Anonymous
06/30/2023 13:53
Subject: SCOTUS outlaws race as college admissions factor
Anonymous wrote:Read The NY Times today.
College admissions just got murkier rather than more transparent for everyone.
College admissions across the US are now committed more than ever to maintaining diversity. More weight will be given to subjective standards and less to objective ones such as grades and test scores. Whichever side you are on, this is not a good outcome
Oh stop it with the fear mongering. Can their standards get more subjective than making up an admission criteria for the purpose of rejecting a group of students?
Anonymous
06/30/2023 13:50
Subject: SCOTUS outlaws race as college admissions factor
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
Why don't you look to see who is leading top US tech firms like NVIDIA, AMD, Microsoft, and Adobe?
I told you how they took over the tech in the US. Once one Indian has a foot in the door, they will bring onboard their friends and cousins and then they only hire Indians, then they promote each other to top positions.
This is how it happened in Silicon Valley. Ask anyone who works there. They know.
Oh for crying out loud. Don't act like white people don't do this. Have you ever heard of the good old boys club? Look at most government contracting companies in the DMV and tell me the white male holding a C-level position didn't bring in their friends for other C-level or leadership positions. I.see.it.all.the.time.
You see, the truth is they don't see it when it's white people doing this. But if a racial group they don't belong to suddenly does it, OMG the world is ending! Though in all seriousness, no one should be doing this.
White people’s nepotism and cronyism is why we need civil rights laws and affirmative action goals in the first place. Universities are more meritorious than any other institutions in the country, because they take the time and effort to assess each individual applicant. Unlike the Supreme Court, which makes decisions according to “who is for, who is against, and which side funds me.”
Great, then do it in a way that doesn't discriminate against Asians like Harvard was doing. You want to do it by income? Go for it. But what Harvard was doing is unacceptable.
I still don't understand...Asians were not under-represented as compared to the general population at Harvard, so how are "they" being discriminated against? If Asians make up 12% of the population and have roughly 12% of the seats, then what is the complaint? I mean, Harvard turns away 98% of their applicants, and it is possible that the number of Asian rejections is higher because there may be more Asian applicants, but I still feel like this was not the right decision.
I suggest before anyone posts here, that you actually go read what Harvard was doing.
Anonymous
06/30/2023 13:50
Subject: SCOTUS outlaws race as college admissions factor
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
Why don't you look to see who is leading top US tech firms like NVIDIA, AMD, Microsoft, and Adobe?
I told you how they took over the tech in the US. Once one Indian has a foot in the door, they will bring onboard their friends and cousins and then they only hire Indians, then they promote each other to top positions.
This is how it happened in Silicon Valley. Ask anyone who works there. They know.
Oh for crying out loud. Don't act like white people don't do this. Have you ever heard of the good old boys club? Look at most government contracting companies in the DMV and tell me the white male holding a C-level position didn't bring in their friends for other C-level or leadership positions. I.see.it.all.the.time.
You see, the truth is they don't see it when it's white people doing this. But if a racial group they don't belong to suddenly does it, OMG the world is ending! Though in all seriousness, no one should be doing this.
White people’s nepotism and cronyism is why we need civil rights laws and affirmative action goals in the first place. Universities are more meritorious than any other institutions in the country, because they take the time and effort to assess each individual applicant. Unlike the Supreme Court, which makes decisions according to “who is for, who is against, and which side funds me.”
Great, then do it in a way that doesn't discriminate against Asians like Harvard was doing. You want to do it by income? Go for it. But what Harvard was doing is unacceptable.
DP Why is it wrong? Harvard is picking between applicants with extremely little difference in test scores, gpa, etc. Asians are at 30% of the class size and only 6% in the general population of the US. Harvard as a private institution should be free to select its class without government mandates.
Private totally? No federal grants? No students with federal loans?
Anonymous
06/30/2023 13:45
Subject: SCOTUS outlaws race as college admissions factor
I'm conflicted.
I'm white from an immigrant family, and when I went to college (early 2000s) I was rejected to some colleges that accepted minority classmates who had lower GPAs, lower SAT score, and came from much better-off families than mine. At the time, as a kid who worked all through high school and grew up on food stamps hustling every minute to make my life better, it hurt. 20 years later I'm okay with what happened because my disadvantages still pale in comparison to the inherent privilege society gives me because of my race.
Now I put myself into an Asian kid's shoes. A kid who works his butt off to have a perfect pre-college portfolio but then finds out, sorry, you're Asian and we need to admit more blacks/hispanics. How is that fair? Asians face racism and bigotry every day. Should an Asian kid who does everything "right" be held back because of his or her race? How is that not outright racism? To me, it is.
FWIW, I think a far better way to diversity campuses is based on socioeconomic status, which has a natural overlap with minority populations, but still helps give a leg up to the people who need it most. All things constant, I'm not sure the Obama girls should get the same race-based preference as a kid from Southeast.
I'm white from an immigrant family, and when I went to college (early 2000s) I was rejected to some colleges that accepted minority classmates who had lower GPAs, lower SAT score, and came from much better-off families than mine. At the time, as a kid who worked all through high school and grew up on food stamps hustling every minute to make my life better, it hurt. 20 years later I'm okay with what happened because my disadvantages still pale in comparison to the inherent privilege society gives me because of my race.
Now I put myself into an Asian kid's shoes. A kid who works his butt off to have a perfect pre-college portfolio but then finds out, sorry, you're Asian and we need to admit more blacks/hispanics. How is that fair? Asians face racism and bigotry every day. Should an Asian kid who does everything "right" be held back because of his or her race? How is that not outright racism? To me, it is.
FWIW, I think a far better way to diversity campuses is based on socioeconomic status, which has a natural overlap with minority populations, but still helps give a leg up to the people who need it most. All things constant, I'm not sure the Obama girls should get the same race-based preference as a kid from Southeast.
Anonymous
06/30/2023 13:45
Subject: SCOTUS outlaws race as college admissions factor
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
Why don't you look to see who is leading top US tech firms like NVIDIA, AMD, Microsoft, and Adobe?
I told you how they took over the tech in the US. Once one Indian has a foot in the door, they will bring onboard their friends and cousins and then they only hire Indians, then they promote each other to top positions.
This is how it happened in Silicon Valley. Ask anyone who works there. They know.
Oh for crying out loud. Don't act like white people don't do this. Have you ever heard of the good old boys club? Look at most government contracting companies in the DMV and tell me the white male holding a C-level position didn't bring in their friends for other C-level or leadership positions. I.see.it.all.the.time.
You see, the truth is they don't see it when it's white people doing this. But if a racial group they don't belong to suddenly does it, OMG the world is ending! Though in all seriousness, no one should be doing this.
White people’s nepotism and cronyism is why we need civil rights laws and affirmative action goals in the first place. Universities are more meritorious than any other institutions in the country, because they take the time and effort to assess each individual applicant. Unlike the Supreme Court, which makes decisions according to “who is for, who is against, and which side funds me.”
Great, then do it in a way that doesn't discriminate against Asians like Harvard was doing. You want to do it by income? Go for it. But what Harvard was doing is unacceptable.
I still don't understand...Asians were not under-represented as compared to the general population at Harvard, so how are "they" being discriminated against? If Asians make up 12% of the population and have roughly 12% of the seats, then what is the complaint? I mean, Harvard turns away 98% of their applicants, and it is possible that the number of Asian rejections is higher because there may be more Asian applicants, but I still feel like this was not the right decision.
Anonymous
06/30/2023 13:43
Subject: SCOTUS outlaws race as college admissions factor
Anonymous wrote:Read The NY Times today.
College admissions just got murkier rather than more transparent for everyone.
College admissions across the US are now committed more than ever to maintaining diversity. More weight will be given to subjective standards and less to objective ones such as grades and test scores. Whichever side you are on, this is not a good outcome
+1
I posted in the first couple of pages of this thread that the people rooting for a higher percentage of Asians at these schools are going to regret this decision. It will make it easier for schools to pick and choose who they want, and move even further away from actual merit, and more towards patronage and donations.
Anonymous
06/30/2023 13:15
Subject: SCOTUS outlaws race as college admissions factor
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
Why don't you look to see who is leading top US tech firms like NVIDIA, AMD, Microsoft, and Adobe?
I told you how they took over the tech in the US. Once one Indian has a foot in the door, they will bring onboard their friends and cousins and then they only hire Indians, then they promote each other to top positions.
This is how it happened in Silicon Valley. Ask anyone who works there. They know.
Oh for crying out loud. Don't act like white people don't do this. Have you ever heard of the good old boys club? Look at most government contracting companies in the DMV and tell me the white male holding a C-level position didn't bring in their friends for other C-level or leadership positions. I.see.it.all.the.time.
You see, the truth is they don't see it when it's white people doing this. But if a racial group they don't belong to suddenly does it, OMG the world is ending! Though in all seriousness, no one should be doing this.
White people’s nepotism and cronyism is why we need civil rights laws and affirmative action goals in the first place. Universities are more meritorious than any other institutions in the country, because they take the time and effort to assess each individual applicant. Unlike the Supreme Court, which makes decisions according to “who is for, who is against, and which side funds me.”
Great, then do it in a way that doesn't discriminate against Asians like Harvard was doing. You want to do it by income? Go for it. But what Harvard was doing is unacceptable.
DP Why is it wrong? Harvard is picking between applicants with extremely little difference in test scores, gpa, etc. Asians are at 30% of the class size and only 6% in the general population of the US. Harvard as a private institution should be free to select its class without government mandates.
Anonymous
06/30/2023 13:05
Subject: SCOTUS outlaws race as college admissions factor
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
Why don't you look to see who is leading top US tech firms like NVIDIA, AMD, Microsoft, and Adobe?
I told you how they took over the tech in the US. Once one Indian has a foot in the door, they will bring onboard their friends and cousins and then they only hire Indians, then they promote each other to top positions.
This is how it happened in Silicon Valley. Ask anyone who works there. They know.
Oh for crying out loud. Don't act like white people don't do this. Have you ever heard of the good old boys club? Look at most government contracting companies in the DMV and tell me the white male holding a C-level position didn't bring in their friends for other C-level or leadership positions. I.see.it.all.the.time.
You see, the truth is they don't see it when it's white people doing this. But if a racial group they don't belong to suddenly does it, OMG the world is ending! Though in all seriousness, no one should be doing this.
White people’s nepotism and cronyism is why we need civil rights laws and affirmative action goals in the first place. Universities are more meritorious than any other institutions in the country, because they take the time and effort to assess each individual applicant. Unlike the Supreme Court, which makes decisions according to “who is for, who is against, and which side funds me.”
Great, then do it in a way that doesn't discriminate against Asians like Harvard was doing. You want to do it by income? Go for it. But what Harvard was doing is unacceptable.
Anonymous
06/30/2023 13:04
Subject: SCOTUS outlaws race as college admissions factor
Read The NY Times today.
College admissions just got murkier rather than more transparent for everyone.
College admissions across the US are now committed more than ever to maintaining diversity. More weight will be given to subjective standards and less to objective ones such as grades and test scores. Whichever side you are on, this is not a good outcome
College admissions just got murkier rather than more transparent for everyone.
College admissions across the US are now committed more than ever to maintaining diversity. More weight will be given to subjective standards and less to objective ones such as grades and test scores. Whichever side you are on, this is not a good outcome
Anonymous
06/30/2023 12:51
Subject: SCOTUS outlaws race as college admissions factor
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
Why don't you look to see who is leading top US tech firms like NVIDIA, AMD, Microsoft, and Adobe?
I told you how they took over the tech in the US. Once one Indian has a foot in the door, they will bring onboard their friends and cousins and then they only hire Indians, then they promote each other to top positions.
This is how it happened in Silicon Valley. Ask anyone who works there. They know.
Oh for crying out loud. Don't act like white people don't do this. Have you ever heard of the good old boys club? Look at most government contracting companies in the DMV and tell me the white male holding a C-level position didn't bring in their friends for other C-level or leadership positions. I.see.it.all.the.time.
You see, the truth is they don't see it when it's white people doing this. But if a racial group they don't belong to suddenly does it, OMG the world is ending! Though in all seriousness, no one should be doing this.
White people’s nepotism and cronyism is why we need civil rights laws and affirmative action goals in the first place. Universities are more meritorious than any other institutions in the country, because they take the time and effort to assess each individual applicant. Unlike the Supreme Court, which makes decisions according to “who is for, who is against, and which side funds me.”
Anonymous
06/30/2023 12:44
Subject: SCOTUS outlaws race as college admissions factor
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
Nobody wants to go to a college where half of the students are under intense parental pressure to get into Harvard Med School or be shunned by the family.
Nobody wants to be around kids who consider a B on a test a major failure and obsess about their grades and don’t have a life outside studying for next test, who have zero control over their lives and are under strict control by their parents who choose every activity and every friend for them. Nobody.
You want to turn Harvard into little India the way you turned TJ into tiger mom central? Well, they are not going to let you ruin the school.
NP
Wow…just…wow…you aren’t even trying to hide the racism. Why don’t you switch up your ethnicities/stereotypes and see how that sounds? And I’m sure you consider yourself one of the “good guys,” eh?
Anonymous
06/30/2023 12:29
Subject: SCOTUS outlaws race as college admissions factor
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
Nobody wants to go to a college where half of the students are under intense parental pressure to get into Harvard Med School or be shunned by the family.
Nobody wants to be around kids who consider a B on a test a major failure and obsess about their grades and don’t have a life outside studying for next test, who have zero control over their lives and are under strict control by their parents who choose every activity and every friend for them. Nobody.
You want to turn Harvard into little India the way you turned TJ into tiger mom central? Well, they are not going to let you ruin the school.
Ok, then avoid colleges with lots of Asians for all the faults you've imagined them to have. Be my guest. I don't want to go to college with people who assign racial stereotypes to a large groups of people instead of seeing them as individuals, so I guess we can agree that we shouldn't be in the same college together.
Anonymous
06/30/2023 12:24
Subject: SCOTUS outlaws race as college admissions factor
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
Why don't you look to see who is leading top US tech firms like NVIDIA, AMD, Microsoft, and Adobe?
I told you how they took over the tech in the US. Once one Indian has a foot in the door, they will bring onboard their friends and cousins and then they only hire Indians, then they promote each other to top positions.
This is how it happened in Silicon Valley. Ask anyone who works there. They know.
Oh for crying out loud. Don't act like white people don't do this. Have you ever heard of the good old boys club? Look at most government contracting companies in the DMV and tell me the white male holding a C-level position didn't bring in their friends for other C-level or leadership positions. I.see.it.all.the.time.
You see, the truth is they don't see it when it's white people doing this. But if a racial group they don't belong to suddenly does it, OMG the world is ending! Though in all seriousness, no one should be doing this.
Anonymous
06/30/2023 12:21
Subject: SCOTUS outlaws race as college admissions factor
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
So you would expect matriculation rates at roughly these levels and yet, they aren't. The matriculation still over samples white students and under samples blacks and Asians.
Harvard is a bad example to base these type of things on. It’s a very small number of the total number of college students. Many top students do not even apply.
So 61,221 apply and 1,984 are admitted. 95% of those accepted have at a minimum 1540 sat, 35 act and 4.12 gpa. Over 1/2 of the applicants meet these numbers. This applicant pool is not representative of the US population- ie a higher percentage of whites and Asian; lower number blacks vs the general population. This exaggerates the statistics.
Looking at class make up Harvard
Black 15% in class/12% US population
Hispanic 12%/19%
Asian 28%/6%
So slightly over with blacks, sizable deficit with Hispanic(actually bigger given average age of Hispanic population vs US population) and Asian way way over represented.
Being admitted to Harvard is winning the lottery. No matter how you break down the admissions by race they will still turn away very qualified applicants. Harvard has a special program(Dean’s Interest List) for big donors who are admitted with much much lower scores. No one talks about it.
Harvard is private, does not have many students and should be able to do what they want in terms of admissions. Now the public colleges and universities is where this ruling will a large impact on continuing the historic economically disparities between the races.
Asians posting here think all other groups aren’t worthy as they’re the superior race. They won’t be happy until every Asian who applies is admitted because all other students are admitted because they’re legacies or AA applicants. This is clear from the posts here.
What? no one's doing that. Working hard, staying out of trouble, not cheating/being unethical are all very positive attributes. Lots of loud mouth teens go on to accomplish very little in life - why? because they don't work hard at things, they're just loud and pushy, no substance.
And thank goodness we all hide the Jewish white people from non-Jewish white people.
20% of admits vs 3% of total population. same for lucrative career paths too.
The dark side to the Asian cultural model of prioritizing academic and professional achievement ahead of everything else is the high rates of suicide in Asian young people here and abroad. I have a high performing white child, but I have always straight that they are not their grades/SAT score/salary. There has to be some balance. Life is stressful enough.
Asian American young adults are the only racial group with suicide as their leading cause of death, so why is no one talking about this?
https://theconversation.com/asian-american-young-adults-are-the-only-racial-group-with-suicide-as-their-leading-cause-of-death-so-why-is-no-one-talking-about-this-158030
Youth suicide: Asian teens crack down under growing family pressure
https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/Asia-Insight/Youth-suicide-Asian-teens-crack-under-growing-family-pressure
Maybe this is shocking, but the dark side of Asia tiger parenting is not unknown to Asians! The question is, how is any of this relevant to the question at hand? No one is telling Harvard they cannot seek a well rounded applicant or prioritize x,y,z over standardized tests/academics. They just cannot discriminate based on race. The end.
Anonymous