-based admissions at all.

+1. Those who advise teenagers should NOT lead them to believe that they'll have even a decent chance at an elite school. It's really not fair to the teenagers, no matter how impressive the teenager is.

This. I almost wish everyone had to take probability and statistics. The colleges put out acceptance rates. The few that don't have even lower acceptance rates. You can do all the things and not get into a school with a sub-20% acceptance rate.

+1

Exactly. But then, we would have to prep and teach to the test for probability and statistics (not really learning anything, just getting those A's by the tutor).

Anonymous wrote:https://news.yahoo.com/failed-affirmative-action-campaign-shook-152236410.html

Very interesting article. Thank you.

I think the Dem leadership are out of touch with the Hispanic and Asian voters. Do they not realize that the Hispanic vote is a lot bigger than Asian and Black votes combined? Dem leaders take note: “If they keep making it a cause, they will just alienate Hispanic and Asian voters.”

Taking the top x% of every HS is the way to go. That's how CA got around Prop 209 to increase URM, and it works.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's the solution.

Set a filter with X GPA and Y SAT scores. Throw all people who make it into the pool and use a random computer algorithm to pick people.

Totally the fairest way to choose. All of the extraneous stuff is nonsense. Schools should decide where they want to set the bar for quality, then have a completely race agnostic system for selection. Drawing straws is fair after the cutoff is met.

Then you just deal with an overcrowded CS/ENG dept and nobody in the English dept? So much more does (and should ) go into selecting a freshman class

It really doesn't take a slide ruler or advanced calculus to figure this out.

Fill out application with random assigned number that kids your name and identity. Select top 3 choices for major. Input GPA/SAT. Done.

No fluff. No legacies. No identities. Randomly pick people who meet a cutoff for GPA/SAT. You can include parameters for random selection based on major choice and limits for capacity.

Students get accept or reject letter stating which majors they're admitted to. This is a minor problem.

That is ridiculous.

They really need to just apply to European schools (or many asian countries as well) who you take a test, score high enough you get in

Maybe, that’s why foreign schools are now ranked higher than US universities in technical fields like engineering. They’re admitting the best and brightest abroad and not based on flimsy ID baskets.

True. Look at US News best global engineering school rankings. Even scarier is the fact that many of China’s engineering schools in the world’s T25 or T50 don’t even belong to their Ministry of Education—they belong to their Ministry of Defense. Including world’s #5, Harbin, which is ranked just below world’s #4, MIT. It’s a military technical university.

https://www.usnews.com/education/best-global-universities/engineering

Yup.

Americans are oblivious to how fast they're falling behind in technical fields.

We get it, Americans are slow and stupid, and only you and your kind belong in American colleges.

If this is how you feel, why do you want to go to our colleges so much?

Do you wake up and go to your work every morning because you think your job is the best and want to go to your work so much?

You are off on another illogical tangent that has no relevance to your original point. Again.

yea you are confused

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This kid seems insufferable, but I kind of feel badly for him.

He has great scores and he should be very proud of himself, but if folks in his life were telling him that he was a shoo-in for an Ivy League college, then he was getting bad advice.

Very very few people can be assured of spots in the Ivy League. Kids of major (MAJOR) donors are one, kids who have won significant national prizes (ISEF Top Prize Winners) are another. But a kid with good test scores and grades? That's a crapshoot.

Similarly, whoever told him to put this out there into the world was doing him a disservice because the coverage has focused on how at least one of the schools he was rejected from doesn't use race-based admissions at all.

+1. Those who advise teenagers should NOT lead them to believe that they'll have even a decent chance at an elite school. It's really not fair to the teenagers, no matter how impressive the teenager is.

The teens don't care where they attend college - only the parents do. That is why the prepping starts so early - early life is about what college you attend, nothing else. If you need a tutor for each class, you are in the wrong classes.

I have to disagree with you on this…go to any competitive HS (Sidwell, TJ, Whitman, etc) and the teens are super status conscious. Could be parental pressure which starts it, but seems organic too.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:China and India alone have almost 3 billion citizens.

Chinese immigrants number about 2 million a year to the US. Immigrants from India have about the same numbers.

These immigrants come here for education and better quality of life. They are a tiny percentage of Asians but they are the most likely to be hardest working with some money and family connections.

I have a friend who came here from China as a child. We have children in the same grade and are close. The rest of her extended family will not allow their children to be friends with American children. They see Americans as lazy and a distraction.

It’s a different culture and with that amount of people the Asian population could easily fill MIT, Harvard, etc a thousand times over. What are they supposed to do, especially if most of them go back to their country of origin?

I don’t understand the question…what are they supposed to do about what?

Why should we be sympathetic to the families that won’t assimilate?

What are you talking about
They are the ones who assimilate to the American way and American dream - hardworking and competition

No, the American way (which is what has made this country historically such a great place)…is that you are proud of your heritage but you are now an American and you want to embrace the country in its entirety (foibles and all). If America evolved with just a bunch of ethnic cliques keeping to themselves, the country would have a much lower GDP and overall quality of life.

Help us really understand why you are immigrating here. Someone posted a list of top engineering schools and 13/20 were in Asia, so no need to go to college in the US (in fact why would you?). If you apparently hate the people and the system…help us understand.

I’m late but I always chime in when I see posts like this. My AA cousin ( not first Gen) got rejected this year from two Ivy League schools and multiple top 20 schools. He is going to Georgia Tech and we are so proud of him. I don’t know his GPA but he got a near perfect score on his SATs.
Having said that, my DC is now a rising sophomore at an Ivy. Graduated with a 4.5+ GPA with competitive SATs which were submitted (not perfect but in the middle range). My DC does have a spike in STEM and other impressive academic talents. My kid’s essay, ECs (some since middle school) and recommendations were top notch.

The majority of URM on campus are Hispanic or from African countries. There are plenty of Asians on campus. Every single one of my kid’s friends (every nationality) I met on campus are brilliant. Anyone admitted with lower scores are probably highly recruited talented athletes who are also “smart”.

I work with Ivy grads in a regular job environment (all with masters and above). They are super smart but not necessarily brilliant. A high SAT test score does not make one brilliant. A high SAT test score does not mean you can hang with the big dogs. Anyone can study for a test. Perhaps the admissions criteria have changed based on past outcomes and research revealing this fact?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This kid seems insufferable, but I kind of feel badly for him.

He has great scores and he should be very proud of himself, but if folks in his life were telling him that he was a shoo-in for an Ivy League college, then he was getting bad advice.

Very very few people can be assured of spots in the Ivy League. Kids of major (MAJOR) donors are one, kids who have won significant national prizes (ISEF Top Prize Winners) are another. But a kid with good test scores and grades? That's a crapshoot.

Similarly, whoever told him to put this out there into the world was doing him a disservice because the coverage has focused on how at least one of the schools he was rejected from doesn't use race-based admissions at all.

+1. Those who advise teenagers should NOT lead them to believe that they'll have even a decent chance at an elite school. It's really not fair to the teenagers, no matter how impressive the teenager is.

This. I almost wish everyone had to take probability and statistics. The colleges put out acceptance rates. The few that don't have even lower acceptance rates. You can do all the things and not get into a school with a sub-20% acceptance rate.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This kid seems insufferable, but I kind of feel badly for him.

He has great scores and he should be very proud of himself, but if folks in his life were telling him that he was a shoo-in for an Ivy League college, then he was getting bad advice.

Very very few people can be assured of spots in the Ivy League. Kids of major (MAJOR) donors are one, kids who have won significant national prizes (ISEF Top Prize Winners) are another. But a kid with good test scores and grades? That's a crapshoot.

Similarly, whoever told him to put this out there into the world was doing him a disservice because the coverage has focused on how at least one of the schools he was rejected from doesn't use race-based admissions at all.

+1. Those who advise teenagers should NOT lead them to believe that they'll have even a decent chance at an elite school. It's really not fair to the teenagers, no matter how impressive the teenager is.

The teens don't care where they attend college - only the parents do. That is why the prepping starts so early - early life is about what college you attend, nothing else. If you need a tutor for each class, you are in the wrong classes.

Anonymous wrote:This kid seems insufferable, but I kind of feel badly for him.

He has great scores and he should be very proud of himself, but if folks in his life were telling him that he was a shoo-in for an Ivy League college, then he was getting bad advice.

Very very few people can be assured of spots in the Ivy League. Kids of major (MAJOR) donors are one, kids who have won significant national prizes (ISEF Top Prize Winners) are another. But a kid with good test scores and grades? That's a crapshoot.

Similarly, whoever told him to put this out there into the world was doing him a disservice because the coverage has focused on how at least one of the schools he was rejected from doesn't use race-based admissions at all.

+1. Those who advise teenagers should NOT lead them to believe that they'll have even a decent chance at an elite school. It's really not fair to the teenagers, no matter how impressive the teenager is.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's the solution.

Set a filter with X GPA and Y SAT scores. Throw all people who make it into the pool and use a random computer algorithm to pick people.

Totally the fairest way to choose. All of the extraneous stuff is nonsense. Schools should decide where they want to set the bar for quality, then have a completely race agnostic system for selection. Drawing straws is fair after the cutoff is met.

Then you just deal with an overcrowded CS/ENG dept and nobody in the English dept? So much more does (and should ) go into selecting a freshman class

It really doesn't take a slide ruler or advanced calculus to figure this out.

Fill out application with random assigned number that kids your name and identity. Select top 3 choices for major. Input GPA/SAT. Done.

No fluff. No legacies. No identities. Randomly pick people who meet a cutoff for GPA/SAT. You can include parameters for random selection based on major choice and limits for capacity.

Students get accept or reject letter stating which majors they're admitted to. This is a minor problem.

That is ridiculous.

They really need to just apply to European schools (or many asian countries as well) who you take a test, score high enough you get in

Maybe, that’s why foreign schools are now ranked higher than US universities in technical fields like engineering. They’re admitting the best and brightest abroad and not based on flimsy ID baskets.

True. Look at US News best global engineering school rankings. Even scarier is the fact that many of China’s engineering schools in the world’s T25 or T50 don’t even belong to their Ministry of Education—they belong to their Ministry of Defense. Including world’s #5, Harbin, which is ranked just below world’s #4, MIT. It’s a military technical university.

https://www.usnews.com/education/best-global-universities/engineering

Yup.

Americans are oblivious to how fast they're falling behind in technical fields.

We get it, Americans are slow and stupid, and only you and your kind belong in American colleges.

If this is how you feel, why do you want to go to our colleges so much?

Do you wake up and go to your work every morning because you think your job is the best and want to go to your work so much?

You are off on another illogical tangent that has no relevance to your original point. Again.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's the solution.

Set a filter with X GPA and Y SAT scores. Throw all people who make it into the pool and use a random computer algorithm to pick people.

Totally the fairest way to choose. All of the extraneous stuff is nonsense. Schools should decide where they want to set the bar for quality, then have a completely race agnostic system for selection. Drawing straws is fair after the cutoff is met.

Then you just deal with an overcrowded CS/ENG dept and nobody in the English dept? So much more does (and should ) go into selecting a freshman class

It really doesn't take a slide ruler or advanced calculus to figure this out.

Fill out application with random assigned number that kids your name and identity. Select top 3 choices for major. Input GPA/SAT. Done.

No fluff. No legacies. No identities. Randomly pick people who meet a cutoff for GPA/SAT. You can include parameters for random selection based on major choice and limits for capacity.

Students get accept or reject letter stating which majors they're admitted to. This is a minor problem.

That is ridiculous.

They really need to just apply to European schools (or many asian countries as well) who you take a test, score high enough you get in

Maybe, that’s why foreign schools are now ranked higher than US universities in technical fields like engineering. They’re admitting the best and brightest abroad and not based on flimsy ID baskets.

True. Look at US News best global engineering school rankings. Even scarier is the fact that many of China’s engineering schools in the world’s T25 or T50 don’t even belong to their Ministry of Education—they belong to their Ministry of Defense. Including world’s #5, Harbin, which is ranked just below world’s #4, MIT. It’s a military technical university.

https://www.usnews.com/education/best-global-universities/engineering

Yup.

Americans are oblivious to how fast they're falling behind in technical fields.

We get it, Americans are slow and stupid, and only you and your kind belong in American colleges.

If this is how you feel, why do you want to go to our colleges so much?

Do you wake up and go to your work every morning because you think your job is the best and want to go to your work so much?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's the solution.

Set a filter with X GPA and Y SAT scores. Throw all people who make it into the pool and use a random computer algorithm to pick people.

Totally the fairest way to choose. All of the extraneous stuff is nonsense. Schools should decide where they want to set the bar for quality, then have a completely race agnostic system for selection. Drawing straws is fair after the cutoff is met.

Then you just deal with an overcrowded CS/ENG dept and nobody in the English dept? So much more does (and should ) go into selecting a freshman class

It really doesn't take a slide ruler or advanced calculus to figure this out.

Fill out application with random assigned number that kids your name and identity. Select top 3 choices for major. Input GPA/SAT. Done.

No fluff. No legacies. No identities. Randomly pick people who meet a cutoff for GPA/SAT. You can include parameters for random selection based on major choice and limits for capacity.

Students get accept or reject letter stating which majors they're admitted to. This is a minor problem.

That is ridiculous.

They really need to just apply to European schools (or many asian countries as well) who you take a test, score high enough you get in

Maybe, that’s why foreign schools are now ranked higher than US universities in technical fields like engineering. They’re admitting the best and brightest abroad and not based on flimsy ID baskets.

True. Look at US News best global engineering school rankings. Even scarier is the fact that many of China’s engineering schools in the world’s T25 or T50 don’t even belong to their Ministry of Education—they belong to their Ministry of Defense. Including world’s #5, Harbin, which is ranked just below world’s #4, MIT. It’s a military technical university.

https://www.usnews.com/education/best-global-universities/engineering

Yup.

Americans are oblivious to how fast they're falling behind in technical fields.

We get it, Americans are slow and stupid, and only you and your kind belong in American colleges.

If this is how you feel, why do you want to go to our colleges so much?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's the solution.

Set a filter with X GPA and Y SAT scores. Throw all people who make it into the pool and use a random computer algorithm to pick people.

Totally the fairest way to choose. All of the extraneous stuff is nonsense. Schools should decide where they want to set the bar for quality, then have a completely race agnostic system for selection. Drawing straws is fair after the cutoff is met.

Then you just deal with an overcrowded CS/ENG dept and nobody in the English dept? So much more does (and should ) go into selecting a freshman class

It really doesn't take a slide ruler or advanced calculus to figure this out.

Fill out application with random assigned number that kids your name and identity. Select top 3 choices for major. Input GPA/SAT. Done.

No fluff. No legacies. No identities. Randomly pick people who meet a cutoff for GPA/SAT. You can include parameters for random selection based on major choice and limits for capacity.

Students get accept or reject letter stating which majors they're admitted to. This is a minor problem.

DP here. Here is the issue. I will spell it out for you. Certain cheating groups ruined the SAT for the majority, who were not cheating. You may want to deny it, or pretend it did not happen - but it did, and now admissions is changed forever. Nothing you say or do, including pointing at other groups, will change that.

Congratulations?

Lol. 'Certain cheating groups ruined the SAT'.

Just say it - you mean Asians. No need to hide behind your racist dog whistle that stereotypes Asians as cheaters. No way possibly that Asians could be that much higher performing than all other racial and ethnic groups - it must be because they cheated or are cheating. What a horrific stereotype.

Your racism and anti-asian hate is showing. Just wear it on your sleeve at this point.

You are not familiar with that particular cheating issue? Look it up! Why am I “racist” for knowing about it? It’s no secret!

There it is folks. Asians cheat.

Wow, what a shocking and vulgar display of racist stereotype. That's like saying black men commit crime, look at the stats!

You hate Asian people, we get it.

The only thing that was "shocking" and "vulgar" was how the cheating happened. Stop trying to stir the pot.

DP. Whites are genocidal. Look it up. There you are if you know the history.

Are we still talking about college entrance, who gets in and why? Then you answered your own question.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's the solution.

Set a filter with X GPA and Y SAT scores. Throw all people who make it into the pool and use a random computer algorithm to pick people.

Totally the fairest way to choose. All of the extraneous stuff is nonsense. Schools should decide where they want to set the bar for quality, then have a completely race agnostic system for selection. Drawing straws is fair after the cutoff is met.

Then you just deal with an overcrowded CS/ENG dept and nobody in the English dept? So much more does (and should ) go into selecting a freshman class

It really doesn't take a slide ruler or advanced calculus to figure this out.

Fill out application with random assigned number that kids your name and identity. Select top 3 choices for major. Input GPA/SAT. Done.

No fluff. No legacies. No identities. Randomly pick people who meet a cutoff for GPA/SAT. You can include parameters for random selection based on major choice and limits for capacity.

Students get accept or reject letter stating which majors they're admitted to. This is a minor problem.

That is ridiculous.

They really need to just apply to European schools (or many asian countries as well) who you take a test, score high enough you get in

Maybe, that’s why foreign schools are now ranked higher than US universities in technical fields like engineering. They’re admitting the best and brightest abroad and not based on flimsy ID baskets.

True. Look at US News best global engineering school rankings. Even scarier is the fact that many of China’s engineering schools in the world’s T25 or T50 don’t even belong to their Ministry of Education—they belong to their Ministry of Defense. Including world’s #5, Harbin, which is ranked just below world’s #4, MIT. It’s a military technical university.

https://www.usnews.com/education/best-global-universities/engineering

Yup.

Americans are oblivious to how fast they're falling behind in technical fields.

I wouldn’t say that we are falling behind fast, but China’s rise is a huge concern. I read a few things about their history of nuclear and missile programs. Not long ago (a few decades ago) the majority of that nation was poor uneducated peasants. But they did have a few brilliant students who studied in the US and (to a lesser extent) Europe. The founder of their missile and space program was an MIT Ph.D. and CalTech professor. The father of their atomic bomb was a Purdue Boilermaker, helped by some Michigan Wolverines. (Wonder if there was a Big Ten rivalry in their nuclear and missile research facilities.) A CalTech Ph.D. and cofounder of Cornell’s aeronautical engineering (along with William Sears) (now part of Mechanical and Aerospace Engineering Dept) also contributed greatly to their weapons programs. Allegedly he died in a plane crash in China—carrying hydrogen bomb design documents. Just want to say that we are in a life-or-death struggle for technological supremacy. The competition for technological supremacy is fiercer than ever in human history. Does AA/DEI help or hurt us in maintaining technological supremacy? Different people may have different opinions, but that’s a question we must answer.

Do we think certain groups of people will help us maintain technological superiority?

Yes because the URM from the poorest area of Chicago might just be the next greatest nuclear physicist. Even if they are not, if MIT thinks they are a good addition to the class of 2027, then I think they will go far in life.

Oh, was that not what you meant by "certain groups of people"?

+1

The ethnocentrism is strong.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:China and India alone have almost 3 billion citizens.

Chinese immigrants number about 2 million a year to the US. Immigrants from India have about the same numbers.

These immigrants come here for education and better quality of life. They are a tiny percentage of Asians but they are the most likely to be hardest working with some money and family connections.

I have a friend who came here from China as a child. We have children in the same grade and are close. The rest of her extended family will not allow their children to be friends with American children. They see Americans as lazy and a distraction.

It’s a different culture and with that amount of people the Asian population could easily fill MIT, Harvard, etc a thousand times over. What are they supposed to do, especially if most of them go back to their country of origin?

I don’t understand the question…what are they supposed to do about what?

Why should we be sympathetic to the families that won’t assimilate?

What are you talking about
They are the ones who assimilate to the American way and American dream - hardworking and competition

"The American Dream" has been dead for decades. You were sold a false bill of goods.