Anonymous
Post 10/14/2024 13:10     Subject: Are you offended when someone says they “didnt want someone else to raise my kids”?
Anonymous wrote:So to every sahm on this thread (the new term for you is tradwives), congrats. You are fulfilling the vision of postliberal Christian nationalists like JD Vance and setting back women’s advancement. If you don’t care about equality with men then own that, and model to young girls that a woman belongs at home. But for those of who care about women’s rights, this anti-working woman trend discourse is troubling.


Actually, I don’t care about alleged equality with men *on men’s terms* which is what you are arguing.

Actual equality is valuing all of the different roles in society and valuing the people who perform those roles *equally* - including cooking, cleaning, and childcare. All of those tasks matter, and I would argue that they matter more than the majority of jobs that exist just to shuffle wealth around while countless middle men (ahem women) stick their hands in to take their cut.

(And I am currently a SAHM but was a WOHM for over a decade)
Anonymous
Post 10/14/2024 13:02     Subject: Are you offended when someone says they “didnt want someone else to raise my kids”?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I wonder if I "had" to work or "chose" to work. We could have made it on DH's income but he does not want me to stay home because he wants an UMC lifestyle instead of a MC one, which I would have been fine with.


It doesn’t sound like you had a choice. I would have told him to make more money if he wanted a certain lifestyle. If a mother really feels it’s important to be at home for her children then a middle class lifestyle would be fine. Probably better than fine because there would be more like minded mothers to meet and less materialistic people around you.


Yes, a woman’s place is in the home. If he wants more money it’s his job as a leader of the home and provider to go get it. I don’t understand why you stood for this and let him bully you into a job.


I get you’re being sarcastic but the reality is more women than men would prefer to stay home and women have babies. You can claim that it shouldn’t be this way, but the vast majority of women are uninterested in a man who can’t provide for them. It’s biology.

Guarantee you that the PP had a terrible sex life and is or was unhappy. There’s nothing that kills a sex life for a woman like a man who can’t provide and allow a woman to stay home to watch her own kids.


So why should women go to college or grad school? If a 15 year old girl who wanted to be a lawyer and also have a family came to you for advice, would you tell her what you really believe, that women should be at home with their kids and be provided for by their husbands?


DP

I’m in my 40’s and I want to completely switch careers because I don’t actually like what I blindly chose when I was 18 years old.

Is that allowed? Am I just wasting my education?
Anonymous
Post 10/14/2024 13:00     Subject: Are you offended when someone says they “didnt want someone else to raise my kids”?
Anonymous wrote:I am 10000% offended by this and it’s also not true.
We have had several Nannies over the years and none of them ‘raised my kids’. My kids don’t even remember most of their names at this point and I need to remind them.
It’s just a lie that women who hated working tell themselves to justify doing nothing


Did your nannies do nothing?

No wonder your kids don’t remember them, you obviously have nothing but disdain for them.
Anonymous
Post 10/14/2024 12:55     Subject: Are you offended when someone says they “didnt want someone else to raise my kids”?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:So to every sahm on this thread (the new term for you is tradwives), congrats. You are fulfilling the vision of postliberal Christian nationalists like JD Vance and setting back women’s advancement. If you don’t care about equality with men then own that, and model to young girls that a woman belongs at home. But for those of who care about women’s rights, this anti-working woman trend discourse is troubling.


Do you honestly believe the only way to have equality with men is by working? You sound very narrow minded.


How do we achieve equality with men then? A PP above was saying that education was key to equality with men—so education is a way to have equal opportunities with men but working isn’t?


Women are not equal to men. Women cannot expect to have the same wages and same promotions if they don’t put in the same hours and work as men. This is almost impossible to do as the prime career development ages overlap with fertility and time of having young children. I’m not saying women cannot have careers or they should stay home. I think it was a huge disservice to girls in my generation to say we are equal.



Wow just wow!
Anonymous
Post 10/14/2024 12:54     Subject: Re:Are you offended when someone says they “didnt want someone else to raise my kids”?
Anonymous wrote:I would never say this to someone. Both SAHP and working parents are raising their kids and it’s offensive to state otherwise.

However, I do think all parents should spend more time w their kids during the kids’ childhoods. I think we should have more paid parental leave, more flexible work schedules, more time off for vacations and family time, our kids should have less time on screens, all things that would give families more time together. This is not any individual parent’s problem but a societal problem. Our society does not value kids and families and it should.



How do you propose we achieve this?
Anonymous
Post 10/14/2024 12:54     Subject: Are you offended when someone says they “didnt want someone else to raise my kids”?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:So to every sahm on this thread (the new term for you is tradwives), congrats. You are fulfilling the vision of postliberal Christian nationalists like JD Vance and setting back women’s advancement. If you don’t care about equality with men then own that, and model to young girls that a woman belongs at home. But for those of who care about women’s rights, this anti-working woman trend discourse is troubling.


All you are doing with this post and this rhetoric is putting down other women for choosing to spend more time with their kids. Do you not see something anti-woman about that? I do.


you just proved her point with your passive aggressive comment.


What do you want me to say? It’s the truth. Sorry it hurts your feelings.


I don’t think anyone’s feelings are hurt, but you just can’t help being passive aggressive, can you? lol.

Regardless, it’s clear you don’t spend any time in the world of ideas, which is not surprising. Saying that the current pro-tradwives discourse is troubling for anyone who cares about women’s rights is not “anti-women”—it’s simply an observation of how system-level change is going to affect whether future women choose a career or not.


World of ideas? You are trying to sound important, but it's clear you aren't in the world of reality. Especially by saying that women in general can choose to stay home or work. You are completely out of touch.
Anonymous
Post 10/14/2024 12:44     Subject: Are you offended when someone says they “didnt want someone else to raise my kids”?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:So to every sahm on this thread (the new term for you is tradwives), congrats. You are fulfilling the vision of postliberal Christian nationalists like JD Vance and setting back women’s advancement. If you don’t care about equality with men then own that, and model to young girls that a woman belongs at home. But for those of who care about women’s rights, this anti-working woman trend discourse is troubling.


Do you honestly believe the only way to have equality with men is by working? You sound very narrow minded.


How do we achieve equality with men then? A PP above was saying that education was key to equality with men—so education is a way to have equal opportunities with men but working isn’t?


Women are not equal to men. Women cannot expect to have the same wages and same promotions if they don’t put in the same hours and work as men. This is almost impossible to do as the prime career development ages overlap with fertility and time of having young children. I’m not saying women cannot have careers or they should stay home. I think it was a huge disservice to girls in my generation to say we are equal.


Exactly. You are saying what the tradwives on this thread won’t admit. A woman’s place is her home, a way of life that tracks perfectly with the Christian nationalist agenda that is now on the rise.


I’m a SAHM and the furthest you can get from a tradwife, and not Christian or nationalist or conservative. I don’t think you’ll win many over by calling names like that.

I’m a SAHM and a feminist. There are many others like me.


I’m not calling names. I work in trust and safety and monitoring online discourse is fundamental to my job. The term tradwife is replacing SAHM and that’s a fact. Am I using it here because it’s annoying women who don’t work take over DCUM threads concerning working women? Yes, I’ll admit that.

You may think you are a feminist but your lifestyle tracks with exactly what Christian nationalists want for this country: less working women. You are of course free to do whatever the heck you want to do and no one cares (if you don’t make these disclaimers the less bright tradwives will start writing about “freedom”) but your actions influence society and might dissuade a promising gynecologist from pursuing her career. When so many tradwives start saying that women who work are not raising their children, that will no doubt influence young girls pondering their future.


Why don’t you work to change the system then instead of attacking women who are not the problem. The Christian nationalists are the problem, not the women who are doing their best under a broken and misogynistic system.


I’m not attacking women! I’m defending working women facing onslaught from the postliberal Christian right and the white upper class SAHMs (dcum). The only way to change the system is for more women to stay in the workforce and push for work life balance! Again with the dumb disclaimers you have to make for the dim tradwives: no you are not forced to do anything, no one is talking about taking away your “freedom” or whatever.

I a personally don’t think the “raising your own kids” line is offensive at all. I would just smile politely at a woman who would say something like that. It’s in my personal interest for there to be less women in the workplace—more opportunities for me. But it’s not in the interest of women’s rights, which matter to me.


It’s in the interest of women’s rights for their to be better parental leave, better childcare and early education options, and more acceptance of women’s choices regarding childbearing and childrearing writ large. No one should be dictating how women should parent. We’re entitled to do what is best for us and our families. The level of hysteria and judgement and anger at women who made different choices is alarming.


Again, this is a free country. You are free to do whatever the heck you want, or in your case, not. No one is “dictating” anything to you or cares about you or your choices. I mentioned this upthread but of course you didn’t understand the point that you are not someone under siege fighting for her right to stay at home.

I am simply sounding the alarm to women who work that the Christian postliberal right and their unwitting allies in upper class tradwife white women are going to continue claiming that working moms don’t raise their kids and are not as good moms as tradwives.
Anonymous
Post 10/14/2024 12:35     Subject: Are you offended when someone says they “didnt want someone else to raise my kids”?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:So to every sahm on this thread (the new term for you is tradwives), congrats. You are fulfilling the vision of postliberal Christian nationalists like JD Vance and setting back women’s advancement. If you don’t care about equality with men then own that, and model to young girls that a woman belongs at home. But for those of who care about women’s rights, this anti-working woman trend discourse is troubling.


Do you honestly believe the only way to have equality with men is by working? You sound very narrow minded.


How do we achieve equality with men then? A PP above was saying that education was key to equality with men—so education is a way to have equal opportunities with men but working isn’t?


Women are not equal to men. Women cannot expect to have the same wages and same promotions if they don’t put in the same hours and work as men. This is almost impossible to do as the prime career development ages overlap with fertility and time of having young children. I’m not saying women cannot have careers or they should stay home. I think it was a huge disservice to girls in my generation to say we are equal.


Exactly. You are saying what the tradwives on this thread won’t admit. A woman’s place is her home, a way of life that tracks perfectly with the Christian nationalist agenda that is now on the rise.


I’m a SAHM and the furthest you can get from a tradwife, and not Christian or nationalist or conservative. I don’t think you’ll win many over by calling names like that.

I’m a SAHM and a feminist. There are many others like me.


I’m not calling names. I work in trust and safety and monitoring online discourse is fundamental to my job. The term tradwife is replacing SAHM and that’s a fact. Am I using it here because it’s annoying women who don’t work take over DCUM threads concerning working women? Yes, I’ll admit that.

You may think you are a feminist but your lifestyle tracks with exactly what Christian nationalists want for this country: less working women. You are of course free to do whatever the heck you want to do and no one cares (if you don’t make these disclaimers the less bright tradwives will start writing about “freedom”) but your actions influence society and might dissuade a promising gynecologist from pursuing her career. When so many tradwives start saying that women who work are not raising their children, that will no doubt influence young girls pondering their future.


Why don’t you work to change the system then instead of attacking women who are not the problem. The Christian nationalists are the problem, not the women who are doing their best under a broken and misogynistic system.


I’m not attacking women! I’m defending working women facing onslaught from the postliberal Christian right and the white upper class SAHMs (dcum). The only way to change the system is for more women to stay in the workforce and push for work life balance! Again with the dumb disclaimers you have to make for the dim tradwives: no you are not forced to do anything, no one is talking about taking away your “freedom” or whatever.

I a personally don’t think the “raising your own kids” line is offensive at all. I would just smile politely at a woman who would say something like that. It’s in my personal interest for there to be less women in the workplace—more opportunities for me. But it’s not in the interest of women’s rights, which matter to me.


It’s in the interest of women’s rights for their to be better parental leave, better childcare and early education options, and more acceptance of women’s choices regarding childbearing and childrearing writ large. No one should be dictating how women should parent. We’re entitled to do what is best for us and our families. The level of hysteria and judgement and anger at women who made different choices is alarming.
Anonymous
Post 10/14/2024 12:24     Subject: Are you offended when someone says they “didnt want someone else to raise my kids”?
Yes, and you’re SUPPOSED to be offended when someone says that. They are actively trying to hurt your feelings.
Anonymous
Post 10/14/2024 12:13     Subject: Are you offended when someone says they “didnt want someone else to raise my kids”?
What I haven't seen discussed here is that sometimes there is just no need for both spouses to work. Sometimes there is a very high earner and it's like- why would you both work? How much materially do you really need in this world?

It's one thing if someone doesn't want to leave a career that is their passion, but why work outside the home of you weigh the pros and cons and feel your kids would benefit from a SAHM/D/P? It's just math to some of us.
Anonymous
Post 10/14/2024 11:53     Subject: Are you offended when someone says they “didnt want someone else to raise my kids”?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:So to every sahm on this thread (the new term for you is tradwives), congrats. You are fulfilling the vision of postliberal Christian nationalists like JD Vance and setting back women’s advancement. If you don’t care about equality with men then own that, and model to young girls that a woman belongs at home. But for those of who care about women’s rights, this anti-working woman trend discourse is troubling.


Is a man allowed to stay home with kids in your ideal world? Not poking the bear, just genuinely curious what you would say to that.


I care about systems and societal trends. I haven’t given much thought to men who stay at home because I don’t think there will ever be enough of them to influence social norms. I know sahms like to say SAHPs to cosplay feminism, but we all know they are talking about SAHMs and that men who stay home are reviled—as posters on this thread have repeatedly noted.
Anonymous
Post 10/14/2024 11:51     Subject: Are you offended when someone says they “didnt want someone else to raise my kids”?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:So to every sahm on this thread (the new term for you is tradwives), congrats. You are fulfilling the vision of postliberal Christian nationalists like JD Vance and setting back women’s advancement. If you don’t care about equality with men then own that, and model to young girls that a woman belongs at home. But for those of who care about women’s rights, this anti-working woman trend discourse is troubling.


Is a man allowed to stay home with kids in your ideal world? Not poking the bear, just genuinely curious what you would say to that.

That person is cut from the same cloth as someone who would say the post title. Trying to define a dichotomy of parenting is miserable and myopic.
Anonymous
Post 10/14/2024 11:47     Subject: Are you offended when someone says they “didnt want someone else to raise my kids”?
Anonymous wrote:So to every sahm on this thread (the new term for you is tradwives), congrats. You are fulfilling the vision of postliberal Christian nationalists like JD Vance and setting back women’s advancement. If you don’t care about equality with men then own that, and model to young girls that a woman belongs at home. But for those of who care about women’s rights, this anti-working woman trend discourse is troubling.


Is a man allowed to stay home with kids in your ideal world? Not poking the bear, just genuinely curious what you would say to that.
Anonymous
Post 10/14/2024 11:43     Subject: Are you offended when someone says they “didnt want someone else to raise my kids”?
It took this many pages for me to see that I've designed my life to piss off the maximum amount of people but my kids are doing well. Seriously, most sahms and wohms can come together in their hate of my choices.
Anonymous
Post 10/14/2024 11:37     Subject: Are you offended when someone says they “didnt want someone else to raise my kids”?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:So to every sahm on this thread (the new term for you is tradwives), congrats. You are fulfilling the vision of postliberal Christian nationalists like JD Vance and setting back women’s advancement. If you don’t care about equality with men then own that, and model to young girls that a woman belongs at home. But for those of who care about women’s rights, this anti-working woman trend discourse is troubling.


Do you honestly believe the only way to have equality with men is by working? You sound very narrow minded.


How do we achieve equality with men then? A PP above was saying that education was key to equality with men—so education is a way to have equal opportunities with men but working isn’t?


Women are not equal to men. Women cannot expect to have the same wages and same promotions if they don’t put in the same hours and work as men. This is almost impossible to do as the prime career development ages overlap with fertility and time of having young children. I’m not saying women cannot have careers or they should stay home. I think it was a huge disservice to girls in my generation to say we are equal.


Exactly. You are saying what the tradwives on this thread won’t admit. A woman’s place is her home, a way of life that tracks perfectly with the Christian nationalist agenda that is now on the rise.


I’m a SAHM and the furthest you can get from a tradwife, and not Christian or nationalist or conservative. I don’t think you’ll win many over by calling names like that.

I’m a SAHM and a feminist. There are many others like me.


I’m not calling names. I work in trust and safety and monitoring online discourse is fundamental to my job. The term tradwife is replacing SAHM and that’s a fact. Am I using it here because it’s annoying women who don’t work take over DCUM threads concerning working women? Yes, I’ll admit that.

You may think you are a feminist but your lifestyle tracks with exactly what Christian nationalists want for this country: less working women. You are of course free to do whatever the heck you want to do and no one cares (if you don’t make these disclaimers the less bright tradwives will start writing about “freedom”) but your actions influence society and might dissuade a promising gynecologist from pursuing her career. When so many tradwives start saying that women who work are not raising their children, that will no doubt influence young girls pondering their future.


Why don’t you work to change the system then instead of attacking women who are not the problem. The Christian nationalists are the problem, not the women who are doing their best under a broken and misogynistic system.


I’m not attacking women! I’m defending working women facing onslaught from the postliberal Christian right and the white upper class SAHMs (dcum). The only way to change the system is for more women to stay in the workforce and push for work life balance! Again with the dumb disclaimers you have to make for the dim tradwives: no you are not forced to do anything, no one is talking about taking away your “freedom” or whatever.

I a personally don’t think the “raising your own kids” line is offensive at all. I would just smile politely at a woman who would say something like that. It’s in my personal interest for there to be less women in the workplace—more opportunities for me. But it’s not in the interest of women’s rights, which matter to me.