Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I largely agree with this. There is not an overall increase in bus ridership. Dominion Hills and Madison Manor are in denial about how close Kenmore is. Yes- if this proposal goes through, or something like it, parts of Dominion Hills will have a longer walk to Kenmore as compared to their shorter walk to Swanson. Yes- parts of Madison Manor will be bused to Kenmore instead of a longish walk to Swanson.
But the proposal as a whole has less busing then is currently occurring- look at the statistics APS has put out about this. So it is simply false to say that we are breaking up neighborhood schools and busing across town- what have you.

It isn't just "a longer walk". I just typed my address into Google Maps. If my kids walk from our house to the front door of Swanson it's a 9min .5mi walk. It's .4mi if they go to the side entrance.

The walk to Kenmore is along the W&OD and Four Mile Run Trail, is 1.5mi, and 31min. More than three times as long. And it's along a trail that isn't exactly known as safe in the dark. Would you let your 11yr old girl walk that alone in the dark? I'm guessing not, so no, we aren't in denial. We are very much aware of the impact of such a move.

I’m very comfortable with that impact.

Anonymous wrote:As a parent of two kids in North Arlington who may be affected by this, I cannot think of worse news than “your kids are being bussed to Kenmore.” We will leave if that happens.

As a parent of a North Arlington child who is a voluntary transfer to Kenmore from Williamsburg, I think you are completely nuts. Class sizes are small, there are enough seats in the lunch room, and I heard multiple times this year at BTS night how the 6th grade class is so nice / kind / caring to one another. My child is doing well academically and the block scheduling has been a nice way to adjust to middle school. The tide is shifting.

All kids need a safe walk to school if bus service isn’t provided, regardless of distance. If anyone sees that their child’s potential walk would be unsafe, that needs to raised (loudly) with the school board.

Anonymous wrote:What I dont understand if why is their this sudden push to make sure all of the schools have the same number of poors? Arlington has always had concentrated pockets of FARMS and it is thriving. Why are our elected officials shoving this down our throats. These officials work for us and our kids shouldnt be condemned to a poor education so that some local official can sleep better at night.

So is all of Arlington thriving, or are some condemned to a poor educations? Which is it?

Anonymous wrote:

Put another way, people are saying its OK with them that kids two miles away go to schools where more than 50% of the kids are in poverty, as long as their kids get to sleep 30 minutes later each morning.

I’m just going to leave this here:

The straw man fallacy involves misrepresenting an opponent’s position to make it easier to refute. Straw man arguments often oversimplify opposing views or disregard inconvenient points in favor of points that are easy to argue against.

I'd argue that those likening the current proposals to "busing" are doing the same.

Unless you're putting forward another proposal that doesn't result in Kenmore going over 50% fr/l, the (possibly unintended) consequence of arguing strictly for proximity and arguing against the specific blended diversity option APS put forward could be Kenmore's fr/l rate increasing to over 50% (not to mention Jefferson and Gunston's rates going up, too). I also have to infer that you believe Kenmore is already too high in terms of fr/l, so what's another 7% point bump up? It's a lost cause in your mind, so it doens't matter if it's 45% fr/l or 100%. Increasing the fr/l rate may not be the reason that you're fighting being moved, but it will be the result. At the very least you accept the outcome of a susbstantially higher fr/l rate at Kenmore as the price of your children getting more sleep/keeping your "neighborhood" intact, walkabililty, or whatever.

I'm sure not every Trump voter was an outright bigot. However, they ignored all of his race baiting and unseemly personal and campaign relationships, not to mention his vast faults and shortcomings as a candidate, in order to get that ACA repeal/tax cut/supreme court nominee. I don't think they are all racists, but they certainly enabled and emboldened those who are racists in order to achieve their other goal(s).

In summary, intentions matter far less than outcomes.

Anonymous wrote:I largely agree with this. There is not an overall increase in bus ridership. Dominion Hills and Madison Manor are in denial about how close Kenmore is. Yes- if this proposal goes through, or something like it, parts of Dominion Hills will have a longer walk to Kenmore as compared to their shorter walk to Swanson. Yes- parts of Madison Manor will be bused to Kenmore instead of a longish walk to Swanson.
But the proposal as a whole has less busing then is currently occurring- look at the statistics APS has put out about this. So it is simply false to say that we are breaking up neighborhood schools and busing across town- what have you.

It isn't just "a longer walk". I just typed my address into Google Maps. If my kids walk from our house to the front door of Swanson it's a 9min .5mi walk. It's .4mi if they go to the side entrance.

The walk to Kenmore is along the W&OD and Four Mile Run Trail, is 1.5mi, and 31min. More than three times as long. And it's along a trail that isn't exactly known as safe in the dark. Would you let your 11yr old girl walk that alone in the dark? I'm guessing not, so no, we aren't in denial. We are very much aware of the impact of such a move.

What I dont understand if why is their this sudden push to make sure all of the schools have the same number of poors? Arlington has always had concentrated pockets of FARMS and it is thriving. Why are our elected officials shoving this down our throats. These officials work for us and our kids shouldnt be condemned to a poor education so that some local official can sleep better at night.

My kids are still little so no personal experience yet, but we live in Bon Air and many of our neighbors with older kids seem very happy with Kenmore MS. I'm surprised to hear so many complaints about it on here. What's the deal? Do the people complaining about it even have kids there?

As a parent of two kids in North Arlington who may be affected by this, I cannot think of worse news than “your kids are being bussed to Kenmore.” We will leave if that happens.

Anonymous wrote:There aren't any proposals, at least not yet, that increase busing. That's pure hyperbole, as was the outcry against a 4th HS.

You don't want to be rezoned to Kenmore, we get it. You're not willing to give up some convenience for a "lesser" school. You paid good money for your "better" school, and why shouldn't you get to keep it?

But you realize, if they do build a HS at Kenmore at some future point, the likely boundary would look an awful lot like the proposed diversity/proximity blended Kenmore MS option boundary, except maybe extended further N to pull in more kids? They can't draw the boundary further S, because then you're on Wakefield's property. So if being zoned to a diverse school in S Arlington makes you break out in a sweat, I suggest you think long and hard. One day, all the kids in your PU could be zoned to a HS on the Kenmore property. If that's a deal-breaker, you should probably just move now. Or join the anti-4th HS chorus and deal with shift schedules, mega schools bursting at the seams, and option schools that won't be in your neighborhood either.

I'm the PP and was actually a very vocal supporter of a 4th comprehensive HS at Kenmore. We are equidistant between Yorktown and W-L, and Kenmore, and there were many ways to get 4 comprehensive high schools well-balanced in both size and diversity. We are a 6 or 7min walk from Swanson. Upthread someone made the very good point that when you get upwards of 40% FARMS the academic success of all kids is impacted, and the insertion of a certain percentage of higher SES kids isn't enough to offset. So yes, if you are going to pull my kid from a high performing school less than 1/2mi from our house, to a school that is at or near that tipping point I have a huge issue with it.

If the community truly cares about diversity and wants to ensure that all schools are equally good (as the SB will already claim they are), then let's bus like crazy. Take kids from CC Hills and ship them to Jefferson. Take kids from the western edge of the Pike and ship them to Williamsburg. Make islands everywhere so that we get all the schools under 40% FARMS. Let's be clear, that isn't going to happen so don't kid yourself that as a whole Arlington is really committed to diversity. I'm going to fight like hell to keep my kids' education from being negatively impacted by the bad social policies and urban planning of Arlington County.

Seems like the new school will have decent boundaries, kind of like W-L, but that it will take a concerted effort not to end up with (1) middle schools in South Arlington that are even worse than Kenmore today (Jefferson in particular will see its FARMS go up substantially); and (2) a Williamsburg that isn't prone to even more severe affluenza problems than Williamsburg and Yorktown already have today.

The people who are complaining the most are the ones who have managed through hard work to buy a house away from SA low performing schools, but who fell a little short of being able to buy North enough in Arlington to completely escape FARMS. These families feel like they had gotten over the wall but the SB is trying to drag them back down. I understand. I would be livid if this was happening to my children- sacrificed so that the SB can feel better about itself.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Good start, but I see 40pgs of people suggesting that we should all want diversity at any cost. I certainly hope all those families from Wburg and Stratford are offering to send their kids to S Arl middle schools even without the immersion program.

No, just at the cost of busing some kids. Which we already do for families near ATS and ASFS (and I would argue walkable ESs are more important than walkable MS because parents need to be able to get to ES much more frequently and because the older you are, the more important it is that you get out of your bubble)

This is not an insignificant cost, on multiple levels. First, the actual economic costs of more buses, more drivers, more bus storage. All of which are in short supply already. Second is the cost to the kids and families of breaking apart neighborhood schools. I've posted multiple times that my family is less than a 10min walk on safe, surface streets to Swanson. Common sense says that busing my kids to Kenmore, while bringing buses of kids past our house to Swanson makes no sense. Third are the costs to our children in terms of lost sleep. There are already studies about the insufficient sleep our kids are getting, why put even more kids on buses than absolutely necessary? It also will have a cost on commutes and traffic, since lots of parents will start driving their kids rather than having them catch a pre-dawn bus, and all that traffic was the outcry against a 4th HS at Kenmore.

There are lots of costs, making those options particularly bad.

There aren't any proposals, at least not yet, that increase busing. That's pure hyperbole, as was the outcry against a 4th HS.

You don't want to be rezoned to Kenmore, we get it. You're not willing to give up some convenience for a "lesser" school. You paid good money for your "better" school, and why shouldn't you get to keep it?

But you realize, if they do build a HS at Kenmore at some future point, the likely boundary would look an awful lot like the proposed diversity/proximity blended Kenmore MS option boundary, except maybe extended further N to pull in more kids? They can't draw the boundary further S, because then you're on Wakefield's property. So if being zoned to a diverse school in S Arlington makes you break out in a sweat, I suggest you think long and hard. One day, all the kids in your PU could be zoned to a HS on the Kenmore property. If that's a deal-breaker, you should probably just move now. Or join the anti-4th HS chorus and deal with shift schedules, mega schools bursting at the seams, and option schools that won't be in your neighborhood either.

I largely agree with this. There is not an overall increase in bus ridership. Dominion Hills and Madison Manor are in denial about how close Kenmore is. Yes- if this proposal goes through, or something like it, parts of Dominion Hills will have a longer walk to Kenmore as compared to their shorter walk to Swanson. Yes- parts of Madison Manor will be bused to Kenmore instead of a longish walk to Swanson.
But the proposal as a whole has less busing then is currently occurring- look at the statistics APS has put out about this. So it is simply false to say that we are breaking up neighborhood schools and busing across town- what have you.

Put another way, people are saying its OK with them that kids two miles away go to schools where more than 50% of the kids are in poverty, as long as their kids get to sleep 30 minutes later each morning.

I’m just going to leave this here:

The straw man fallacy involves misrepresenting an opponent’s position to make it easier to refute. Straw man arguments often oversimplify opposing views or disregard inconvenient points in favor of points that are easy to argue against.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Good start, but I see 40pgs of people suggesting that we should all want diversity at any cost. I certainly hope all those families from Wburg and Stratford are offering to send their kids to S Arl middle schools even without the immersion program.

No, just at the cost of busing some kids. Which we already do for families near ATS and ASFS (and I would argue walkable ESs are more important than walkable MS because parents need to be able to get to ES much more frequently and because the older you are, the more important it is that you get out of your bubble)

This is not an insignificant cost, on multiple levels. First, the actual economic costs of more buses, more drivers, more bus storage. All of which are in short supply already. Second is the cost to the kids and families of breaking apart neighborhood schools. I've posted multiple times that my family is less than a 10min walk on safe, surface streets to Swanson. Common sense says that busing my kids to Kenmore, while bringing buses of kids past our house to Swanson makes no sense. Third are the costs to our children in terms of lost sleep. There are already studies about the insufficient sleep our kids are getting, why put even more kids on buses than absolutely necessary? It also will have a cost on commutes and traffic, since lots of parents will start driving their kids rather than having them catch a pre-dawn bus, and all that traffic was the outcry against a 4th HS at Kenmore.

There are lots of costs, making those options particularly bad.

There aren't any proposals, at least not yet, that increase busing. That's pure hyperbole, as was the outcry against a 4th HS.

You don't want to be rezoned to Kenmore, we get it. You're not willing to give up some convenience for a "lesser" school. You paid good money for your "better" school, and why shouldn't you get to keep it?

But you realize, if they do build a HS at Kenmore at some future point, the likely boundary would look an awful lot like the proposed diversity/proximity blended Kenmore MS option boundary, except maybe extended further N to pull in more kids? They can't draw the boundary further S, because then you're on Wakefield's property. So if being zoned to a diverse school in S Arlington makes you break out in a sweat, I suggest you think long and hard. One day, all the kids in your PU could be zoned to a HS on the Kenmore property. If that's a deal-breaker, you should probably just move now. Or join the anti-4th HS chorus and deal with shift schedules, mega schools bursting at the seams, and option schools that won't be in your neighborhood either.