Estimate of what percent of families hire an outside counselor? And what do they do that the school counselor doesn’t

Also, should the school counselor guide your options and or help promote the school and relationships with college admissions offices?

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Anonymous wrote:College admissions have been unpredictable and sometimes shocking. But Sidwell students have been well prepared to succeed wherever they go. College isn't the end goal. It's just another step. They will all be fine.

This may all be true, but it’s also a distraction in the context of this discussion. This is the kind of nonsense that Mamadou and the school trots out, consistent with its arrogant and dismissive tone towards parents. It is a very convenient way to deflect any scrutiny of the school.

“Shocking” results are not OK just because the kids are well prepared. Saying that they will all be fine in this context suggests that college placement doesn’t matter.

Why is it Sidwell's fault that COVID prompted colleges to go test optional causing a steep decline in acceptance rates everywhere? All they can do is advise families of the landscape, which they did. The kids who were realistic about their options and chose a variety of schools that would make them happy, did fine. I have yet to hear about a senior who had no options.

IMO they did not advise families of the landscape or actually counsel families. “They will all be fine” is their crutch for not doing any meaningful, real advising or advocacy.

They absolutely did. Lauren was very clear from the beginning of junior year how COVID was changing things, how the then current class (2021) had to adjust and how it was very important not to focus on the reach+ schools but rather the targets and safeties. Sorry you didn't get the message. It was pretty clear at the time.

No need for the snarky response. And why are you making assumptions about my kid, who actually got in ED? That was no thanks to the school or its crappy counseling; everything I said above is 100% accurate, and I am pissed for my kid’s friends and classmates.

And I don’t know what you are talking about when you say “Lauren was very clear from the beginning of junior year...” Are you referring to the grade-wide zoom meetings? I attended all of those, and I disagree that any meaningful substantive advice or counseling was shared in those silly PowerPoint-heavy meetings going over checklists. Regardless, the real counseling and advising is supposed to occur in the individual meetings. And in those meetings, based on our experience and discussions with other parents, the counselors absolutely did not provide any real advice or counseling.

Then you weren't paying attention to what she was saying. She was very clear.

Congrats to your kid.

I know you keep saying this. I disagree with you. Neither of us can definitively establish that our recollection is the correct one.

As I said previously though, the much more important question is what all four counselors discussed in their individual meetings and communications with kids and families. That is the principal context in which counseling and advice is provided. And I will say, based on our own interactions with our kid's counselor, that there was absolutely no substantive advice provided whatsoever, much less any substantive advice provided regarding the "changing landscape." Believe me, I asked, and I got nothing in return. My discussions with other parents tells me that our family was not alone in this respect.

Except one of us got the message loud and clear and the other one can't remember, but was clearly bored by the power point.

Those meetings were not mandatory, and they were not recorded for parents who weren't able to watch them contemporaneously. Along with my having a different recollection than yours, do you realize how ridiculous it sounds for you to suggest that the only way in which this crucial piece of advice was conveyed from the CCO to parents was through a meeting on Zoom that they might not have been able to watch? And that somehow that constitutes the CCO doing its job well?

I got it several times - through the zoom, from out kids counselor and from the emails. They really were no hiding it.

Nope. Not true. Who was your kid’s counselor?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m lost as to what the CCO has to do with your child not getting into college.
I assume Sidwell parents are highly educated and capable of researching college admissions.

Did you feel out the common app with your child and honestly believe some magic was happening that you weren’t involved in that guaranteed their admission to every college they applied for?
Because, I’m thinking if you didn’t have the power to wil your child into Brown, the CCO sure didn’t either.

The role of a good CCO is to provide real advice and counseling, based on their knowledge of the student and also their knowledge and perspective as an inside expert at the school who has insight into all aspects of Sidwell's college placement process--an insight that parents, by definition, cannot and do not have on their own. Sidwell's CCO does not provide any of that meaningful advice and counseling.

Of course they're not going to will anyone's kid into a particular school. But there is a huge chasm between that absurd strawman you have created, and a CCO that is just pushing paper and making sure that deadlines are met (which is about all that Sidwell's office actually does).

They do this. It's just that many parents apparently don't want to or aren't willing to listen to what they are trying to tell you. and then fast forward a few months an you get a thread like this

No, they did not and do not do this. At least, our counselor did not. And it has already been discussed that there is a huge variance among the four counselors as to what they do. Also, I don’t know what you are talking about when you say “fast forward a few months.” Lots of parents have been consistently pointing out for months that the CCO is terrible and does not provide any advice or counseling. And before you accuse me of some sort of sour grapes complaining, let me tell you that my kid got in to their #1 choice. That was no thanks to the CCO though.

Last point: if the CCO is so great, why is the conventional wisdom among upper school parents that you need to hire a private counselor? I can’t even count how many 9th-11th grade parents there are who have told me that they have been advised this by parents of older kids or recent graduates.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m lost as to what the CCO has to do with your child not getting into college.
I assume Sidwell parents are highly educated and capable of researching college admissions.

Did you feel out the common app with your child and honestly believe some magic was happening that you weren’t involved in that guaranteed their admission to every college they applied for?
Because, I’m thinking if you didn’t have the power to wil your child into Brown, the CCO sure didn’t either.

The role of a good CCO is to provide real advice and counseling, based on their knowledge of the student and also their knowledge and perspective as an inside expert at the school who has insight into all aspects of Sidwell's college placement process--an insight that parents, by definition, cannot and do not have on their own. Sidwell's CCO does not provide any of that meaningful advice and counseling.

Of course they're not going to will anyone's kid into a particular school. But there is a huge chasm between that absurd strawman you have created, and a CCO that is just pushing paper and making sure that deadlines are met (which is about all that Sidwell's office actually does).

They do this. It's just that many parents apparently don't want to or aren't willing to listen to what they are trying to tell you. and then fast forward a few months an you get a thread like this

Anonymous wrote:Sidwell is a scam. The kids getting into top 15 schools from Sidwell are mostly legacy, URM and recruited athletes. They could have done this from literally any other school in the area. Sidwell admissions admits the parents and the situation to assure good outcomes down the road. Period.

counterpoint - not everyone, and I would venture *most* do not send their kids to any of these schools for the college outcomes...if that is the goal, the living in North dakota or alabama is a much better opportunity if the goal is HYP

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Anonymous wrote:College admissions have been unpredictable and sometimes shocking. But Sidwell students have been well prepared to succeed wherever they go. College isn't the end goal. It's just another step. They will all be fine.

This may all be true, but it’s also a distraction in the context of this discussion. This is the kind of nonsense that Mamadou and the school trots out, consistent with its arrogant and dismissive tone towards parents. It is a very convenient way to deflect any scrutiny of the school.

“Shocking” results are not OK just because the kids are well prepared. Saying that they will all be fine in this context suggests that college placement doesn’t matter.

Why is it Sidwell's fault that COVID prompted colleges to go test optional causing a steep decline in acceptance rates everywhere? All they can do is advise families of the landscape, which they did. The kids who were realistic about their options and chose a variety of schools that would make them happy, did fine. I have yet to hear about a senior who had no options.

IMO they did not advise families of the landscape or actually counsel families. “They will all be fine” is their crutch for not doing any meaningful, real advising or advocacy.

They absolutely did. Lauren was very clear from the beginning of junior year how COVID was changing things, how the then current class (2021) had to adjust and how it was very important not to focus on the reach+ schools but rather the targets and safeties. Sorry you didn't get the message. It was pretty clear at the time.

No need for the snarky response. And why are you making assumptions about my kid, who actually got in ED? That was no thanks to the school or its crappy counseling; everything I said above is 100% accurate, and I am pissed for my kid’s friends and classmates.

And I don’t know what you are talking about when you say “Lauren was very clear from the beginning of junior year...” Are you referring to the grade-wide zoom meetings? I attended all of those, and I disagree that any meaningful substantive advice or counseling was shared in those silly PowerPoint-heavy meetings going over checklists. Regardless, the real counseling and advising is supposed to occur in the individual meetings. And in those meetings, based on our experience and discussions with other parents, the counselors absolutely did not provide any real advice or counseling.

Then you weren't paying attention to what she was saying. She was very clear.

Congrats to your kid.

I know you keep saying this. I disagree with you. Neither of us can definitively establish that our recollection is the correct one.

As I said previously though, the much more important question is what all four counselors discussed in their individual meetings and communications with kids and families. That is the principal context in which counseling and advice is provided. And I will say, based on our own interactions with our kid's counselor, that there was absolutely no substantive advice provided whatsoever, much less any substantive advice provided regarding the "changing landscape." Believe me, I asked, and I got nothing in return. My discussions with other parents tells me that our family was not alone in this respect.

Except one of us got the message loud and clear and the other one can't remember, but was clearly bored by the power point.

Those meetings were not mandatory, and they were not recorded for parents who weren't able to watch them contemporaneously. Along with my having a different recollection than yours, do you realize how ridiculous it sounds for you to suggest that the only way in which this crucial piece of advice was conveyed from the CCO to parents was through a meeting on Zoom that they might not have been able to watch? And that somehow that constitutes the CCO doing its job well?

I got it several times - through the zoom, from out kids counselor and from the emails. They really were no hiding it.

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Anonymous wrote:Public school parent here. Sometimes I feel bad about my student not having gotten the type of education that kids at schools like Sidwell get. Then I read through threads like this one and THANK GOD that my kid wasn't in this type of toxic environment for the last few years, because:

1) my kid knows that their worth is not based on which college accepts them; and

2) we know that there are more than 7 great colleges out there.

As a prof, I have found the students from private schools to come in with a more sophisticated set of skills, but they don't seem to grow as fast in college. The students who get their first writing/reading/research intensives in college rather than in high school often just shoot up amazingly fast. Freshman fall I can tell who went to a 'good private'--by sophomore or junior year there's zero difference in reading/writing/critical thinking. Also, the former public school kids often seem more confident in their academic skills in their junior and senior years in college because they can sense their growth and it coincides with them living more independently. This isn't universal, of course,---just a trend I've noticed. It's been enough for me to decide that good public schools are fine for my kids.

This is good to hear. We have never seriously considered private--DH and I both went to public schools and believe strongly in principle on not leaving them--but have been underwhelmed by them, particular at the middle school/high school level....almost no long term assignments. DC did do well on APs and on SATs so that gave us a bit of confidence but we are sort of assuming the first year of college is going to be like drinking through a fire hose...

Anonymous wrote:Sidwell is a scam. The kids getting into top 15 schools from Sidwell are mostly legacy, URM and recruited athletes. They could have done this from literally any other school in the area. Sidwell admissions admits the parents and the situation to assure good outcomes down the road. Period.

You realize that once they get to whatever college it is, they do actually have aneducation to get with classes and call that.

Anonymous wrote:Sidwell is a scam. The kids getting into top 15 schools from Sidwell are mostly legacy, URM and recruited athletes. They could have done this from literally any other school in the area. Sidwell admissions admits the parents and the situation to assure good outcomes down the road. Period.

All top private schools do this. Why do you think the application asks where the parents went to college? They try to balance the class with URM, FA kids, Ivy legacy, power, and money. They need it all.

But, Sidwell is not a scam. It’s an incredible education and gives your child numerous benefits they wouldn’t have at a public school. If you send your kid to Sidwell just because you think it’s a sure road to Ivy, you have made a mistake.

Anonymous wrote:I’m lost as to what the CCO has to do with your child not getting into college.
I assume Sidwell parents are highly educated and capable of researching college admissions.

Did you feel out the common app with your child and honestly believe some magic was happening that you weren’t involved in that guaranteed their admission to every college they applied for?
Because, I’m thinking if you didn’t have the power to wil your child into Brown, the CCO sure didn’t either.

The role of a good CCO is to provide real advice and counseling, based on their knowledge of the student and also their knowledge and perspective as an inside expert at the school who has insight into all aspects of Sidwell's college placement process--an insight that parents, by definition, cannot and do not have on their own. Sidwell's CCO does not provide any of that meaningful advice and counseling.

Of course they're not going to will anyone's kid into a particular school. But there is a huge chasm between that absurd strawman you have created, and a CCO that is just pushing paper and making sure that deadlines are met (which is about all that Sidwell's office actually does).

It doesn’t take much to realize college admissions have changed because of the pandemic. Your CCO may be well connected but I doubt they can network for every senior.

I’m lost as to what the CCO has to do with your child not getting into college.
I assume Sidwell parents are highly educated and capable of researching college admissions.

Did you feel out the common app with your child and honestly believe some magic was happening that you weren’t involved in that guaranteed their admission to every college they applied for?
Because, I’m thinking if you didn’t have the power to wil your child into Brown, the CCO sure didn’t either.

Sidwell is a scam. The kids getting into top 15 schools from Sidwell are mostly legacy, URM and recruited athletes. They could have done this from literally any other school in the area. Sidwell admissions admits the parents and the situation to assure good outcomes down the road. Period.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:College admissions have been unpredictable and sometimes shocking. But Sidwell students have been well prepared to succeed wherever they go. College isn't the end goal. It's just another step. They will all be fine.

This may all be true, but it’s also a distraction in the context of this discussion. This is the kind of nonsense that Mamadou and the school trots out, consistent with its arrogant and dismissive tone towards parents. It is a very convenient way to deflect any scrutiny of the school.

“Shocking” results are not OK just because the kids are well prepared. Saying that they will all be fine in this context suggests that college placement doesn’t matter.

Why is it Sidwell's fault that COVID prompted colleges to go test optional causing a steep decline in acceptance rates everywhere? All they can do is advise families of the landscape, which they did. The kids who were realistic about their options and chose a variety of schools that would make them happy, did fine. I have yet to hear about a senior who had no options.

IMO they did not advise families of the landscape or actually counsel families. “They will all be fine” is their crutch for not doing any meaningful, real advising or advocacy.

They absolutely did. Lauren was very clear from the beginning of junior year how COVID was changing things, how the then current class (2021) had to adjust and how it was very important not to focus on the reach+ schools but rather the targets and safeties. Sorry you didn't get the message. It was pretty clear at the time.

No need for the snarky response. And why are you making assumptions about my kid, who actually got in ED? That was no thanks to the school or its crappy counseling; everything I said above is 100% accurate, and I am pissed for my kid’s friends and classmates.

And I don’t know what you are talking about when you say “Lauren was very clear from the beginning of junior year...” Are you referring to the grade-wide zoom meetings? I attended all of those, and I disagree that any meaningful substantive advice or counseling was shared in those silly PowerPoint-heavy meetings going over checklists. Regardless, the real counseling and advising is supposed to occur in the individual meetings. And in those meetings, based on our experience and discussions with other parents, the counselors absolutely did not provide any real advice or counseling.

Then you weren't paying attention to what she was saying. She was very clear.

Congrats to your kid.

I know you keep saying this. I disagree with you. Neither of us can definitively establish that our recollection is the correct one.

As I said previously though, the much more important question is what all four counselors discussed in their individual meetings and communications with kids and families. That is the principal context in which counseling and advice is provided. And I will say, based on our own interactions with our kid's counselor, that there was absolutely no substantive advice provided whatsoever, much less any substantive advice provided regarding the "changing landscape." Believe me, I asked, and I got nothing in return. My discussions with other parents tells me that our family was not alone in this respect.

Except one of us got the message loud and clear and the other one can't remember, but was clearly bored by the power point.

Those meetings were not mandatory, and they were not recorded for parents who weren't able to watch them contemporaneously. Along with my having a different recollection than yours, do you realize how ridiculous it sounds for you to suggest that the only way in which this crucial piece of advice was conveyed from the CCO to parents was through a meeting on Zoom that they might not have been able to watch? And that somehow that constitutes the CCO doing its job well?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why speculate when you can see the admissions on Instagram -

https://www.instagram.com/sidwellseniors2022/

15 kids out of 130. Great sample there.

You clicked on it Chet. Better information there than the this stupid thread.