Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone know whether helicopters crossing are supposed to wait for an affirmative okay to cross from the ATC, or whether they can cross unless told NOT to cross by ATC?

This does seem like a crazy intersection to me.

Military missions have different rules. They also are on different frequencies (although monitoring tower.) This is their normal route. It intersects the circle to land pattern for the short runway. It’s a dumb as crap situation and has been a disaster waiting to happen for years. Has nothing to do with how many flights there are at DCA or politics. The scopes are out and show this was a developing situation that ATC didn’t deconflict. And the helo pilot didn’t maintain visual separation. This was completely avoidable and while claiming trump or musk might feel good this one isn’t their fault.

It has everything to do with more flights. The helicopter pilot was confused because there were three planes up there with him. He thought he was visualizing the one ATC asked about. But oops! There was another plane up there he couldn’t see! The industry knew this was just a matter of time, but they wanted to keep adding new flights to the busiest runway in the nation.

https://www.protectregionalairports.com/2024/01/26/dca-is-still-the-busiest-runway-in-the-nation/

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There’s zero reason for so many helicopters in DC, let alone “training flights.” They fly too low over residential areas and seem to just be doing it as a lark. They should train elsewhere.

Not so sure about the so called training.
I thought they delivered VIPs to CIA, no?

Yes, they dropped the VIP(s?) off at Langley and then a less experienced pilot took the controls for "training hours" for the flight back. They are very much trying to hide that the reason the helicopter was there at all was because some faux-VIP wanted to skip traffic.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone know whether helicopters crossing are supposed to wait for an affirmative okay to cross from the ATC, or whether they can cross unless told NOT to cross by ATC?

This does seem like a crazy intersection to me.

There’s a blackhawk pilot on ABC News - the helicopter was likely not flying low enough given planes descending onto the runway.

Wtf does this mean?? Planes don’t land in the air. They are dropping altitude to zero. Is that low enough for you??

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There’s zero reason for so many helicopters in DC, let alone “training flights.” They fly too low over residential areas and seem to just be doing it as a lark. They should train elsewhere.

Not so sure about the so called training.
I thought they delivered VIPs to CIA, no?

Yes, they dropped the VIP(s?) off at Langley and then a less experienced pilot took the controls for "training hours" for the flight back. They are very much trying to hide that the reason the helicopter was there at all was because some faux-VIP wanted to skip traffic.

Or they were summoned?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone know whether helicopters crossing are supposed to wait for an affirmative okay to cross from the ATC, or whether they can cross unless told NOT to cross by ATC?

This does seem like a crazy intersection to me.

Military missions have different rules. They also are on different frequencies (although monitoring tower.) This is their normal route. It intersects the circle to land pattern for the short runway. It’s a dumb as crap situation and has been a disaster waiting to happen for years. Has nothing to do with how many flights there are at DCA or politics. The scopes are out and show this was a developing situation that ATC didn’t deconflict. And the helo pilot didn’t maintain visual separation. This was completely avoidable and while claiming trump or musk might feel good this one isn’t their fault.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone know whether helicopters crossing are supposed to wait for an affirmative okay to cross from the ATC, or whether they can cross unless told NOT to cross by ATC?

This does seem like a crazy intersection to me.

There’s a blackhawk pilot on ABC News - the helicopter was likely not flying low enough given planes descending onto the runway.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone know whether helicopters crossing are supposed to wait for an affirmative okay to cross from the ATC, or whether they can cross unless told NOT to cross by ATC?

This does seem like a crazy intersection to me.

Military missions have different rules. They also are on different frequencies (although monitoring tower.) This is their normal route. It intersects the circle to land pattern for the short runway. It’s a dumb as crap situation and has been a disaster waiting to happen for years. Has nothing to do with how many flights there are at DCA or politics. The scopes are out and show this was a developing situation that ATC didn’t deconflict. And the helo pilot didn’t maintain visual separation. This was completely avoidable and while claiming trump or musk might feel good this one isn’t their fault.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Biden and their administration signed off on the added flights a year ago. Again the blame game doesn't work. This is a tragedy some changes will need to happen like making sure helos and airplanes are on the same frequency , this could have happened with a police or even news chopper.

The number of flights wasn't the issue here. Helicopter routes shouldn't be so close to the runway approach. Especially at night.

Why was the helicopter so close to the plane

It was focused on other planes and thought it was Ok. Poor comms. Dark at night.

You are guessing. But that seems implausible given the flight path and the fact that they had to be looking straight at the plane before impact. It seems impossible for them to not see the brightly lit plane they flying toward.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone know whether helicopters crossing are supposed to wait for an affirmative okay to cross from the ATC, or whether they can cross unless told NOT to cross by ATC?

This does seem like a crazy intersection to me.

There’s a blackhawk pilot on ABC News - the helicopter was likely not flying low enough given planes descending onto the runway.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There’s zero reason for so many helicopters in DC, let alone “training flights.” They fly too low over residential areas and seem to just be doing it as a lark. They should train elsewhere.

Not so sure about the so called training.
I thought they delivered VIPs to CIA, no?

Yes, they dropped the VIP(s?) off at Langley and then a less experienced pilot took the controls for "training hours" for the flight back. They are very much trying to hide that the reason the helicopter was there at all was because some faux-VIP wanted to skip traffic.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Biden and their administration signed off on the added flights a year ago. Again the blame game doesn't work. This is a tragedy some changes will need to happen like making sure helos and airplanes are on the same frequency , this could have happened with a police or even news chopper.

The number of flights wasn't the issue here. Helicopter routes shouldn't be so close to the runway approach. Especially at night.

Why was the helicopter so close to the plane

It was focused on other planes and thought it was Ok. Poor comms. Dark at night.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s chaos in every single branch of the government right now. But sure blame the airport.

This is human error, not the government’s fault. But how can you not put some blame on the airport? It’s literally their job to manage planes landing. Saying to the helicopter “do you see the plane” when there are multiple close by planes, including one close enough to crash into them, seems like mismanagement of air traffic to me

The flight patterns necessarily take planes and helicopters close to each other. This only works if you can trust the helicopter flying under visual rules to see approaching aircraft. Maybe that's an unfair and unrealistic expectation, but expecting ATC to handle this any other way than they did is wholly impractical.

When multiple planes are in the sky close together, how is it that ATC communicates and distinguishes them to each other? If ATC called the helicopter to ask if they had visual of “the plane,” and the helicopter said yes, but it was a different plane, then ATC made in error in not effectively communicating and distinguishing the threat.

True.

So it's called a visual approach. Only the US frequents this - pilots from Europe think we're nuts because sometimes it's impossible to catch the visual. You really need ATC or tech to make it a higher % of accuracy to make it truly safe. It is usually not a prob esp during day flights but at night even on a clear one, you may just miss seeing something you should. It's not anyone's fault per se but the system they use. I don't even think it's about too many flights contributing to this tragedy it's just the process is not safe.

Anonymous wrote:There’s zero reason for so many helicopters in DC, let alone “training flights.” They fly too low over residential areas and seem to just be doing it as a lark. They should train elsewhere.