Anonymous wrote:What should Jim Bob and Michelle have done? Yes, protect their children but he is one of their children. Can you shun one child to protect five others? Do you love your child no matter what they do even if that means loving them even when they molest your other children?

There is no right decision here. No parent no matter what their beliefs can say what they would do when faced with one child molesting their other children. What do you do? That is never aomething you prepare for. Take away the family becoming famous, what would normal everyday people do?

There is no easy answer. The juvenile justice system is plagued and removing the remaining children from the home only to be placed in a foster care system plagued with it's own demons. Place them with family who raised and potentially abused their own parents or brother?

There is no answer here.

I agree.

Anonymous wrote:Cousin Amy has denied being the 5th victim, and indeed the rumors I read about this online years ago involved a girl from the Holt family.

Yes he was engaged to the Holt girl and her parents broke the engagement in light of this. This was on freejinger at the time he married Anna.

Cousin Amy has denied being the 5th victim, and indeed the rumors I read about this online years ago involved a girl from the Holt family.

His parents have 19 kids. You think he is going to be a normal guy?

There is a sealed CPS file. Who knows what's in it? We'll never find out.

The girls may have received some sort of counseling -- their church would have required them to forgive him, smile, and move on.

Only a handful of incidents of forcible fondling are described in the police report, taking place over the course of a year. This includes a 4 and 8 year old.

Ok someone help me to sum up what we essentially know-- at age 14, he groped/fondled several of his sisters, and maybe a cousin and a babysitter. Do we know how frequently or for how long this happened? Someone used the term sexual assault in this thread-- I don't know that this is an appropriate description. The parents had him talk to a family friend, who is a cop, who was later convicted of child porn charges (somewhat irrelevant to the parents' choice, given that they likely did not know about the friend's crimes). They sent him away to do labor for a period of time. At some point, because of some external reporting (??), they had to report it to police and allow all the girls to be interviewed. do we know if they got any family counseling for the girls? Do we know the extent or time horizon of the actions? Depending on the answers, my view of the situation would change. If he Touched people out of curiously a few times, the girls told, it was addressed and it stopped, I feel very different than if he did this for many years, was doing more than touching, and is now a danger to others. I'm honestly asking if we know.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What should Jim Bob and Michelle have done? Yes, protect their children but he is one of their children. Can you shun one child to protect five others? Do you love your child no matter what they do even if that means loving them even when they molest your other children?

There is no right decision here. No parent no matter what their beliefs can say what they would do when faced with one child molesting their other children. What do you do? That is never aomething you prepare for. Take away the family becoming famous, what would normal everyday people do?

There is no easy answer. The juvenile justice system is plagued and removing the remaining children from the home only to be placed in a foster care system plagued with it's own demons. Place them with family who raised and potentially abused their own parents or brother?

There is no answer here.

This is the heart of the matter, but you know Christians so they must be vilified within an inch of their lives, no matter the facts.

Please drop this idea that people are disgusted about this because the Duggars are Christians. Many of us criticizing them ARE Christians and our disgust has nothing to do with their faith. I know that I for one would be just as horrified that any other family of any other faith treated the situation as they did. The fact that the Duggars are people of Christian faith makes absolutely no difference to me.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am the PP who has been arguing about the victims' privacy rights over the last couple of pages. I just wanted to make i clear that I don't have any allegiance to the Duggars. I don't care for them, their parenting, their fame-whoring or their fundamentalist religious practices. You can support the rights of the victims without defending the choices of Josh, Michelle and Jim Bob.

I believe making this national news will have a negative effect on Josh Duggar's victims and on any other victims who will see this and decide not to take the risk of coming forward. This is about the fundamental aspects of violation that come with being a victim of sexual assault. Rape culture is a separate issue.

These victims never came forward, and never would have. But if the publicity convinces any of them, or other girls in their situation, that they are victims instead of to blame, then that's positive. As it is, they've been told for years that any sort of sexual molestation is both their fault and reduces their purity. And boys are told that seeing a girl or woman takes away any self-control they may have.

That's not how privacy works. You don't get to decide for them when to go public or how they should feel about it, or if it's for the greater good. Educate yourself, please.

The records were legitimately requested, and then were legitimately requested to be destroyed. Now we are discussing them. That's how the internet works.

It's how the internet works? Are you kidding me? These are real people who are being affected by this. It's not a video game, ffs.

Are you saying I should have no opinion on the Duggars, Josh, and the victims? Or I shouldn't post my opinions? Are you going to ask Jeff to take this thread down?

No, that's not what I'm saying. Feel free to read above about what I actually said. "It's how the internet works" is a cop out.

To be more clear, I meant that the now-destroyed police report is all over the internet.

The privacy of the victims is gone, but most mainstream media have tactfully refrained from saying who the victims are and what their relationship is to Josh Duggar. Which makes his crimes sound minimal, especially if the ages of the victims are left out of the discussion.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am the PP who has been arguing about the victims' privacy rights over the last couple of pages. I just wanted to make i clear that I don't have any allegiance to the Duggars. I don't care for them, their parenting, their fame-whoring or their fundamentalist religious practices. You can support the rights of the victims without defending the choices of Josh, Michelle and Jim Bob.

I believe making this national news will have a negative effect on Josh Duggar's victims and on any other victims who will see this and decide not to take the risk of coming forward. This is about the fundamental aspects of violation that come with being a victim of sexual assault. Rape culture is a separate issue.

These victims never came forward, and never would have. But if the publicity convinces any of them, or other girls in their situation, that they are victims instead of to blame, then that's positive. As it is, they've been told for years that any sort of sexual molestation is both their fault and reduces their purity. And boys are told that seeing a girl or woman takes away any self-control they may have.

That's not how privacy works. You don't get to decide for them when to go public or how they should feel about it, or if it's for the greater good. Educate yourself, please.

The records were legitimately requested, and then were legitimately requested to be destroyed. Now we are discussing them. That's how the internet works.

It's how the internet works? Are you kidding me? These are real people who are being affected by this. It's not a video game, ffs.

Are you saying I should have no opinion on the Duggars, Josh, and the victims? Or I shouldn't post my opinions? Are you going to ask Jeff to take this thread down?

No, that's not what I'm saying. Feel free to read above about what I actually said. "It's how the internet works" is a cop out.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What should Jim Bob and Michelle have done? Yes, protect their children but he is one of their children. Can you shun one child to protect five others? Do you love your child no matter what they do even if that means loving them even when they molest your other children?

There is no right decision here. No parent no matter what their beliefs can say what they would do when faced with one child molesting their other children. What do you do? That is never aomething you prepare for. Take away the family becoming famous, what would normal everyday people do?

There is no easy answer. The juvenile justice system is plagued and removing the remaining children from the home only to be placed in a foster care system plagued with it's own demons. Place them with family who raised and potentially abused their own parents or brother?

There is no answer here.

There totally is an answer. The answer is that they should have shut their f******* fundamentalist clapper that publicly advocates discrimination and backward legislation against people who don't conform to their Neanderthal world view and makes lots of $$$$ as the public face of a hate group, and done whatever they thought appropriate to heal their family and help their sick child (or not).

Sadly, I believe this would be considered what they thought was appropriate treatment. Hence the discussion on what is the way to handle this situation.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am the PP who has been arguing about the victims' privacy rights over the last couple of pages. I just wanted to make i clear that I don't have any allegiance to the Duggars. I don't care for them, their parenting, their fame-whoring or their fundamentalist religious practices. You can support the rights of the victims without defending the choices of Josh, Michelle and Jim Bob.

I believe making this national news will have a negative effect on Josh Duggar's victims and on any other victims who will see this and decide not to take the risk of coming forward. This is about the fundamental aspects of violation that come with being a victim of sexual assault. Rape culture is a separate issue.

These victims never came forward, and never would have. But if the publicity convinces any of them, or other girls in their situation, that they are victims instead of to blame, then that's positive. As it is, they've been told for years that any sort of sexual molestation is both their fault and reduces their purity. And boys are told that seeing a girl or woman takes away any self-control they may have.

That's not how privacy works. You don't get to decide for them when to go public or how they should feel about it, or if it's for the greater good. Educate yourself, please.

The records were legitimately requested, and then were legitimately requested to be destroyed. Now we are discussing them. That's how the internet works.

It's how the internet works? Are you kidding me? These are real people who are being affected by this. It's not a video game, ffs.

Are you saying I should have no opinion on the Duggars, Josh, and the victims? Or I shouldn't post my opinions? Are you going to ask Jeff to take this thread down?

Anonymous wrote:What should Jim Bob and Michelle have done? Yes, protect their children but he is one of their children. Can you shun one child to protect five others? Do you love your child no matter what they do even if that means loving them even when they molest your other children?

There is no right decision here. No parent no matter what their beliefs can say what they would do when faced with one child molesting their other children. What do you do? That is never aomething you prepare for. Take away the family becoming famous, what would normal everyday people do?

There is no easy answer. The juvenile justice system is plagued and removing the remaining children from the home only to be placed in a foster care system plagued with it's own demons. Place them with family who raised and potentially abused their own parents or brother?

There is no answer here.

There totally is an answer. The answer is that they should have shut their f******* fundamentalist clapper that publicly advocates discrimination and backward legislation against people who don't conform to their Neanderthal world view and makes lots of $$$$ as the public face of a hate group, and done whatever they thought appropriate to heal their family and help their sick child (or not).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am the PP who has been arguing about the victims' privacy rights over the last couple of pages. I just wanted to make i clear that I don't have any allegiance to the Duggars. I don't care for them, their parenting, their fame-whoring or their fundamentalist religious practices. You can support the rights of the victims without defending the choices of Josh, Michelle and Jim Bob.

I believe making this national news will have a negative effect on Josh Duggar's victims and on any other victims who will see this and decide not to take the risk of coming forward. This is about the fundamental aspects of violation that come with being a victim of sexual assault. Rape culture is a separate issue.

These victims never came forward, and never would have. But if the publicity convinces any of them, or other girls in their situation, that they are victims instead of to blame, then that's positive. As it is, they've been told for years that any sort of sexual molestation is both their fault and reduces their purity. And boys are told that seeing a girl or woman takes away any self-control they may have.

That's not how privacy works. You don't get to decide for them when to go public or how they should feel about it, or if it's for the greater good. Educate yourself, please.

The records were legitimately requested, and then were legitimately requested to be destroyed. Now we are discussing them. That's how the internet works.

It's how the internet works? Are you kidding me? These are real people who are being affected by this. It's not a video game, ffs.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What should Jim Bob and Michelle have done? Yes, protect their children but he is one of their children. Can you shun one child to protect five others? Do you love your child no matter what they do even if that means loving them even when they molest your other children?

There is no right decision here. No parent no matter what their beliefs can say what they would do when faced with one child molesting their other children. What do you do? That is never aomething you prepare for. Take away the family becoming famous, what would normal everyday people do?

There is no easy answer. The juvenile justice system is plagued and removing the remaining children from the home only to be placed in a foster care system plagued with it's own demons. Place them with family who raised and potentially abused their own parents or brother?

There is no answer here.

This is the heart of the matter, but you know Christians so they must be vilified within an inch of their lives, no matter the facts.

On some level, I do get that this situation would be hard for ANY family. Really, I don't know what I would do as a parent.

I do think that their isolation and extreme views may have contributed to the mess, in multiple ways.

But really, my issue isn't with them and their views -it is with knowing that they had this skeleton in their closet and moving on with pimping out their family for money.

I really think Christians need to be VERY careful using this story in their "Christians are so persecuted" storyline though. This is the WRONG story to hold up for that.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What should Jim Bob and Michelle have done? Yes, protect their children but he is one of their children. Can you shun one child to protect five others? Do you love your child no matter what they do even if that means loving them even when they molest your other children?

There is no right decision here. No parent no matter what their beliefs can say what they would do when faced with one child molesting their other children. What do you do? That is never aomething you prepare for. Take away the family becoming famous, what would normal everyday people do?

There is no easy answer. The juvenile justice system is plagued and removing the remaining children from the home only to be placed in a foster care system plagued with it's own demons. Place them with family who raised and potentially abused their own parents or brother?

There is no answer here.

This is the heart of the matter, but you know Christians so they must be vilified within an inch of their lives, no matter the facts.

Nice try at obscuring the conversation, but you're both deliberately ignoring the real issue here, which is that they are holier than thou hypocrites who vilify gay people in the name of protecting who knows what (children? ha ha) when they themselves harbored a child molester whom they did NOT send to therapy and hid the facts to protect their franchise.
But of course you think persecuting gay people or terrorizing women who have abortions is cool, so who cares, right?

That is not the real issue here. Part of making it in Hollywood is protecting your franchise. The real issue is how should the parents have dealt with the situation. The abuse is real, not part of a storyline. Respecting beliefs goes both ways, you can't expect the world to bow down to your beliefs simply because you disagree with the Duggar belief system. Look past wanting everyone to conform to your standards and you will see that they are doing the exact same thing you are ... Trying to make the world see things your way. So let's get back to the issue at hand, the molestation of children reaches far beyond your dislike of their beliefs and their dislike of yours.