I live a mile from this resort. Disney is 1000000% negligent. I walk along a path by the water here and there are no gator signs. No swimming can mean a lot of things. I hope they lose millions and tourism goes in the toliet.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand this mindset that if something bad happens to you unexpectedly you feel entitled that someone should have predicted it and prevented it for you.

+1000. This is what's wrong with America. Should Disney have posted signs warning about alligators? Probably. But who is ultimately responsible for this tragedy? The parents who allowed their 2 y/o to wade/swim in 12 inches of water at 9:30 despite the "No swimming" signs. The average 2 y/o is about 2 feet & this child was in 1 foot of water at night. Of course something tragic could happen. Unfortunately, it did and the child paid the ultimate consequence. I don't understand how anyone could think Disney is responsible for this.

You have answered your own rhetorical question

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand this mindset that if something bad happens to you unexpectedly you feel entitled that someone should have predicted it and prevented it for you.

+1000. This is what's wrong with America. Should Disney have posted signs warning about alligators? Probably. But who is ultimately responsible for this tragedy? The parents who allowed their 2 y/o to wade/swim in 12 inches of water at 9:30 despite the "No swimming" signs. The average 2 y/o is about 2 feet & this child was in 1 foot of water at night. Of course something tragic could happen. Unfortunately, it did and the child paid the ultimate consequence. I don't understand how anyone could think Disney is responsible for this.

Wrong. Some activities are defined as an "ultrahazardous activity", in which the company will be held strictly liable. This is one example.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand this mindset that if something bad happens to you unexpectedly you feel entitled that someone should have predicted it and prevented it for you.

+1000. This is what's wrong with America. Should Disney have posted signs warning about alligators? Probably. But who is ultimately responsible for this tragedy? The parents who allowed their 2 y/o to wade/swim in 12 inches of water at 9:30 despite the "No swimming" signs. The average 2 y/o is about 2 feet & this child was in 1 foot of water at night. Of course something tragic could happen. Unfortunately, it did and the child paid the ultimate consequence. I don't understand how anyone could think Disney is responsible for this.

Come on the parents aren't responsible either. Not every tragedy needs a villain. They were very obviously supervising if they were able to intervene and try at all to save him.

Where do you get that the child was in 12 inches of water? I thought the child was in a few inches of water, a foot beyond the sand. Big difference.

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand this mindset that if something bad happens to you unexpectedly you feel entitled that someone should have predicted it and prevented it for you.

+1000. This is what's wrong with America. Should Disney have posted signs warning about alligators? Probably. But who is ultimately responsible for this tragedy? The parents who allowed their 2 y/o to wade/swim in 12 inches of water at 9:30 despite the "No swimming" signs. The average 2 y/o is about 2 feet & this child was in 1 foot of water at night. Of course something tragic could happen. Unfortunately, it did and the child paid the ultimate consequence. I don't understand how anyone could think Disney is responsible for this.

Anonymous wrote:Under tort law it is very likely that a court would find Disney negligent. The resort had a duty to keep its visitors safe. It breached that duty by not adequately warning/protecting guests from gator infested waters. A "no swimming sign" would not be sufficient as the event could have occurred regardless of if the child was in or out of the water. The gator in the gator infested waters was the direct cause of the family's injury. It was also the proximate cause as it was foreseeable that gators and people would be in those waters. Damages occurred with the loss of the son.

Even if you want to say the parents were contributory negligent because they ignored or failed to see the "no swimming," Florida is not a pure contributory negligence State, so it doesn't bar the family from collecting damages. Disney will end up settling with this family. None of this will bring their child back to them. I truly feel for the family and the people who witnessed the event.

This is never going to trial, so I don't think the legal theories matter. Disney has a brand to protect and the last thing it needs is a long drawn out jury trial splashed on the front pages thus causing people worldwide to cancel vacations. They'll settle quickly and quietly for a few million and you'll never hear of this again as the settlement will include clauses re not talking to the press/not selling the story for movie rights.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, Disney will be held liable. Although there are alligators in Florida, Disney has set up that beach as a place to hang out for young children. Children will put their feet in water. the alligator is completely able to come up on the shore and snack a child. There are no signs that say Danger: alligators. Once it gets in front of a jury -- right or wrong -- they will go crazy with an award. Disney will settle out of court. Disney would look heartless in the media and besides very unsafe. Also it could easily be argued that they knew that alligators could and would go into those lake and that it was their responsibility to keep the alligators removed by whatever means. That will be very difficult, but still it will be the argument. The shorelines of Disney may change forever over this.

If I were a lawyer for Disney, I'd be telling people up and down that the "No swimming" policy is because there is no life guard on duty/drowning risk. I'd act surprised as hell to hear about an alligator attack and cite Jeff Corbin and other wildlife experts who are saying what a rare an odd occurrence this is. They should not even attempt to make the argument that the family was in the wrong. They need to focus on the fact that it was a weird and rare thing that they could not possibly anticipate.

None of that really matters. it is a child and they were not warned. disney will be paying them. And yes, alligators DO kill people. who knew?
http://www.gameandfishmag.com/hunting/hunting_big-game-hunting_ra_0109_03/

Do oceanfront resorts alert everyone there are sharks in the water?

Yes, they do, especially if the sharks are known to frequent the area. And if the lifeguards spot a shark, they go crazy to get everyone out of the water immediately.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From what I understand, shit happening at Disney/families being paid off isn't a rare occurance. In the mid-90s, someone told me about an incident a family member of theirs had re: falling off of the train that takes them from the parks to the parking lot. They were compensated for their troubles. I refuse to believe that this is the first alligator incident. Perhaps the first of this magnitude, but Disney World is a big place, there are lots of visitors every year.

This. There is no way that Disney isn't already working on a settlement with this family (and maybe some witnesses as well).

It's possible that Disney wants to present them a settlement offer w/ a waiver for all further litigation right NOW -- before they leave the park/property. They're absolutely stunned, grieving, and likely far from any extended family or lawyers right now. It's likely that given a few million dollar offer, they'll sign it thinking they have no further options or being too overwhelmed to even really think about lawyers. Once they go back to Nebraska and start really processing it -- it's very likely that a grandparent or a colleague or neighbor says, have you sued Disney and then convinces them to do so; so it's in Disney's interest that by that time, the waiver is totally in place and they can't sue even if they want. I imagine it's a long statute of limitations for this.

Under tort law it is very likely that a court would find Disney negligent. The resort had a duty to keep its visitors safe. It breached that duty by not adequately warning/protecting guests from gator infested waters. A "no swimming sign" would not be sufficient as the event could have occurred regardless of if the child was in or out of the water. The gator in the gator infested waters was the direct cause of the family's injury. It was also the proximate cause as it was foreseeable that gators and people would be in those waters. Damages occurred with the loss of the son.

Even if you want to say the parents were contributory negligent because they ignored or failed to see the "no swimming," Florida is not a pure contributory negligence State, so it doesn't bar the family from collecting damages. Disney will end up settling with this family. None of this will bring their child back to them. I truly feel for the family and the people who witnessed the event.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, Disney will be held liable. Although there are alligators in Florida, Disney has set up that beach as a place to hang out for young children. Children will put their feet in water. the alligator is completely able to come up on the shore and snack a child. There are no signs that say Danger: alligators. Once it gets in front of a jury -- right or wrong -- they will go crazy with an award. Disney will settle out of court. Disney would look heartless in the media and besides very unsafe. Also it could easily be argued that they knew that alligators could and would go into those lake and that it was their responsibility to keep the alligators removed by whatever means. That will be very difficult, but still it will be the argument. The shorelines of Disney may change forever over this.

If I were a lawyer for Disney, I'd be telling people up and down that the "No swimming" policy is because there is no life guard on duty/drowning risk. I'd act surprised as hell to hear about an alligator attack and cite Jeff Corbin and other wildlife experts who are saying what a rare an odd occurrence this is. They should not even attempt to make the argument that the family was in the wrong. They need to focus on the fact that it was a weird and rare thing that they could not possibly anticipate.

None of that really matters. it is a child and they were not warned. disney will be paying them. And yes, alligators DO kill people. who knew?
http://www.gameandfishmag.com/hunting/hunting_big-game-hunting_ra_0109_03/

Do oceanfront resorts alert everyone there are sharks in the water?

From the WaPo:

"Authorities did not release the names of the child or his parents, but said grief counselors and victim advocates sat with the family throughout the night. Their grief was incomprehensible, said sheriff’s office spokesman Jeff Williamson.

“They are very shaken up, extremely shaken up,” he told reporters. “Imagine if it were you? What would you be?”

Though alligator attacks are rare in Florida, this case — inside Disney World, involving a very young child — seemed to hit all involved especially hard. Williamson said many of the law enforcement officers on scene have children of their own and feel deeply empathetic for the boy’s parents, who witnessed the entire attack.

“It is tragic. It is heartbreaking. There’s not other way to say it,” he said. “I cannot come to grips with what it must have been like to be in that situation.”

Witnesses who were nearby when the alligator snatched the boy gave law enforcement “detailed” information about what happened, but at an earlier news conference, Demings did not recount specifically what they said.

One witness dialed 911 at 9:16 p.m., Demings said. The mother and father, who at different points both ran into the water after the child, shouted for the help of a nearby lifeguard.

“The parents diligently tried to get the child,” Demings said.

Demings said that, according to witnesses, the family had set up a baby pen about 20 to 30 yards from the water on the sand, reported CNN. With the parents and 2-year-old boy was a daughter, who is 4, the network reported. A witness told CNN that a movie was being screened on the beach Tuesday night.

There were no other people in the water at the time of the attack, according to authorities. Signs posted near the lake warn against swimming in it, but there were no signs warning of alligators. The sheriff said there had been no recent reports of any nuisance alligators in the area, but questions about their presence in the lake will be part of the ongoing investigation."

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just keep thinking about what the family is going through today.

How do you go on parenting your other child (children?) who are there, at Disney, probably wondering why they aren't at the park going on rides right now?

How do you wrap your head around what just happened to your sweet, toddling, two year-old? A f**king alligator just came up out of the water and killed your baby.

How do you fly x-many hours back to Nebraska with one less child?

How do you walk into your house and see your son's bedroom exactly how you left it before you went on your dream vacation only he isn't going to sleep there again?

I don't understand any of it. Heartbreaking.

Add to that:
Your story is on the front of countless news sites, Facebook, etc. You know people are judging you, you know you fought that gator for your child's life, pulled and pulled and...lost. Lost.

And you're in a different place, you have to find (good) lawyers. And you're meeting with Disney lawyers and/or your own because they want to meet today--to settle--you won the lottery when they present you with the number, but you.dont.want.it. You'd do anything -- give up the money-- live piss poor forever under a bridge if you could just have your baby back.

It's all terrible, but how are they going to get on that flight back to Nebraska this weekend -- or whenever they're scheduled to leave -- with one less baby?? That and walking into their house for the first time w/o their child -- I keep thinking about those 2 things. Though obviously every part of this is terrible.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What makes you guys think that different signs would have led to a different outcome?

Go to Yellowstone. There are a few signs saying "Don't feed the Bears!". Summer's early but I won't be surprised if Yogi munches a tourist who wanted to share a Twinkie. They warn about getting too close to Bison. I bet some dumbass gets stomped.

This was a horrible event. And I cannot begin to imagine what the parents are going through. But really, finger-pointing isn't helping. This isn't a case where mom and dad were sitting at a table getting sloshed and junior wandered off. By all appearances, dad was right there.

And Disney really isn't to blame either. Yes. Florida has gators. But in 50 years of no incidents, it is hard to fault Disney for inadequately protecting its visitors. This is not a fly by night operation the purpose of which is to fleece customers. Disney depends on longevity and a safe family place. Do you really think that they would risk their rep over a couple of signs? Do you think the state of Florida would have balked at gator control at Disney? Of course not!

This is simply a tragedy not really much different than if you were at Great Falls during rutting season and your two year old was gored by a stag.

It might not have led to a different outcome. But we will never know now will we? At least with a sign, the family has a chance. If something still happens, then its on them.

I think your comment gets to the core of what's bothering a lot of posters.

But its just not possible to protect your child from everything. Its what makes parenting so terrifying. That sometimes freak horrible things just happen and we're just praying we make it through life without it happening to us.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What makes you guys think that different signs would have led to a different outcome?

Go to Yellowstone. There are a few signs saying "Don't feed the Bears!". Summer's early but I won't be surprised if Yogi munches a tourist who wanted to share a Twinkie. They warn about getting too close to Bison. I bet some dumbass gets stomped.

This was a horrible event. And I cannot begin to imagine what the parents are going through. But really, finger-pointing isn't helping. This isn't a case where mom and dad were sitting at a table getting sloshed and junior wandered off. By all appearances, dad was right there.

And Disney really isn't to blame either. Yes. Florida has gators. But in 50 years of no incidents, it is hard to fault Disney for inadequately protecting its visitors. This is not a fly by night operation the purpose of which is to fleece customers. Disney depends on longevity and a safe family place. Do you really think that they would risk their rep over a couple of signs? Do you think the state of Florida would have balked at gator control at Disney? Of course not!

This is simply a tragedy not really much different than if you were at Great Falls during rutting season and your two year old was gored by a stag.

It might not have led to a different outcome. But we will never know now will we? At least with a sign, the family has a chance. If something still happens, then its on them.

There isn't always someone to point the finger at.