Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem was that Toby didn't consult Kate about anything. He didn't tell her he had been offered the job in LA before turning it down. When she finds out about it, he doesn't want to tell her what the salary was. Maybe it was for a lot less, but maybe it was for less, but not so much less than when you take cost of living in LA vs SF into account the choice was very clear cut.

He takes her to see a house and says she has to decide to buy it the day after tomorrow. It's the third time he's seen the house. He's already applied for a loan. He hasn't discussed any of this with her. Maybe Kate might want to check out other houses and neighborhoods to see what she likes. Has he figured out where the closest good school for the blind is, what transportation would be involved, good daycare and schools for Haley, parks and playgrounds, etc.? Even long distance, you'd think he'd at least he'd have discussed the possibility of moving to SF with Kate and she would have spent some time researching this sort of thing.

He calls a Lyft without asking Kate if she wants to walk.

He can't come meet her at the airport because he's on a call. He takes a call when they go for a walk. He has to take a call in the morning. But he gets mad at Kate for calling the kids when they go for a walk!

It's not just the healthy lifestyle--it's ditching Kate at the party to discuss a pick for a fantasy football team;telling her waht she should talk about with his co-workers at the cocktail party, making reservations at very pricey, trendy restaurants--again without consulting Kate; buying expensive champagne, etc.

Yes! All of this!

Toby is a walking red flag with his behavior. He has not put her first since he took this job. He couldn't even have a nice weekend with her - only wanted to do it on his terms. He also seems "manic" almost. Perhaps the green egg sends him in a spiral down. Ugh, will be tough to watch.

+1

Toby, for a while now, has been living as if part of his mind sees himself as single. No need to consult on anything. His defensive "You want NUMBERS?!" at Kate, rather than just telling her the salary he'd been offered, was something I wish Kate had called him out on more strongly -- it's so transparent that he hadn't gotten his story straight on what he'd tell her about this job offer. If it was really a poor offer as he said, why not just tell her salary? The list above where PP notes the many ways he was either ignoring her (calls, calls, calls; fantasy football; dictating conversational topics etc.) plus how he was making choices for both of them, was all way beyond the pale. Someone said here that she wants to be together but only on her terms and i don't see that -- I see Toby acting like he's basically single, not her partner. Giving her the "if we want to be a family that has to happen in SF" ultimatum? Wow. I'd leave him too.

He’s probably making at least two to three times more than Kate as a TA. This is pretty simple to me. If he goes to SF and it’s a good fit, then Kate needs to move to SF. And yes, it almost always comes down to money.

Not when you have a special needs child and dying mother.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem was that Toby didn't consult Kate about anything. He didn't tell her he had been offered the job in LA before turning it down. When she finds out about it, he doesn't want to tell her what the salary was. Maybe it was for a lot less, but maybe it was for less, but not so much less than when you take cost of living in LA vs SF into account the choice was very clear cut.

He takes her to see a house and says she has to decide to buy it the day after tomorrow. It's the third time he's seen the house. He's already applied for a loan. He hasn't discussed any of this with her. Maybe Kate might want to check out other houses and neighborhoods to see what she likes. Has he figured out where the closest good school for the blind is, what transportation would be involved, good daycare and schools for Haley, parks and playgrounds, etc.? Even long distance, you'd think he'd at least he'd have discussed the possibility of moving to SF with Kate and she would have spent some time researching this sort of thing.

He calls a Lyft without asking Kate if she wants to walk.

He can't come meet her at the airport because he's on a call. He takes a call when they go for a walk. He has to take a call in the morning. But he gets mad at Kate for calling the kids when they go for a walk!

It's not just the healthy lifestyle--it's ditching Kate at the party to discuss a pick for a fantasy football team;telling her waht she should talk about with his co-workers at the cocktail party, making reservations at very pricey, trendy restaurants--again without consulting Kate; buying expensive champagne, etc.

Yes! All of this!

Toby is a walking red flag with his behavior. He has not put her first since he took this job. He couldn't even have a nice weekend with her - only wanted to do it on his terms. He also seems "manic" almost. Perhaps the green egg sends him in a spiral down. Ugh, will be tough to watch.

+1

Toby, for a while now, has been living as if part of his mind sees himself as single. No need to consult on anything. His defensive "You want NUMBERS?!" at Kate, rather than just telling her the salary he'd been offered, was something I wish Kate had called him out on more strongly -- it's so transparent that he hadn't gotten his story straight on what he'd tell her about this job offer. If it was really a poor offer as he said, why not just tell her salary? The list above where PP notes the many ways he was either ignoring her (calls, calls, calls; fantasy football; dictating conversational topics etc.) plus how he was making choices for both of them, was all way beyond the pale. Someone said here that she wants to be together but only on her terms and i don't see that -- I see Toby acting like he's basically single, not her partner. Giving her the "if we want to be a family that has to happen in SF" ultimatum? Wow. I'd leave him too.

He’s probably making at least two to three times more than Kate as a TA. This is pretty simple to me. If he goes to SF and it’s a good fit, then Kate needs to move to SF. And yes, it almost always comes down to money.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem was that Toby didn't consult Kate about anything. He didn't tell her he had been offered the job in LA before turning it down. When she finds out about it, he doesn't want to tell her what the salary was. Maybe it was for a lot less, but maybe it was for less, but not so much less than when you take cost of living in LA vs SF into account the choice was very clear cut.

He takes her to see a house and says she has to decide to buy it the day after tomorrow. It's the third time he's seen the house. He's already applied for a loan. He hasn't discussed any of this with her. Maybe Kate might want to check out other houses and neighborhoods to see what she likes. Has he figured out where the closest good school for the blind is, what transportation would be involved, good daycare and schools for Haley, parks and playgrounds, etc.? Even long distance, you'd think he'd at least he'd have discussed the possibility of moving to SF with Kate and she would have spent some time researching this sort of thing.

He calls a Lyft without asking Kate if she wants to walk.

He can't come meet her at the airport because he's on a call. He takes a call when they go for a walk. He has to take a call in the morning. But he gets mad at Kate for calling the kids when they go for a walk!

It's not just the healthy lifestyle--it's ditching Kate at the party to discuss a pick for a fantasy football team;telling her waht she should talk about with his co-workers at the cocktail party, making reservations at very pricey, trendy restaurants--again without consulting Kate; buying expensive champagne, etc.

Yes! All of this!

Toby is a walking red flag with his behavior. He has not put her first since he took this job. He couldn't even have a nice weekend with her - only wanted to do it on his terms. He also seems "manic" almost. Perhaps the green egg sends him in a spiral down. Ugh, will be tough to watch.

+1

Toby, for a while now, has been living as if part of his mind sees himself as single. No need to consult on anything. His defensive "You want NUMBERS?!" at Kate, rather than just telling her the salary he'd been offered, was something I wish Kate had called him out on more strongly -- it's so transparent that he hadn't gotten his story straight on what he'd tell her about this job offer. If it was really a poor offer as he said, why not just tell her salary? The list above where PP notes the many ways he was either ignoring her (calls, calls, calls; fantasy football; dictating conversational topics etc.) plus how he was making choices for both of them, was all way beyond the pale. Someone said here that she wants to be together but only on her terms and i don't see that -- I see Toby acting like he's basically single, not her partner. Giving her the "if we want to be a family that has to happen in SF" ultimatum? Wow. I'd leave him too.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem was that Toby didn't consult Kate about anything. He didn't tell her he had been offered the job in LA before turning it down. When she finds out about it, he doesn't want to tell her what the salary was. Maybe it was for a lot less, but maybe it was for less, but not so much less than when you take cost of living in LA vs SF into account the choice was very clear cut.

He takes her to see a house and says she has to decide to buy it the day after tomorrow. It's the third time he's seen the house. He's already applied for a loan. He hasn't discussed any of this with her. Maybe Kate might want to check out other houses and neighborhoods to see what she likes. Has he figured out where the closest good school for the blind is, what transportation would be involved, good daycare and schools for Haley, parks and playgrounds, etc.? Even long distance, you'd think he'd at least he'd have discussed the possibility of moving to SF with Kate and she would have spent some time researching this sort of thing.

He calls a Lyft without asking Kate if she wants to walk.

He can't come meet her at the airport because he's on a call. He takes a call when they go for a walk. He has to take a call in the morning. But he gets mad at Kate for calling the kids when they go for a walk!

It's not just the healthy lifestyle--it's ditching Kate at the party to discuss a pick for a fantasy football team;telling her waht she should talk about with his co-workers at the cocktail party, making reservations at very pricey, trendy restaurants--again without consulting Kate; buying expensive champagne, etc.

Yes! All of this!

Toby is a walking red flag with his behavior. He has not put her first since he took this job. He couldn't even have a nice weekend with her - only wanted to do it on his terms. He also seems "manic" almost. Perhaps the green egg sends him in a spiral down. Ugh, will be tough to watch.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'd like to shift discussion to how annoying Jack and Rebecca are as parents. It's definitely mostly the writing, though the acting doesn't help. They are so overly expressive--SUCH GREAT PARENTS, we get it--nobody talks to their kids like this.

Having a kid with anxiety that doesn't want to do things that you perceive as totally normal can really throw you for a loop. Maybe Jack and Rebecca are over the top, but the other part of it is trying (but sometimes failing) to not make your kid feel bad about the anxiety that they can't control. It's a very humbling experience.

DP. I find it interesting that Randall - arguably their child with the most anxiety - is quite a swimmer and has no fear about being in the water.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'd like to shift discussion to how annoying Jack and Rebecca are as parents. It's definitely mostly the writing, though the acting doesn't help. They are so overly expressive--SUCH GREAT PARENTS, we get it--nobody talks to their kids like this.

Where was Randall in all those pool scenes? Off reading a book or something? My mom radar was going off when I didn't see him with either parent.

DP. He was off swimming with no parental help. Which is what I found interesting - he didn't have his usual anxiety in the water.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'd like to shift discussion to how annoying Jack and Rebecca are as parents. It's definitely mostly the writing, though the acting doesn't help. They are so overly expressive--SUCH GREAT PARENTS, we get it--nobody talks to their kids like this.

Where was Randall in all those pool scenes? Off reading a book or something? My mom radar was going off when I didn't see him with either parent.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'd like to shift discussion to how annoying Jack and Rebecca are as parents. It's definitely mostly the writing, though the acting doesn't help. They are so overly expressive--SUCH GREAT PARENTS, we get it--nobody talks to their kids like this.

Having a kid with anxiety that doesn't want to do things that you perceive as totally normal can really throw you for a loop. Maybe Jack and Rebecca are over the top, but the other part of it is trying (but sometimes failing) to not make your kid feel bad about the anxiety that they can't control. It's a very humbling experience.

Anonymous wrote:I'd like to shift discussion to how annoying Jack and Rebecca are as parents. It's definitely mostly the writing, though the acting doesn't help. They are so overly expressive--SUCH GREAT PARENTS, we get it--nobody talks to their kids like this.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If Kate had walked up the hill with Toby she would've been whining the whole way. How he doesn't see her, or accept her, or is forcing her to exercise or who knows what drivel. But by herself she'll do it...

She wants to be by herself so she can martyr her life away.

Good for her for doing it, but it was quite passive aggressive. He's been working hard on fitness and health for a couple of years and has been kind about not nagging her in any way about it (other than general concern about kids' healthy habits). So she's getting back at him by walking up the hill? I don't get it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t disagree with what people have said on both sides of the Toby and Kate standoff. One thing that struck me was Toby being reluctant to tell Kate why he ordered another ride - he didn’t think she could make it up the hill walking, but still “wants” her to move to that house? I think he doesn’t really want her to move to be with him. Because he doesn’t think she fits in his new life.

He wants to be whacking his earbud and saying "Go for Damon!" She wants to wear a peasant dress while teaching kids hideous pop songs and beaming.

I have never looked forward to a fictional divorce more.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Team Toby.

Toby got his act together and improved his life. Kate still hasn't gotten her act together and improved her life - and it doesn't seem she wants to. She also doesn't want Toby to improve and get ahead. She doesn't want him to succeed.

I agree! Kate is acting like a brat. Not surprising given her past behavior but she's not even trying to see Toby's side of this. Just stamping her feet and walking away because she's not getting her way.

I get the mom issue, and I feel for her there, but she should have at least considered what Toby was offering. He's making an effort to keep his family together and he's right--Kate is perfectly happy being financially supported by Toby and living with her brother for emotional support. It's so weird.

But if she's so in love with the old Toby and can't stand this together Toby, how does she fall in love with that jerk at the blind school?

Plus, as the other flashbacks showed - Kate always hated to take risks. She was content hanging onto her dad in the swimming pool instead of learning to swim. She didn't want to scale the fence in order to escape the pool. She complained about being stuck in Pittsburgh but she never did anything to better her situation like going to college.

Right, and that was all preceded by Rebecca's exhortation to her adult children to live boldly and take risks and not be held back by consideration of her illness. So is Show suggesting that living boldly is taking a bigger job at the blind school and divorcing Toby? Because it seems to me that moving to San Francisco would be the bigger challenge/risk. That's where she'd have to really reconstruct her whole life.

Agreed.

Right, safe is staying nestled in the family fold. Grownups should cut the cord at some point.

Anonymous wrote:I don’t disagree with what people have said on both sides of the Toby and Kate standoff. One thing that struck me was Toby being reluctant to tell Kate why he ordered another ride - he didn’t think she could make it up the hill walking, but still “wants” her to move to that house? I think he doesn’t really want her to move to be with him. Because he doesn’t think she fits in his new life.