Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parent of a high stats kid from another private school...our college counselors made it very, very clear that all bets are off for ANY college with acceptance rates <20%. Those schools cannot be counted on for any kid. They insisted that kids have at least 3 schools with acceptance rates over 50% and at least one had to have an acceptance rate over 60%. Other than that, kids were strongly encouraged to find at least 5-6 schools in the 20-50 percent range that they could really be happy at.

This seemed to work well when the advice was followed...the ones that ended up unhappy are those who disregarded the advice and just put in a couple of safeties and shotgun 20 plus applications for schools with <15% acceptance rates. These kids and their parents are now blaming the counselor for not doing more.

I'm not saying that is what is going on at Sidwell but it is certainly the case that people are upset that the process/outcomes were different that what they were 4-5 years ago and they didn't want to hear it.

+1000

And as I have posted several times, the Sidwell CCO was upfront about this. The only people who are upset are the ones who ignored it.

That is just what you felt. Sidwell COO functions as PM to make sure everyone will not miss the deadlines and have at least one college to go. The school is afraid to have another lawsuit

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m lost as to what the CCO has to do with your child not getting into college.
I assume Sidwell parents are highly educated and capable of researching college admissions.

Did you feel out the common app with your child and honestly believe some magic was happening that you weren’t involved in that guaranteed their admission to every college they applied for?
Because, I’m thinking if you didn’t have the power to wil your child into Brown, the CCO sure didn’t either.

The role of a good CCO is to provide real advice and counseling, based on their knowledge of the student and also their knowledge and perspective as an inside expert at the school who has insight into all aspects of Sidwell's college placement process--an insight that parents, by definition, cannot and do not have on their own. Sidwell's CCO does not provide any of that meaningful advice and counseling.

Of course they're not going to will anyone's kid into a particular school. But there is a huge chasm between that absurd strawman you have created, and a CCO that is just pushing paper and making sure that deadlines are met (which is about all that Sidwell's office actually does).

They do this. It's just that many parents apparently don't want to or aren't willing to listen to what they are trying to tell you. and then fast forward a few months an you get a thread like this

No, they did not and do not do this. At least, our counselor did not. And it has already been discussed that there is a huge variance among the four counselors as to what they do. Also, I don’t know what you are talking about when you say “fast forward a few months.” Lots of parents have been consistently pointing out for months that the CCO is terrible and does not provide any advice or counseling. And before you accuse me of some sort of sour grapes complaining, let me tell you that my kid got in to their #1 choice. That was no thanks to the CCO though.

Last point: if the CCO is so great, why is the conventional wisdom among upper school parents that you need to hire a private counselor? I can’t even count how many 9th-11th grade parents there are who have told me that they have been advised this by parents of older kids or recent graduates.

people hire counselors for a variety of reasons, the primary being to have someone as a buffer between you and the junior/senior - not everyone has one, and I would posit that most don't. If a kid is enough of a self starter to manage the process and timelines themselves, then they don't need a parent or paid consultant to do it for them. In fact, the kids who put themselves in a position to be considered for a top 20 school are the same ones who can manage the process themselves with the school counselor.

That is not the reason parents are being advised by other parents to hire a private counselor. They are being advised to hire a private counselor because the CCO does not actually counsel kids and because they are viewed as doing a poor job. You’re just making stuff up now and speculating in some sort of weird way that seems designed to defend the school at all costs.

Private college counselors were not helpful this year. Just ask those kids who didn’t get into great colleges with pretty good GPAs. Actually they probably fared worse because of the reliance of them.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parent of a high stats kid from another private school...our college counselors made it very, very clear that all bets are off for ANY college with acceptance rates <20%. Those schools cannot be counted on for any kid. They insisted that kids have at least 3 schools with acceptance rates over 50% and at least one had to have an acceptance rate over 60%. Other than that, kids were strongly encouraged to find at least 5-6 schools in the 20-50 percent range that they could really be happy at.

This seemed to work well when the advice was followed...the ones that ended up unhappy are those who disregarded the advice and just put in a couple of safeties and shotgun 20 plus applications for schools with <15% acceptance rates. These kids and their parents are now blaming the counselor for not doing more.

I'm not saying that is what is going on at Sidwell but it is certainly the case that people are upset that the process/outcomes were different that what they were 4-5 years ago and they didn't want to hear it.

+1000

And as I have posted several times, the Sidwell CCO was upfront about this. The only people who are upset are the ones who ignored it.

Anonymous wrote:Parent of a high stats kid from another private school...our college counselors made it very, very clear that all bets are off for ANY college with acceptance rates <20%. Those schools cannot be counted on for any kid. They insisted that kids have at least 3 schools with acceptance rates over 50% and at least one had to have an acceptance rate over 60%. Other than that, kids were strongly encouraged to find at least 5-6 schools in the 20-50 percent range that they could really be happy at.

This seemed to work well when the advice was followed...the ones that ended up unhappy are those who disregarded the advice and just put in a couple of safeties and shotgun 20 plus applications for schools with <15% acceptance rates. These kids and their parents are now blaming the counselor for not doing more.

I'm not saying that is what is going on at Sidwell but it is certainly the case that people are upset that the process/outcomes were different that what they were 4-5 years ago and they didn't want to hear it.

Anonymous wrote:Parent of a high stats kid from another private school...our college counselors made it very, very clear that all bets are off for ANY college with acceptance rates <20%. Those schools cannot be counted on for any kid. They insisted that kids have at least 3 schools with acceptance rates over 50% and at least one had to have an acceptance rate over 60%. Other than that, kids were strongly encouraged to find at least 5-6 schools in the 20-50 percent range that they could really be happy at.

This seemed to work well when the advice was followed...the ones that ended up unhappy are those who disregarded the advice and just put in a couple of safeties and shotgun 20 plus applications for schools with <15% acceptance rates. These kids and their parents are now blaming the counselor for not doing more.

I'm not saying that is what is going on at Sidwell but it is certainly the case that people are upset that the process/outcomes were different that what they were 4-5 years ago and they didn't want to hear it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sidwell is a scam. The kids getting into top 15 schools from Sidwell are mostly legacy, URM and recruited athletes. They could have done this from literally any other school in the area. Sidwell admissions admits the parents and the situation to assure good outcomes down the road. Period.

counterpoint - not everyone, and I would venture *most* do not send their kids to any of these schools for the college outcomes...if that is the goal, the living in North dakota or alabama is a much better opportunity if the goal is HYP

Sidwell parent here. I disagree. Of course, most parents don't expect a specific college outcome. However, pretty much everyone I know expects or at least hopes that graduating from a top school with very rigorous standards should help students in the admissions process. Clearly, this is proving to be increasingly unfounded as college admissions have shifted further away from purely academic merit to include a range of other criteria in their decision making. The problem is made worse by "within-school" comparisons across students that college ADs are engaging in.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m lost as to what the CCO has to do with your child not getting into college.
I assume Sidwell parents are highly educated and capable of researching college admissions.

Did you feel out the common app with your child and honestly believe some magic was happening that you weren’t involved in that guaranteed their admission to every college they applied for?
Because, I’m thinking if you didn’t have the power to wil your child into Brown, the CCO sure didn’t either.

The role of a good CCO is to provide real advice and counseling, based on their knowledge of the student and also their knowledge and perspective as an inside expert at the school who has insight into all aspects of Sidwell's college placement process--an insight that parents, by definition, cannot and do not have on their own. Sidwell's CCO does not provide any of that meaningful advice and counseling.

Of course they're not going to will anyone's kid into a particular school. But there is a huge chasm between that absurd strawman you have created, and a CCO that is just pushing paper and making sure that deadlines are met (which is about all that Sidwell's office actually does).

They do this. It's just that many parents apparently don't want to or aren't willing to listen to what they are trying to tell you. and then fast forward a few months an you get a thread like this

No, they did not and do not do this. At least, our counselor did not. And it has already been discussed that there is a huge variance among the four counselors as to what they do. Also, I don’t know what you are talking about when you say “fast forward a few months.” Lots of parents have been consistently pointing out for months that the CCO is terrible and does not provide any advice or counseling. And before you accuse me of some sort of sour grapes complaining, let me tell you that my kid got in to their #1 choice. That was no thanks to the CCO though.

Last point: if the CCO is so great, why is the conventional wisdom among upper school parents that you need to hire a private counselor? I can’t even count how many 9th-11th grade parents there are who have told me that they have been advised this by parents of older kids or recent graduates.

people hire counselors for a variety of reasons, the primary being to have someone as a buffer between you and the junior/senior - not everyone has one, and I would posit that most don't. If a kid is enough of a self starter to manage the process and timelines themselves, then they don't need a parent or paid consultant to do it for them. In fact, the kids who put themselves in a position to be considered for a top 20 school are the same ones who can manage the process themselves with the school counselor.

That is not the reason parents are being advised by other parents to hire a private counselor. They are being advised to hire a private counselor because the CCO does not actually counsel kids and because they are viewed as doing a poor job. You’re just making stuff up now and speculating in some sort of weird way that seems designed to defend the school at all costs.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m lost as to what the CCO has to do with your child not getting into college.
I assume Sidwell parents are highly educated and capable of researching college admissions.

Did you feel out the common app with your child and honestly believe some magic was happening that you weren’t involved in that guaranteed their admission to every college they applied for?
Because, I’m thinking if you didn’t have the power to wil your child into Brown, the CCO sure didn’t either.

The role of a good CCO is to provide real advice and counseling, based on their knowledge of the student and also their knowledge and perspective as an inside expert at the school who has insight into all aspects of Sidwell's college placement process--an insight that parents, by definition, cannot and do not have on their own. Sidwell's CCO does not provide any of that meaningful advice and counseling.

Of course they're not going to will anyone's kid into a particular school. But there is a huge chasm between that absurd strawman you have created, and a CCO that is just pushing paper and making sure that deadlines are met (which is about all that Sidwell's office actually does).

They do this. It's just that many parents apparently don't want to or aren't willing to listen to what they are trying to tell you. and then fast forward a few months an you get a thread like this

No, they did not and do not do this. At least, our counselor did not. And it has already been discussed that there is a huge variance among the four counselors as to what they do. Also, I don’t know what you are talking about when you say “fast forward a few months.” Lots of parents have been consistently pointing out for months that the CCO is terrible and does not provide any advice or counseling. And before you accuse me of some sort of sour grapes complaining, let me tell you that my kid got in to their #1 choice. That was no thanks to the CCO though.

Last point: if the CCO is so great, why is the conventional wisdom among upper school parents that you need to hire a private counselor? I can’t even count how many 9th-11th grade parents there are who have told me that they have been advised this by parents of older kids or recent graduates.

people hire counselors for a variety of reasons, the primary being to have someone as a buffer between you and the junior/senior - not everyone has one, and I would posit that most don't. If a kid is enough of a self starter to manage the process and timelines themselves, then they don't need a parent or paid consultant to do it for them. In fact, the kids who put themselves in a position to be considered for a top 20 school are the same ones who can manage the process themselves with the school counselor.

That is not the reason parents are being advised by other parents to hire a private counselor. They are being advised to hire a private counselor because the CCO does not actually counsel kids and because they are viewed as doing a poor job. You’re just making stuff up now and speculating in some sort of weird way that seems designed to defend the school at all costs.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m lost as to what the CCO has to do with your child not getting into college.
I assume Sidwell parents are highly educated and capable of researching college admissions.

Did you feel out the common app with your child and honestly believe some magic was happening that you weren’t involved in that guaranteed their admission to every college they applied for?
Because, I’m thinking if you didn’t have the power to wil your child into Brown, the CCO sure didn’t either.

The role of a good CCO is to provide real advice and counseling, based on their knowledge of the student and also their knowledge and perspective as an inside expert at the school who has insight into all aspects of Sidwell's college placement process--an insight that parents, by definition, cannot and do not have on their own. Sidwell's CCO does not provide any of that meaningful advice and counseling.

Of course they're not going to will anyone's kid into a particular school. But there is a huge chasm between that absurd strawman you have created, and a CCO that is just pushing paper and making sure that deadlines are met (which is about all that Sidwell's office actually does).

They do this. It's just that many parents apparently don't want to or aren't willing to listen to what they are trying to tell you. and then fast forward a few months an you get a thread like this

No, they did not and do not do this. At least, our counselor did not. And it has already been discussed that there is a huge variance among the four counselors as to what they do. Also, I don’t know what you are talking about when you say “fast forward a few months.” Lots of parents have been consistently pointing out for months that the CCO is terrible and does not provide any advice or counseling. And before you accuse me of some sort of sour grapes complaining, let me tell you that my kid got in to their #1 choice. That was no thanks to the CCO though.

Last point: if the CCO is so great, why is the conventional wisdom among upper school parents that you need to hire a private counselor? I can’t even count how many 9th-11th grade parents there are who have told me that they have been advised this by parents of older kids or recent graduates.

people hire counselors for a variety of reasons, the primary being to have someone as a buffer between you and the junior/senior - not everyone has one, and I would posit that most don't. If a kid is enough of a self starter to manage the process and timelines themselves, then they don't need a parent or paid consultant to do it for them. In fact, the kids who put themselves in a position to be considered for a top 20 school are the same ones who can manage the process themselves with the school counselor.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sidwell is a scam. The kids getting into top 15 schools from Sidwell are mostly legacy, URM and recruited athletes. They could have done this from literally any other school in the area. Sidwell admissions admits the parents and the situation to assure good outcomes down the road. Period.

counterpoint - not everyone, and I would venture *most* do not send their kids to any of these schools for the college outcomes...if that is the goal, the living in North dakota or alabama is a much better opportunity if the goal is HYP

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m lost as to what the CCO has to do with your child not getting into college.
I assume Sidwell parents are highly educated and capable of researching college admissions.

Did you feel out the common app with your child and honestly believe some magic was happening that you weren’t involved in that guaranteed their admission to every college they applied for?
Because, I’m thinking if you didn’t have the power to wil your child into Brown, the CCO sure didn’t either.

The role of a good CCO is to provide real advice and counseling, based on their knowledge of the student and also their knowledge and perspective as an inside expert at the school who has insight into all aspects of Sidwell's college placement process--an insight that parents, by definition, cannot and do not have on their own. Sidwell's CCO does not provide any of that meaningful advice and counseling.

Of course they're not going to will anyone's kid into a particular school. But there is a huge chasm between that absurd strawman you have created, and a CCO that is just pushing paper and making sure that deadlines are met (which is about all that Sidwell's office actually does).

They do this. It's just that many parents apparently don't want to or aren't willing to listen to what they are trying to tell you. and then fast forward a few months an you get a thread like this

No, they did not and do not do this. At least, our counselor did not. And it has already been discussed that there is a huge variance among the four counselors as to what they do. Also, I don’t know what you are talking about when you say “fast forward a few months.” Lots of parents have been consistently pointing out for months that the CCO is terrible and does not provide any advice or counseling. And before you accuse me of some sort of sour grapes complaining, let me tell you that my kid got in to their #1 choice. That was no thanks to the CCO though.

Last point: if the CCO is so great, why is the conventional wisdom among upper school parents that you need to hire a private counselor? I can’t even count how many 9th-11th grade parents there are who have told me that they have been advised this by parents of older kids or recent graduates.

Anonymous wrote:Estimate of what percent of families hire an outside counselor? And what do they do that the school counselor doesn’t

Also, should the school counselor guide your options and or help promote the school and relationships with college admissions offices?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:College admissions have been unpredictable and sometimes shocking. But Sidwell students have been well prepared to succeed wherever they go. College isn't the end goal. It's just another step. They will all be fine.

This may all be true, but it’s also a distraction in the context of this discussion. This is the kind of nonsense that Mamadou and the school trots out, consistent with its arrogant and dismissive tone towards parents. It is a very convenient way to deflect any scrutiny of the school.

“Shocking” results are not OK just because the kids are well prepared. Saying that they will all be fine in this context suggests that college placement doesn’t matter.

Why is it Sidwell's fault that COVID prompted colleges to go test optional causing a steep decline in acceptance rates everywhere? All they can do is advise families of the landscape, which they did. The kids who were realistic about their options and chose a variety of schools that would make them happy, did fine. I have yet to hear about a senior who had no options.

IMO they did not advise families of the landscape or actually counsel families. “They will all be fine” is their crutch for not doing any meaningful, real advising or advocacy.

They absolutely did. Lauren was very clear from the beginning of junior year how COVID was changing things, how the then current class (2021) had to adjust and how it was very important not to focus on the reach+ schools but rather the targets and safeties. Sorry you didn't get the message. It was pretty clear at the time.

No need for the snarky response. And why are you making assumptions about my kid, who actually got in ED? That was no thanks to the school or its crappy counseling; everything I said above is 100% accurate, and I am pissed for my kid’s friends and classmates.

And I don’t know what you are talking about when you say “Lauren was very clear from the beginning of junior year...” Are you referring to the grade-wide zoom meetings? I attended all of those, and I disagree that any meaningful substantive advice or counseling was shared in those silly PowerPoint-heavy meetings going over checklists. Regardless, the real counseling and advising is supposed to occur in the individual meetings. And in those meetings, based on our experience and discussions with other parents, the counselors absolutely did not provide any real advice or counseling.

Then you weren't paying attention to what she was saying. She was very clear.

Congrats to your kid.

I know you keep saying this. I disagree with you. Neither of us can definitively establish that our recollection is the correct one.

As I said previously though, the much more important question is what all four counselors discussed in their individual meetings and communications with kids and families. That is the principal context in which counseling and advice is provided. And I will say, based on our own interactions with our kid's counselor, that there was absolutely no substantive advice provided whatsoever, much less any substantive advice provided regarding the "changing landscape." Believe me, I asked, and I got nothing in return. My discussions with other parents tells me that our family was not alone in this respect.

Except one of us got the message loud and clear and the other one can't remember, but was clearly bored by the power point.

Those meetings were not mandatory, and they were not recorded for parents who weren't able to watch them contemporaneously. Along with my having a different recollection than yours, do you realize how ridiculous it sounds for you to suggest that the only way in which this crucial piece of advice was conveyed from the CCO to parents was through a meeting on Zoom that they might not have been able to watch? And that somehow that constitutes the CCO doing its job well?

I got it several times - through the zoom, from out kids counselor and from the emails. They really were no hiding it.

Nope. Not true. Who was your kid’s counselor?