The problem was that Toby didn't consult Kate about anything. He didn't tell her he had been offered the job in LA before turning it down. When she finds out about it, he doesn't want to tell her what the salary was. Maybe it was for a lot less, but maybe it was for less, but not so much less than when you take cost of living in LA vs SF into account the choice was very clear cut.

He takes her to see a house and says she has to decide to buy it the day after tomorrow. It's the third time he's seen the house. He's already applied for a loan. He hasn't discussed any of this with her. Maybe Kate might want to check out other houses and neighborhoods to see what she likes. Has he figured out where the closest good school for the blind is, what transportation would be involved, good daycare and schools for Haley, parks and playgrounds, etc.? Even long distance, you'd think he'd at least he'd have discussed the possibility of moving to SF with Kate and she would have spent some time researching this sort of thing.

He calls a Lyft without asking Kate if she wants to walk.

He can't come meet her at the airport because he's on a call. He takes a call when they go for a walk. He has to take a call in the morning. But he gets mad at Kate for calling the kids when they go for a walk!

It's not just the healthy lifestyle--it's ditching Kate at the party to discuss a pick for a fantasy football team;telling her waht she should talk about with his co-workers at the cocktail party, making reservations at very pricey, trendy restaurants--again without consulting Kate; buying expensive champagne, etc.

Anonymous wrote:I am finding Kate to be more and more unlikable with each episode. Toby could’ve handled things better, but she is painfully limited and narrow-thinking. She can’t picture the new future with Toby in SF just like she couldn’t picture her future at all when she was younger. And she’s so risk-adverse and co-dependent with her family that she’d rather end her marriage and find someone who better fits the careful, precise world she prefers to inhabit. It’s frustrating to watch.

she is so set in her ways. her stand alone episodes are not my favorite. Bring on the randall Episodes!!!

however I will say everyone still hates the guy she is going to marry and I only remember him being a jerk when he was breaking up with the woman. I feel like we've all had not so nice moments in break ups so what else did I miss (not remember) that you are all holding against him? He has been very pleasant and kind to Kate in recent episodes and it feels like a standard tv/movie thing for 2 characters to hate each other and then suddenly realize they are in love so it all tracks for me...

Anonymous wrote:I am finding Kate to be more and more unlikable with each episode. Toby could’ve handled things better, but she is painfully limited and narrow-thinking. She can’t picture the new future with Toby in SF just like she couldn’t picture her future at all when she was younger. And she’s so risk-adverse and co-dependent with her family that she’d rather end her marriage and find someone who better fits the careful, precise world she prefers to inhabit. It’s frustrating to watch.

+1

She wants to be married to Toby, but only on her own, very precise terms.

I am finding Kate to be more and more unlikable with each episode. Toby could’ve handled things better, but she is painfully limited and narrow-thinking. She can’t picture the new future with Toby in SF just like she couldn’t picture her future at all when she was younger. And she’s so risk-adverse and co-dependent with her family that she’d rather end her marriage and find someone who better fits the careful, precise world she prefers to inhabit. It’s frustrating to watch.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t disagree with what people have said on both sides of the Toby and Kate standoff. One thing that struck me was Toby being reluctant to tell Kate why he ordered another ride - he didn’t think she could make it up the hill walking, but still “wants” her to move to that house? I think he doesn’t really want her to move to be with him. Because he doesn’t think she fits in his new life.

I disagree with your opinion that he doesn’t think she fits in with his new life. I would have expected him not to take her to the party or for his co-workers to be surprised at her weight. Instead, he proudly took her to the party and introduced her to everyone. No one was surprised at her weight. It wasn’t like he was embarrassed of her.

I agree. He was thrilled at the prospect of the family being together in SF.

Anonymous wrote:I don’t disagree with what people have said on both sides of the Toby and Kate standoff. One thing that struck me was Toby being reluctant to tell Kate why he ordered another ride - he didn’t think she could make it up the hill walking, but still “wants” her to move to that house? I think he doesn’t really want her to move to be with him. Because he doesn’t think she fits in his new life.

I disagree with your opinion that he doesn’t think she fits in with his new life. I would have expected him not to take her to the party or for his co-workers to be surprised at her weight. Instead, he proudly took her to the party and introduced her to everyone. No one was surprised at her weight. It wasn’t like he was embarrassed of her.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t disagree with what people have said on both sides of the Toby and Kate standoff. One thing that struck me was Toby being reluctant to tell Kate why he ordered another ride - he didn’t think she could make it up the hill walking, but still “wants” her to move to that house? I think he doesn’t really want her to move to be with him. Because he doesn’t think she fits in his new life.

He wants to be whacking his earbud and saying "Go for Damon!" She wants to wear a peasant dress while teaching kids hideous pop songs and beaming.

I have never looked forward to a fictional divorce more.

This made me cackle out loud. This is the right attitude.

That house would be about $6 million. There is no way the difference in salary between SF and LA would make up for that. I work in tech so it kills me to see how they position his “difficulty” finding work and how SF is the only place he can work. SF pays more because it’s freaking expensive to live there.

I hated how Toby handled things but agree Kate isn’t any better.

Anonymous wrote:If Kate had walked up the hill with Toby she would've been whining the whole way. How he doesn't see her, or accept her, or is forcing her to exercise or who knows what drivel. But by herself she'll do it...

She wants to be by herself so she can martyr her life away.

Good for her for doing it, but it was quite passive aggressive. He's been working hard on fitness and health for a couple of years and has been kind about not nagging her in any way about it (other than general concern about kids' healthy habits). So she's getting back at him by walking up the hill? I don't get it.

Anonymous wrote:I thought it was so weird that Kate didn’t know what Toby’s salary was. Don’t most spouses share this kind of info with each other. My spouse and I certainly do.

She knows his current salary, not whatever offer he received in LA that he turned down without telling her. I'm generally on his side here, but his reluctance not to share the actual number was shady. The issue of the demotion and his happiness in his current job are valid though.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Plus, as the other flashbacks showed - Kate always hated to take risks. She was content hanging onto her dad in the swimming pool instead of learning to swim. She didn't want to scale the fence in order to escape the pool. She complained about being stuck in Pittsburgh but she never did anything to better her situation like going to college.

Right, and that was all preceded by Rebecca's exhortation to her adult children to live boldly and take risks and not be held back by consideration of her illness. So is Show suggesting that living boldly is taking a bigger job at the blind school and divorcing Toby? Because it seems to me that moving to San Francisco would be the bigger challenge/risk. That's where she'd have to really reconstruct her whole life.

Giving up everything she cares about to save a marriage to someone who has none of the personality traits that first drew her to him seems like the cringing, submissive choice to me.

Crossfit techbro who's always on a call is appealing to some woman, but I can see why it doesn't do anything for Kate

Well easy to see why she wouldn't have anything in common with a fitness buff who is professionally driven, true. But he's still sweet and funny outside of that. Look, I get that they're both very happy in their current cities, but something's got to give. Even if Kate gets "Janice's job" doubtful she'd make enough to support herself and two kids. In SF, she could do whatever she wanted courtesy of Toby's higher salary. And that includes continuing to work with blind children.

I really liked the way Kate passed on cake at the retirement party and took a couple of macarons rather than a stack like the thin guy she was chatting with -- no because I care if she eats sweets but because that and her walk up the hill showed an effort (failed for a lot of DCUM posters, of course) that she is not someone who just wants to eat donuts on the sofa.

Weird how the brave thing is being defined as "living off a man"

She's never had to support herself with FT work, ever. Her family, then her husband, coddled her. Good for her that she's now interested in FT work but my point stands she still won't make enough to support the three of them in LA.

Anonymous wrote:I don’t disagree with what people have said on both sides of the Toby and Kate standoff. One thing that struck me was Toby being reluctant to tell Kate why he ordered another ride - he didn’t think she could make it up the hill walking, but still “wants” her to move to that house? I think he doesn’t really want her to move to be with him. Because he doesn’t think she fits in his new life.

He wants to be whacking his earbud and saying "Go for Damon!" She wants to wear a peasant dress while teaching kids hideous pop songs and beaming.

I have never looked forward to a fictional divorce more.

Anonymous wrote:What a low barrier PP has for effort!

To be sure we're all clear, I'm talking about the writers making an effort, not Kate. And my bar is low because virtually every other TV show and movie has lowered it.

I thought it was so weird that Kate didn’t know what Toby’s salary was. Don’t most spouses share this kind of info with each other. My spouse and I certainly do.

If Kate had walked up the hill with Toby she would've been whining the whole way. How he doesn't see her, or accept her, or is forcing her to exercise or who knows what drivel. But by herself she'll do it...

She wants to be by herself so she can martyr her life away.