Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I still want to hear more on the defendants claims that this has happened before. That "brooming is a tradition at DHS".

I hope that's still under investigated, and not overlooked.

Right. And does that suggest that any of the sophomores were themselves victims of this when they were freshmen?

Didn't one of the young men attend a different school though?

They're 15. Very young men.

The case should be referred back to the juvenile system.

2.5 years from being able to enlist in the military, vote or sign legal contracts.


That is not that young.

I actually think it could work against them that they are being hailed as virtuous honor students, kind, and patient and with loving families. It makes them look worse because they should know so much better.

Off topic, but I do believe we are being trolled by someone related to the case.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I still want to hear more on the defendants claims that this has happened before. That "brooming is a tradition at DHS".

I hope that's still under investigated, and not overlooked.

Right. And does that suggest that any of the sophomores were themselves victims of this when they were freshmen?

Didn't one of the young men attend a different school though?

They're 15. Very young men.

The case should be referred back to the juvenile system.

Sorry, they are sophomores in high school, supposedly honor students one and all. Definitely able to tell the difference between right and wrong and to know that it is wrong, if not illegal to rape someone with a broomstick.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I still want to hear more on the defendants claims that this has happened before. That "brooming is a tradition at DHS".

I hope that's still under investigated, and not overlooked.

Right. And does that suggest that any of the sophomores were themselves victims of this when they were freshmen?

Didn't one of the young men attend a different school though?

They're 15. Very young men.

The case should be referred back to the juvenile system.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What’s the reasoning for trying them as adults instead of as juveniles?

The State's attorney said that by law 1st degree rape is always transferred to adult/criminal court. The attorneys for the defendants can request a waiver to have it sent back to juvenile court.

The attorneys for the defendants HAVE requested a waiver to have it sent back to juvenile court.

That courtroom is going to be filled to the brim. Can’t wait for the names to be released.

Names?

Names of the perpetrators is already in the news. The names and identity of victims should be protected.

The students being charged are Jean Claude "JC" Abedi, Kristian "KJ" Jamal Lee, Will Daniel Smith, and Caleb Thorpe. All four are 15 years old, but are being charged as adults, prosecutors said.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/high-school-football-players-charged-allegedly-raping-teammates/story?id=59447772

Glad they’re being charged as adults and hope they rot for at least a decade each.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lots of people can do horribly mean and brutal things as 15 year olds and grow up into adults with appropriate values and the ability to control themselves. Kids are still growing and developing and are incredibly susceptible to peer pressure and what they (often wrongly) believe is ok or acceptable in a particular context. There may be a ringleader among them who is seriously disturbed, but it’s entirely possible that some kids involved in this kind of offense would grow up to be appropriately horrified by what they’d done.

Not trying to be argumentative, but do you have a link to support your statement that an individual who has committed sodomy rape may later be appropriately horrified by their actions?

Thanks in advance.

DP, but this is a relevant read: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/misunderstood-crimes/

Interesting, thanks for posting.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lots of people can do horribly mean and brutal things as 15 year olds and grow up into adults with appropriate values and the ability to control themselves. Kids are still growing and developing and are incredibly susceptible to peer pressure and what they (often wrongly) believe is ok or acceptable in a particular context. There may be a ringleader among them who is seriously disturbed, but it’s entirely possible that some kids involved in this kind of offense would grow up to be appropriately horrified by what they’d done.

Not trying to be argumentative, but do you have a link to support your statement that an individual who has committed sodomy rape may later be appropriately horrified by their actions?

Thanks in advance.

DP, but this is a relevant read: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/misunderstood-crimes/

Anonymous wrote:Lots of people can do horribly mean and brutal things as 15 year olds and grow up into adults with appropriate values and the ability to control themselves. Kids are still growing and developing and are incredibly susceptible to peer pressure and what they (often wrongly) believe is ok or acceptable in a particular context. There may be a ringleader among them who is seriously disturbed, but it’s entirely possible that some kids involved in this kind of offense would grow up to be appropriately horrified by what they’d done.

Not trying to be argumentative, but do you have a link to support your statement that an individual who has committed sodomy rape may later be appropriately horrified by their actions?

Thanks in advance.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the fundamental question that we as a society have to consider is are there crimes that are so deplorable that one might consider a person virtually unredeemable or not worthy of such an effort? Is justice about punishment or redemption?

Justice is about punishment of the offender and/or restitution for the victim.

Redemption is a construct of the establishment. You can mandate punishment. You can't mandate rehabilitation.

Do we have a responsibility as a people to try to facilitate and provide rehabilitation or no? (not trolling, just thinking this out) If we don't have a moral obligation does it just make financial sense to do so?

I think we do have a responsibility as a people to provide rehabilitation. Otherwise, what kind of people are we? Who do we want to be?

Until the 1970s, our prisons saw rehabilitation as part of their mission. Then the tough on crime era started, and rehabilitation became more and more of an afterthought until it was pretty much disregarded. That's also when we started treating more juvenile offenders as adults. Now, some people are actually offended at the idea of rehabilitation in prison. Many in our society see prison as only punishment, retribution, or revenge. They don't want vocational training, college courses, therapy, or any comfortable living conditions. They want prisoners to suffer because they are being punished. Never mind that the vast majority of prisoners will one day be back out in society and will struggle more and fall back into crime at a higher rate because of how they were treated in prison and what little services and opportunities they had.

Studies show that rehabilitation works, and it costs society less in reduced recidivism. It's safer for the public and is also more humane. But it also involves thinking of convicts as people who can change and have intrinsic worth as human beings. In a vindictive society like ours that's pretty tough.

When our prison wardens visit countries like Norway, they are shocked at how the prisoners live, and how they interact with the guards. They are treated like people who will one day be back in society. And these same wardens tend to come away realizing that things need to change in our country.

The rate that we lock people up here in the US and the conditions in our prisons says a lot about us. It's not something to be proud of. Can all criminals be rehabilitated? Of course not. Should some people never be released? Of course. But for most prisoners (many who should not be in prison), we can do better, if not for them as human beings, then for society.

And I don't know about the children in question in this case. I'll leave that up to the professionals. Hopefully, they will be properly evaluated.

Anonymous wrote:Lots of people can do horribly mean and brutal things as 15 year olds and grow up into adults with appropriate values and the ability to control themselves. Kids are still growing and developing and are incredibly susceptible to peer pressure and what they (often wrongly) believe is ok or acceptable in a particular context. There may be a ringleader among them who is seriously disturbed, but it’s entirely possible that some kids involved in this kind of offense would grow up to be appropriately horrified by what they’d done.

This is deviant behavior.

Lots of people can do horribly mean and brutal things as 15 year olds and grow up into adults with appropriate values and the ability to control themselves. Kids are still growing and developing and are incredibly susceptible to peer pressure and what they (often wrongly) believe is ok or acceptable in a particular context. There may be a ringleader among them who is seriously disturbed, but it’s entirely possible that some kids involved in this kind of offense would grow up to be appropriately horrified by what they’d done.

Anonymous wrote:Unfortunately, I'm not sure that one can rehabilitate a person capable of sodomy rape. Maybe it is possible, but hopefully these rapists will have to register as a sex offenders for the rest of their lives and be closely monitored. I'm not sure that would be possible under the juvenile system. The priority should be the safety of society as a whole and the innocent victims, not the perpetrators. Sure it would be great if they could one day be productive citizens, but I have my doubts.

Low recovery rates.

Unfortunately, I'm not sure that one can rehabilitate a person capable of sodomy rape. Maybe it is possible, but hopefully these rapists will have to register as a sex offenders for the rest of their lives and be closely monitored. I'm not sure that would be possible under the juvenile system. The priority should be the safety of society as a whole and the innocent victims, not the perpetrators. Sure it would be great if they could one day be productive citizens, but I have my doubts.

Anonymous wrote:Do we have a responsibility as a people to try to facilitate and provide rehabilitation or no? (not trolling, just thinking this out) If we don't have a moral obligation does it just make financial sense to do so?

Personally, I would say that morally we should. However, as a society I don't see a clear path to do so effectively.

Do we have a responsibility as a people to not let our elementary school children to play first person shooter games like Call of Duty or Fortnight that glorify gun violence and murder or do we have 9 year old birthday parties celebrating it because 'everyone else is playing it'? *shrug* As a society we've lost accountability and more often then not we take the path of least resistance... I'll take punishment for crimes first and hope that some sort rehabilitation occurs during incarceration. But as a realist, I don't have high expectations.