Anonymous wrote:This case will rest on whether Russia can prove it notified Ukraine the plane was carrying POWs.

But come to think of it, the plane was attacked within Russia, and I don't think you can make a case Russia owes anyone any notice on what it does within its borders. I just don't understand these legalities enough. But in terms of common sense, the question will be, "was Ukraine notified this plane was carrying POWs?"

I really doubt they did inform Ukraine.

Also the numbers the Russians are giving don’t add up given that many on the list were already back in Ukraine from earlier exchange.

Also Iran is involved somehow and Putin has his propaganda wing disseminating info,

The Russian version of events does not make sense except as exploiting situation to shame Ukraine even though they themselves are shameless war criminals with no regard for human let alone civilian life.

Anonymous wrote:This case will rest on whether Russia can prove it notified Ukraine the plane was carrying POWs.

But come to think of it, the plane was attacked within Russia, and I don't think you can make a case Russia owes anyone any notice on what it does within its borders. I just don't understand these legalities enough. But in terms of common sense, the question will be, "was Ukraine notified this plane was carrying POWs?"

What points toward this theory is the fact that Ukrainian media initially ran triumphant reports that the military took out a Russian plane, but once it became known the plane was carrying POWs, this was promptly deleted.

This case will rest on whether Russia can prove it notified Ukraine the plane was carrying POWs.

But come to think of it, the plane was attacked within Russia, and I don't think you can make a case Russia owes anyone any notice on what it does within its borders. I just don't understand these legalities enough. But in terms of common sense, the question will be, "was Ukraine notified this plane was carrying POWs?"

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think this il-76 was loaded with Ukrainian POWs. The flight path was Moscow to Iran and returning back. There was no organized prisoner exchange - and that takes a lot of planning. At least 18 of the alleged dead POWs had already been released. And Moscow is only claiming 6 dead among crew. Who takes that many POWs with so little security?

Ukrainians have clearly moved AA closer to the border. And they got a good one today. Likely missiles and drones being transferred from Iran. It was a big explosion if you look at the tape. Likely secondaries with all the weapons on board. They got an A-50 earlier this week - think Russian AWACS. And severely damaged an ll-22, which will likely never fly again.

I knew the Kremlin was lying - there is no way Ukraine would shoot down their own POW. And agree that there is no way Russia would send so many enemy POW with just 6 Russian officers.

This makes total sense and bravo Ukraine for catching the weapons of mass destruction sent via Iran. Russia and Iran alliance was made in Hell.

Putin is a lying, amoral and cynical war criminal. He really belongs in a Siberian prison.

Ukraine would totally shoot that plane if Russia did not advise them it was carrying POWs. They could have thought it was a military cargo.

DP

That is a possibility but intelligence suggests only 5 bodies taken to the morgue: Russia is blocking analysis of wreckage by Ukraine or neutral international officials .Putin has one of his chief propaganda agents putting out their version of events. This version is not credible and is suspicious they have Putin’s chief propaganda agent delivering news rather than relevant government officials.

This may mean that only five bodies were in the shape you can take to the morgue. It’s not uncommon in the history of plane crashes that the victims are pulverized or broken into hundreds of small fragments. Sorry for the morbid point.

Video is starting to emerge showing just that point.

I just don’t believe that Ukraine would murder 60+ of its own POWs.

Some of the people on the list that the Kremlin provided are reportedly alive and in Ukraine .

Why was Iran involved?

Why does Putin have well known propaganda agents delivering the news? Although any government officials who delivered the wrong version according to about in would probably end up dead.

They may not have shot their own but they totally could have shot at a military plane if they had no notice it was carrying POWs.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think this il-76 was loaded with Ukrainian POWs. The flight path was Moscow to Iran and returning back. There was no organized prisoner exchange - and that takes a lot of planning. At least 18 of the alleged dead POWs had already been released. And Moscow is only claiming 6 dead among crew. Who takes that many POWs with so little security?

Ukrainians have clearly moved AA closer to the border. And they got a good one today. Likely missiles and drones being transferred from Iran. It was a big explosion if you look at the tape. Likely secondaries with all the weapons on board. They got an A-50 earlier this week - think Russian AWACS. And severely damaged an ll-22, which will likely never fly again.

I knew the Kremlin was lying - there is no way Ukraine would shoot down their own POW. And agree that there is no way Russia would send so many enemy POW with just 6 Russian officers.

This makes total sense and bravo Ukraine for catching the weapons of mass destruction sent via Iran. Russia and Iran alliance was made in Hell.

Putin is a lying, amoral and cynical war criminal. He really belongs in a Siberian prison.

Ukraine would totally shoot that plane if Russia did not advise them it was carrying POWs. They could have thought it was a military cargo.

DP

That is a possibility but intelligence suggests only 5 bodies taken to the morgue: Russia is blocking analysis of wreckage by Ukraine or neutral international officials .Putin has one of his chief propaganda agents putting out their version of events. This version is not credible and is suspicious they have Putin’s chief propaganda agent delivering news rather than relevant government officials.

This may mean that only five bodies were in the shape you can take to the morgue. It’s not uncommon in the history of plane crashes that the victims are pulverized or broken into hundreds of small fragments. Sorry for the morbid point.

Video is starting to emerge showing just that point.

I just don’t believe that Ukraine would murder 60+ of its own POWs.

Some of the people on the list that the Kremlin provided are reportedly alive and in Ukraine .

Why was Iran involved?

Why does Putin have well known propaganda agents delivering the news? Although any government officials who delivered the wrong version according to about in would probably end up dead.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think this il-76 was loaded with Ukrainian POWs. The flight path was Moscow to Iran and returning back. There was no organized prisoner exchange - and that takes a lot of planning. At least 18 of the alleged dead POWs had already been released. And Moscow is only claiming 6 dead among crew. Who takes that many POWs with so little security?

Ukrainians have clearly moved AA closer to the border. And they got a good one today. Likely missiles and drones being transferred from Iran. It was a big explosion if you look at the tape. Likely secondaries with all the weapons on board. They got an A-50 earlier this week - think Russian AWACS. And severely damaged an ll-22, which will likely never fly again.

I knew the Kremlin was lying - there is no way Ukraine would shoot down their own POW. And agree that there is no way Russia would send so many enemy POW with just 6 Russian officers.

This makes total sense and bravo Ukraine for catching the weapons of mass destruction sent via Iran. Russia and Iran alliance was made in Hell.

Putin is a lying, amoral and cynical war criminal. He really belongs in a Siberian prison.

Ukraine would totally shoot that plane if Russia did not advise them it was carrying POWs. They could have thought it was a military cargo.

DP

That is a possibility but intelligence suggests only 5 bodies taken to the morgue: Russia is blocking analysis of wreckage by Ukraine or neutral international officials .Putin has one of his chief propaganda agents putting out their version of events. This version is not credible and is suspicious they have Putin’s chief propaganda agent delivering news rather than relevant government officials.

This may mean that only five bodies were in the shape you can take to the morgue. It’s not uncommon in the history of plane crashes that the victims are pulverized or broken into hundreds of small fragments. Sorry for the morbid point.

Video is starting to emerge showing just that point.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think this il-76 was loaded with Ukrainian POWs. The flight path was Moscow to Iran and returning back. There was no organized prisoner exchange - and that takes a lot of planning. At least 18 of the alleged dead POWs had already been released. And Moscow is only claiming 6 dead among crew. Who takes that many POWs with so little security?

Ukrainians have clearly moved AA closer to the border. And they got a good one today. Likely missiles and drones being transferred from Iran. It was a big explosion if you look at the tape. Likely secondaries with all the weapons on board. They got an A-50 earlier this week - think Russian AWACS. And severely damaged an ll-22, which will likely never fly again.

I knew the Kremlin was lying - there is no way Ukraine would shoot down their own POW. And agree that there is no way Russia would send so many enemy POW with just 6 Russian officers.

This makes total sense and bravo Ukraine for catching the weapons of mass destruction sent via Iran. Russia and Iran alliance was made in Hell.

Putin is a lying, amoral and cynical war criminal. He really belongs in a Siberian prison.

Ukraine would totally shoot that plane if Russia did not advise them it was carrying POWs. They could have thought it was a military cargo.

DP

That is a possibility but intelligence suggests only 5 bodies taken to the morgue: Russia is blocking analysis of wreckage by Ukraine or neutral international officials .Putin has one of his chief propaganda agents putting out their version of events. This version is not credible and is suspicious they have Putin’s chief propaganda agent delivering news rather than relevant government officials.

This may mean that only five bodies were in the shape you can take to the morgue. It’s not uncommon in the history of plane crashes that the victims are pulverized or broken into hundreds of small fragments. Sorry for the morbid point.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think this il-76 was loaded with Ukrainian POWs. The flight path was Moscow to Iran and returning back. There was no organized prisoner exchange - and that takes a lot of planning. At least 18 of the alleged dead POWs had already been released. And Moscow is only claiming 6 dead among crew. Who takes that many POWs with so little security?

Ukrainians have clearly moved AA closer to the border. And they got a good one today. Likely missiles and drones being transferred from Iran. It was a big explosion if you look at the tape. Likely secondaries with all the weapons on board. They got an A-50 earlier this week - think Russian AWACS. And severely damaged an ll-22, which will likely never fly again.

I knew the Kremlin was lying - there is no way Ukraine would shoot down their own POW. And agree that there is no way Russia would send so many enemy POW with just 6 Russian officers.

This makes total sense and bravo Ukraine for catching the weapons of mass destruction sent via Iran. Russia and Iran alliance was made in Hell.

Putin is a lying, amoral and cynical war criminal. He really belongs in a Siberian prison.

Ukraine would totally shoot that plane if Russia did not advise them it was carrying POWs. They could have thought it was a military cargo.

DP

That is a possibility but intelligence suggests only 5 bodies taken to the morgue: Russia is blocking analysis of wreckage by Ukraine or neutral international officials .Putin has one of his chief propaganda agents putting out their version of events. This version is not credible and is suspicious they have Putin’s chief propaganda agent delivering news rather than relevant government officials.

Sorry that was same PP /

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think this il-76 was loaded with Ukrainian POWs. The flight path was Moscow to Iran and returning back. There was no organized prisoner exchange - and that takes a lot of planning. At least 18 of the alleged dead POWs had already been released. And Moscow is only claiming 6 dead among crew. Who takes that many POWs with so little security?

Ukrainians have clearly moved AA closer to the border. And they got a good one today. Likely missiles and drones being transferred from Iran. It was a big explosion if you look at the tape. Likely secondaries with all the weapons on board. They got an A-50 earlier this week - think Russian AWACS. And severely damaged an ll-22, which will likely never fly again.

I knew the Kremlin was lying - there is no way Ukraine would shoot down their own POW. And agree that there is no way Russia would send so many enemy POW with just 6 Russian officers.

This makes total sense and bravo Ukraine for catching the weapons of mass destruction sent via Iran. Russia and Iran alliance was made in Hell.

Putin is a lying, amoral and cynical war criminal. He really belongs in a Siberian prison.

Ukraine would totally shoot that plane if Russia did not advise them it was carrying POWs. They could have thought it was a military cargo.

DP

That is a possibility but intelligence suggests only 5 bodies taken to the morgue: Russia is blocking analysis of wreckage by Ukraine or neutral international officials .Putin has one of his chief propaganda agents putting out their version of events. This version is not credible and is suspicious they have Putin’s chief propaganda agent delivering news rather than relevant government officials.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think this il-76 was loaded with Ukrainian POWs. The flight path was Moscow to Iran and returning back. There was no organized prisoner exchange - and that takes a lot of planning. At least 18 of the alleged dead POWs had already been released. And Moscow is only claiming 6 dead among crew. Who takes that many POWs with so little security?

Ukrainians have clearly moved AA closer to the border. And they got a good one today. Likely missiles and drones being transferred from Iran. It was a big explosion if you look at the tape. Likely secondaries with all the weapons on board. They got an A-50 earlier this week - think Russian AWACS. And severely damaged an ll-22, which will likely never fly again.

I knew the Kremlin was lying - there is no way Ukraine would shoot down their own POW. And agree that there is no way Russia would send so many enemy POW with just 6 Russian officers.

This makes total sense and bravo Ukraine for catching the weapons of mass destruction sent via Iran. Russia and Iran alliance was made in Hell.

Putin is a lying, amoral and cynical war criminal. He really belongs in a Siberian prison.

Ukraine would totally shoot that plane if Russia did not advise them it was carrying POWs. They could have thought it was a military cargo.

Agree with Ukrainian on need for an international investigation to establish the facts into the plane crash. Anything the Kremlin comes out with is usually distorted but calculate and cynical alternate facts.

I just don’t believe that Ukraine would murder their own POWs -‘it makes no sense. Russia is exploiting its non deserved position on the UN security council to push their preposterous version of events. Their never ending cruelty and mind games are beyond belief. I really don’t know how they sleep at night.

Zelenskyy said Russia was “playing with the lives of Ukrainian prisoners of war, the feelings of their relatives and the emotions of our society.”

That is putting it mildly.

At the Security Council, Ukraine’s envoy repeated her government’s call for an international investigation, saying that because the plane went down in Russian territory, Ukraine did not have access to it.

“Following the plane crash, the Federal Security Service and the Russian military did not allow emergency workers to inspect the crash site as per protocol,” Deputy U.N. Ambassador Khrystyna Hayovyshyn said. “According to our military intelligence, only five bodies were sent to the local morgue in Belgorod, and no human remains are visible on videos from the crash site.”

Several council members warned against speculation and accusations without critical facts yet established.

Video of Wednesday’s plane crash posted on social media showed a plane falling from the sky on its side before exploding into a massive fireball as it hit the ground in Russia’s snowy, rural western Belgorod region.

Kharkiv borders Belgorod. The two sides have carried out numerous prisoner swaps since Russia invaded Ukraine nearly two years ago.

https://www.voanews.com/amp/un-security-council-discusses-russian-military-plane-crash-near-ukraine-border-/7457995.html

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think this il-76 was loaded with Ukrainian POWs. The flight path was Moscow to Iran and returning back. There was no organized prisoner exchange - and that takes a lot of planning. At least 18 of the alleged dead POWs had already been released. And Moscow is only claiming 6 dead among crew. Who takes that many POWs with so little security?

Ukrainians have clearly moved AA closer to the border. And they got a good one today. Likely missiles and drones being transferred from Iran. It was a big explosion if you look at the tape. Likely secondaries with all the weapons on board. They got an A-50 earlier this week - think Russian AWACS. And severely damaged an ll-22, which will likely never fly again.

I knew the Kremlin was lying - there is no way Ukraine would shoot down their own POW. And agree that there is no way Russia would send so many enemy POW with just 6 Russian officers.

This makes total sense and bravo Ukraine for catching the weapons of mass destruction sent via Iran. Russia and Iran alliance was made in Hell.

Putin is a lying, amoral and cynical war criminal. He really belongs in a Siberian prison.

Ukraine is changing their story again, now they are starting to say Russia tricked them into shooting down their POWs.
https://www.businessinsider.com/ukraine-accuses-russia-tricking-it-into-shooting-down-pow-plane-2024-1?amp

Only 6 bodies in the wreckage. Where are the 65 POWs?

Where was the big explosion from S300 missiles?

Video of Wednesday’s plane crash posted on social media showed the plane falling from the sky on its side before exploding into a massive fireball as it hit the ground in Russia’s snowy, rural western Belgorod region.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are also reports that the Ilyushin 76 that was shot down was coming from Iran, not from some POW detention facility inside Russia.

There are also reports that a prisoner exchange was being discussed but that no concrete arrangements for today had been made between Russia and Ukraine.

And why would Russia even be using such an expensive mode of transport as an Ilyushin 76 to transport POWs in the first place?

Indeed - it does not add up …

I don’t believe anything the Kremlin alleges and need verification by credible person or agency …

Iran and Russia collaborated to fund, train and provide weapons to Hamas and I would not be surprised if Iran was involved in this with intent to turn West against Ukraine ….

It totally does not add up.

And more evidence is coming out that it was indeed a plane load of rockets.

And another thing that doesn't add up - Russia is circulating a list with names of the 65 POWs who supposedly died on that plane. Except 18 out of the 65 are known to be alive and well and were already returned to Ukraine in a different POW swap at the beginning of January.

OOPS.

You guys are all snooty about sources until something like a dubious POW list starts floating around. No official source has listed the names.

Margareta Simonyan is one major Russian figure who circulated the list of 65 POW names.

Yeah right Vlad - so credible - not!

Faces of Kremlin Propaganda: Margarita Simonyan
OTHER RELEASE
AUGUST 31, 2022

https://www.state.gov/disarming-disinformation/faces-of-kremlin-propaganda-margarita-simonyan/

Margarita Simonyan is one of Russian President Vladimir Putin’s main faces of propaganda and disinformation, both internationally and inside Russia. She is adept at serving up lies as truths — and with a smile. Margarita Simonyan started her career  in Kremlin-funded and controlled media in 2001 as a journalist for the All-Russia State Television and Radio Broadcasting Company (VGTRK). In 2005, she became editor-in-chief of Russia’s first state-funded English language media outlet, RT, formerly known as Russia Today. She maintains her RT position  while simultaneously serving as editor-in-chief of Rossiya Segodnya, editor-in-chief of TV-Novosti, and co-founder of the Association for the Development of International Journalism. Despite the many hats she wears, her main function is Vladimir Putin’s loyal propagandist.

Now we know for sure Russian trolls are frequenting here when they present a known Putin propaganda agent as credible source of verification.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are also reports that the Ilyushin 76 that was shot down was coming from Iran, not from some POW detention facility inside Russia.

There are also reports that a prisoner exchange was being discussed but that no concrete arrangements for today had been made between Russia and Ukraine.

And why would Russia even be using such an expensive mode of transport as an Ilyushin 76 to transport POWs in the first place?

Indeed - it does not add up …

I don’t believe anything the Kremlin alleges and need verification by credible person or agency …

Iran and Russia collaborated to fund, train and provide weapons to Hamas and I would not be surprised if Iran was involved in this with intent to turn West against Ukraine ….

It totally does not add up.

And more evidence is coming out that it was indeed a plane load of rockets.

And another thing that doesn't add up - Russia is circulating a list with names of the 65 POWs who supposedly died on that plane. Except 18 out of the 65 are known to be alive and well and were already returned to Ukraine in a different POW swap at the beginning of January.

OOPS.

You guys are all snooty about sources until something like a dubious POW list starts floating around. No official source has listed the names.

Margareta Simonyan is one major Russian figure who circulated the list of 65 POW names.

Yeah right Vlad - so credible - not!

Faces of Kremlin Propaganda: Margarita Simonyan
OTHER RELEASE
AUGUST 31, 2022

https://www.state.gov/disarming-disinformation/faces-of-kremlin-propaganda-margarita-simonyan/

Margarita Simonyan is one of Russian President Vladimir Putin’s main faces of propaganda and disinformation, both internationally and inside Russia. She is adept at serving up lies as truths — and with a smile. Margarita Simonyan started her career  in Kremlin-funded and controlled media in 2001 as a journalist for the All-Russia State Television and Radio Broadcasting Company (VGTRK). In 2005, she became editor-in-chief of Russia’s first state-funded English language media outlet, RT, formerly known as Russia Today. She maintains her RT position  while simultaneously serving as editor-in-chief of Rossiya Segodnya, editor-in-chief of TV-Novosti, and co-founder of the Association for the Development of International Journalism. Despite the many hats she wears, her main function is Vladimir Putin’s loyal propagandist.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think this il-76 was loaded with Ukrainian POWs. The flight path was Moscow to Iran and returning back. There was no organized prisoner exchange - and that takes a lot of planning. At least 18 of the alleged dead POWs had already been released. And Moscow is only claiming 6 dead among crew. Who takes that many POWs with so little security?

Ukrainians have clearly moved AA closer to the border. And they got a good one today. Likely missiles and drones being transferred from Iran. It was a big explosion if you look at the tape. Likely secondaries with all the weapons on board. They got an A-50 earlier this week - think Russian AWACS. And severely damaged an ll-22, which will likely never fly again.

I knew the Kremlin was lying - there is no way Ukraine would shoot down their own POW. And agree that there is no way Russia would send so many enemy POW with just 6 Russian officers.

This makes total sense and bravo Ukraine for catching the weapons of mass destruction sent via Iran. Russia and Iran alliance was made in Hell.

Putin is a lying, amoral and cynical war criminal. He really belongs in a Siberian prison.

Ukraine is changing their story again, now they are starting to say Russia tricked them into shooting down their POWs.
https://www.businessinsider.com/ukraine-accuses-russia-tricking-it-into-shooting-down-pow-plane-2024-1?amp

Only 6 bodies in the wreckage. Where are the 65 POWs?

Where was the big explosion from S300 missiles?