Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem was that Toby didn't consult Kate about anything. He didn't tell her he had been offered the job in LA before turning it down. When she finds out about it, he doesn't want to tell her what the salary was. Maybe it was for a lot less, but maybe it was for less, but not so much less than when you take cost of living in LA vs SF into account the choice was very clear cut.

He takes her to see a house and says she has to decide to buy it the day after tomorrow. It's the third time he's seen the house. He's already applied for a loan. He hasn't discussed any of this with her. Maybe Kate might want to check out other houses and neighborhoods to see what she likes. Has he figured out where the closest good school for the blind is, what transportation would be involved, good daycare and schools for Haley, parks and playgrounds, etc.? Even long distance, you'd think he'd at least he'd have discussed the possibility of moving to SF with Kate and she would have spent some time researching this sort of thing.

He calls a Lyft without asking Kate if she wants to walk.

He can't come meet her at the airport because he's on a call. He takes a call when they go for a walk. He has to take a call in the morning. But he gets mad at Kate for calling the kids when they go for a walk!

It's not just the healthy lifestyle--it's ditching Kate at the party to discuss a pick for a fantasy football team;telling her waht she should talk about with his co-workers at the cocktail party, making reservations at very pricey, trendy restaurants--again without consulting Kate; buying expensive champagne, etc.

Yes! All of this!

Toby is a walking red flag with his behavior. He has not put her first since he took this job. He couldn't even have a nice weekend with her - only wanted to do it on his terms. He also seems "manic" almost. Perhaps the green egg sends him in a spiral down. Ugh, will be tough to watch.

+1

Toby, for a while now, has been living as if part of his mind sees himself as single. No need to consult on anything. His defensive "You want NUMBERS?!" at Kate, rather than just telling her the salary he'd been offered, was something I wish Kate had called him out on more strongly -- it's so transparent that he hadn't gotten his story straight on what he'd tell her about this job offer. If it was really a poor offer as he said, why not just tell her salary? The list above where PP notes the many ways he was either ignoring her (calls, calls, calls; fantasy football; dictating conversational topics etc.) plus how he was making choices for both of them, was all way beyond the pale. Someone said here that she wants to be together but only on her terms and i don't see that -- I see Toby acting like he's basically single, not her partner. Giving her the "if we want to be a family that has to happen in SF" ultimatum? Wow. I'd leave him too.

He’s probably making at least two to three times more than Kate as a TA. This is pretty simple to me. If he goes to SF and it’s a good fit, then Kate needs to move to SF. And yes, it almost always comes down to money.

Not when you have a special needs child and dying mother.

Um, 2 to 3 times as much? She works PT in a low skilled job, probably makes 20K. He makes 10-20x what she does. Even if she does get Janice's job, with no degree etc. she'll be at the very low end of the pay scale so maybe 50-60k?

And she's told her mom she can't care for the kids solo anymore so who takes care of them when Kate moves to FT as a geographic single parent? Makes zero sense, so unrealistic. Even with decent child support, seems like the numbers don't work.

Anonymous wrote:I have to correct one PP. Toby did NOT become a SAHD because Kate wanted to be a low paid TA. Toby lost his job and they had no money, so Kate applied for the TA job, so they would have SOME money coming in and so Jack would not have to drop out of the part-time pre-school he was in at the school.

That's when Toby became a SAHD. It wasn't something he did to help Kate or the family; he did it because it was the only option if Kate was going to work. Somebody had to take care of Haley and it didn't make sense to hire a sitter given how little money Kate was making.

And Kate didn't initially apply for the job because she thought she'd enjoy it; she applied for the job because it was the only job she could get which would only be for the same hours Jack was in school.

Then Kate ended up liking the job and didn't want to quit.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let's be real here. How could Toby afford that house?? I realize tech people make a lot of money, but come on. He's been at that job a few months. No way they are throwing that kind of cash at him. San Fran is the most expensive city in the US, and they have no support system there at all. I don't blame Kate for not wanting to move there. Yes, I'm sure Toby would make more money there, but it would be completely eaten up by the cost of living.

I also love that they make it seem like the house would be theirs if they put in an offer. No other bidders, I'm sure!

This is a really good hidden point. I would expect *if* he can somehow qualify for that house just on his salary, which is relatively new so somewhat suspect that he was pre approved without 2 years seasoning, but I digress with my financial background. They’d be incredibly house-poor. Then on top of that, it would force Kate to be a SAHM, which would be a huge step back for her (child care is incredibly expensive in SF it wouldn’t make financial sense for her to work a low-paying teaching job). And absolutely no family support means you have to pay for every minute of child care. With a preschooler with special needs.

I suspect the house surprise is a “big Toby” gesture, and she’s finally balking at those, with good reason. She has to be all in to make this move work. She’s clearly not. And she doesn’t need Toby for emotional support like she used to.

That said, I don’t think she’s at the point she’s going to break up her family. This is the groundwork. I guess the green egg will be the catalyst for that?

You guys are acting like SF is so much more expensive than LA. Have you checked out LA real estate prices lately? Not that far off anymore.

The house in LA is tiny compared to the one is SF. That's what was shocking to me. The LA house is not in the 4 mil range.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let's be real here. How could Toby afford that house?? I realize tech people make a lot of money, but come on. He's been at that job a few months. No way they are throwing that kind of cash at him. San Fran is the most expensive city in the US, and they have no support system there at all. I don't blame Kate for not wanting to move there. Yes, I'm sure Toby would make more money there, but it would be completely eaten up by the cost of living.

I also love that they make it seem like the house would be theirs if they put in an offer. No other bidders, I'm sure!

This is a really good hidden point. I would expect *if* he can somehow qualify for that house just on his salary, which is relatively new so somewhat suspect that he was pre approved without 2 years seasoning, but I digress with my financial background. They’d be incredibly house-poor. Then on top of that, it would force Kate to be a SAHM, which would be a huge step back for her (child care is incredibly expensive in SF it wouldn’t make financial sense for her to work a low-paying teaching job). And absolutely no family support means you have to pay for every minute of child care. With a preschooler with special needs.

I suspect the house surprise is a “big Toby” gesture, and she’s finally balking at those, with good reason. She has to be all in to make this move work. She’s clearly not. And she doesn’t need Toby for emotional support like she used to.

That said, I don’t think she’s at the point she’s going to break up her family. This is the groundwork. I guess the green egg will be the catalyst for that?

You guys are acting like SF is so much more expensive than LA. Have you checked out LA real estate prices lately? Not that far off anymore.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let's be real here. How could Toby afford that house?? I realize tech people make a lot of money, but come on. He's been at that job a few months. No way they are throwing that kind of cash at him. San Fran is the most expensive city in the US, and they have no support system there at all. I don't blame Kate for not wanting to move there. Yes, I'm sure Toby would make more money there, but it would be completely eaten up by the cost of living.

I also love that they make it seem like the house would be theirs if they put in an offer. No other bidders, I'm sure!

This is a really good hidden point. I would expect *if* he can somehow qualify for that house just on his salary, which is relatively new so somewhat suspect that he was pre approved without 2 years seasoning, but I digress with my financial background. They’d be incredibly house-poor. Then on top of that, it would force Kate to be a SAHM, which would be a huge step back for her (child care is incredibly expensive in SF it wouldn’t make financial sense for her to work a low-paying teaching job). And absolutely no family support means you have to pay for every minute of child care. With a preschooler with special needs.

I suspect the house surprise is a “big Toby” gesture, and she’s finally balking at those, with good reason. She has to be all in to make this move work. She’s clearly not. And she doesn’t need Toby for emotional support like she used to.

That said, I don’t think she’s at the point she’s going to break up her family. This is the groundwork. I guess the green egg will be the catalyst for that?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let's be real here. How could Toby afford that house?? I realize tech people make a lot of money, but come on. He's been at that job a few months. No way they are throwing that kind of cash at him. San Fran is the most expensive city in the US, and they have no support system there at all. I don't blame Kate for not wanting to move there. Yes, I'm sure Toby would make more money there, but it would be completely eaten up by the cost of living.

I also love that they make it seem like the house would be theirs if they put in an offer. No other bidders, I'm sure!

This is a really good hidden point. I would expect *if* he can somehow qualify for that house just on his salary, which is relatively new so somewhat suspect that he was pre approved without 2 years seasoning, but I digress with my financial background. They’d be incredibly house-poor. Then on top of that, it would force Kate to be a SAHM, which would be a huge step back for her (child care is incredibly expensive in SF it wouldn’t make financial sense for her to work a low-paying teaching job). And absolutely no family support means you have to pay for every minute of child care. With a preschooler with special needs.

I suspect the house surprise is a “big Toby” gesture, and she’s finally balking at those, with good reason. She has to be all in to make this move work. She’s clearly not. And she doesn’t need Toby for emotional support like she used to.

That said, I don’t think she’s at the point she’s going to break up her family. This is the groundwork. I guess the green egg will be the catalyst for that?

Anonymous wrote:Let's be real here. How could Toby afford that house?? I realize tech people make a lot of money, but come on. He's been at that job a few months. No way they are throwing that kind of cash at him. San Fran is the most expensive city in the US, and they have no support system there at all. I don't blame Kate for not wanting to move there. Yes, I'm sure Toby would make more money there, but it would be completely eaten up by the cost of living.

I also love that they make it seem like the house would be theirs if they put in an offer. No other bidders, I'm sure!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem was that Toby didn't consult Kate about anything. He didn't tell her he had been offered the job in LA before turning it down. When she finds out about it, he doesn't want to tell her what the salary was. Maybe it was for a lot less, but maybe it was for less, but not so much less than when you take cost of living in LA vs SF into account the choice was very clear cut.

He takes her to see a house and says she has to decide to buy it the day after tomorrow. It's the third time he's seen the house. He's already applied for a loan. He hasn't discussed any of this with her. Maybe Kate might want to check out other houses and neighborhoods to see what she likes. Has he figured out where the closest good school for the blind is, what transportation would be involved, good daycare and schools for Haley, parks and playgrounds, etc.? Even long distance, you'd think he'd at least he'd have discussed the possibility of moving to SF with Kate and she would have spent some time researching this sort of thing.

He calls a Lyft without asking Kate if she wants to walk.

He can't come meet her at the airport because he's on a call. He takes a call when they go for a walk. He has to take a call in the morning. But he gets mad at Kate for calling the kids when they go for a walk!

It's not just the healthy lifestyle--it's ditching Kate at the party to discuss a pick for a fantasy football team;telling her waht she should talk about with his co-workers at the cocktail party, making reservations at very pricey, trendy restaurants--again without consulting Kate; buying expensive champagne, etc.

Yes! All of this!

Toby is a walking red flag with his behavior. He has not put her first since he took this job. He couldn't even have a nice weekend with her - only wanted to do it on his terms. He also seems "manic" almost. Perhaps the green egg sends him in a spiral down. Ugh, will be tough to watch.

+1

Toby, for a while now, has been living as if part of his mind sees himself as single. No need to consult on anything. His defensive "You want NUMBERS?!" at Kate, rather than just telling her the salary he'd been offered, was something I wish Kate had called him out on more strongly -- it's so transparent that he hadn't gotten his story straight on what he'd tell her about this job offer. If it was really a poor offer as he said, why not just tell her salary? The list above where PP notes the many ways he was either ignoring her (calls, calls, calls; fantasy football; dictating conversational topics etc.) plus how he was making choices for both of them, was all way beyond the pale. Someone said here that she wants to be together but only on her terms and i don't see that -- I see Toby acting like he's basically single, not her partner. Giving her the "if we want to be a family that has to happen in SF" ultimatum? Wow. I'd leave him too.

He’s probably making at least two to three times more than Kate as a TA. This is pretty simple to me. If he goes to SF and it’s a good fit, then Kate needs to move to SF. And yes, it almost always comes down to money.

Not when you have a special needs child and dying mother.

Um, 2 to 3 times as much? She works PT in a low skilled job, probably makes 20K. He makes 10-20x what she does. Even if she does get Janice's job, with no degree etc. she'll be at the very low end of the pay scale so maybe 50-60k?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Toby gets butt hurt about Kevin being there for Kate, but sure doesn’t mind his financial support!

I'm not sure that's true. Remember the episodes where Kevin would offer to pay for things and Toby refused, but Kevin kept insisting? I think it might have been after Toby lost his job. I'm not sure that Toby was ever ok taking Kevin's money.

Anonymous wrote:Toby gets butt hurt about Kevin being there for Kate, but sure doesn’t mind his financial support!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That house would be about $6 million. There is no way the difference in salary between SF and LA would make up for that. I work in tech so it kills me to see how they position his “difficulty” finding work and how SF is the only place he can work. SF pays more because it’s freaking expensive to live there.

I hated how Toby handled things but agree Kate isn’t any better.

Like another PP, I'm surprised at how many people are siding with Toby. One other factor in the fight about the LA job and differences in salaries - Toby wouldn't have to pay to fly back every weekend, nor the cost of the apartment (maybe that is comped?). There are lots of expenses to living in two cities. What I really disliked about Toby this episode is not telling her about the other offer, and also getting pre-approval for the mortgage. The pre-approval application with her credit too is way out of line without her knowledge. And his ultimatum that the only way their family will work is for them to be in SF. That's the marriage-ender right there.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem was that Toby didn't consult Kate about anything. He didn't tell her he had been offered the job in LA before turning it down. When she finds out about it, he doesn't want to tell her what the salary was. Maybe it was for a lot less, but maybe it was for less, but not so much less than when you take cost of living in LA vs SF into account the choice was very clear cut.

He takes her to see a house and says she has to decide to buy it the day after tomorrow. It's the third time he's seen the house. He's already applied for a loan. He hasn't discussed any of this with her. Maybe Kate might want to check out other houses and neighborhoods to see what she likes. Has he figured out where the closest good school for the blind is, what transportation would be involved, good daycare and schools for Haley, parks and playgrounds, etc.? Even long distance, you'd think he'd at least he'd have discussed the possibility of moving to SF with Kate and she would have spent some time researching this sort of thing.

He calls a Lyft without asking Kate if she wants to walk.

He can't come meet her at the airport because he's on a call. He takes a call when they go for a walk. He has to take a call in the morning. But he gets mad at Kate for calling the kids when they go for a walk!

It's not just the healthy lifestyle--it's ditching Kate at the party to discuss a pick for a fantasy football team;telling her waht she should talk about with his co-workers at the cocktail party, making reservations at very pricey, trendy restaurants--again without consulting Kate; buying expensive champagne, etc.

Yes! All of this!

Toby is a walking red flag with his behavior. He has not put her first since he took this job. He couldn't even have a nice weekend with her - only wanted to do it on his terms. He also seems "manic" almost. Perhaps the green egg sends him in a spiral down. Ugh, will be tough to watch.

+1

Toby, for a while now, has been living as if part of his mind sees himself as single. No need to consult on anything. His defensive "You want NUMBERS?!" at Kate, rather than just telling her the salary he'd been offered, was something I wish Kate had called him out on more strongly -- it's so transparent that he hadn't gotten his story straight on what he'd tell her about this job offer. If it was really a poor offer as he said, why not just tell her salary? The list above where PP notes the many ways he was either ignoring her (calls, calls, calls; fantasy football; dictating conversational topics etc.) plus how he was making choices for both of them, was all way beyond the pale. Someone said here that she wants to be together but only on her terms and i don't see that -- I see Toby acting like he's basically single, not her partner. Giving her the "if we want to be a family that has to happen in SF" ultimatum? Wow. I'd leave him too.

He’s probably making at least two to three times more than Kate as a TA. This is pretty simple to me. If he goes to SF and it’s a good fit, then Kate needs to move to SF. And yes, it almost always comes down to money.

Anonymous wrote:That house would be about $6 million. There is no way the difference in salary between SF and LA would make up for that. I work in tech so it kills me to see how they position his “difficulty” finding work and how SF is the only place he can work. SF pays more because it’s freaking expensive to live there.

I hated how Toby handled things but agree Kate isn’t any better.