Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, Disney will be held liable. Although there are alligators in Florida, Disney has set up that beach as a place to hang out for young children. Children will put their feet in water. the alligator is completely able to come up on the shore and snack a child. There are no signs that say Danger: alligators. Once it gets in front of a jury -- right or wrong -- they will go crazy with an award. Disney will settle out of court. Disney would look heartless in the media and besides very unsafe. Also it could easily be argued that they knew that alligators could and would go into those lake and that it was their responsibility to keep the alligators removed by whatever means. That will be very difficult, but still it will be the argument. The shorelines of Disney may change forever over this.

If I were a lawyer for Disney, I'd be telling people up and down that the "No swimming" policy is because there is no life guard on duty/drowning risk. I'd act surprised as hell to hear about an alligator attack and cite Jeff Corbin and other wildlife experts who are saying what a rare an odd occurrence this is. They should not even attempt to make the argument that the family was in the wrong. They need to focus on the fact that it was a weird and rare thing that they could not possibly anticipate.

None of that really matters. it is a child and they were not warned. disney will be paying them. And yes, alligators DO kill people. who knew?
http://www.gameandfishmag.com/hunting/hunting_big-game-hunting_ra_0109_03/

Anonymous wrote:It's horrible and tragic. But it was a freak accident. There are alligators everywhere in Florida. People are rarely attacked. People who live here know how to avoid them. We jump off of our sailboat into the St Johns River all the time. We don't do it near the shore in shallow warm water. We kayak in water full of gators. They don't leap out of the water and snatch people off of jet skis or boats. They are not fast on land, but they are super fast in water. A gator attacks by lunging at prey from the water or shore. They don't chase people around on land.

We have had several shark attacks at our beach already. I was bumped by a four foot shark two weeks ago in less than two feet of water. My point is that it was an awful, tragic, accident. An extremely rare type of thing. Why does anyone need to be at fault? The gator was just being a gator. The parents were watching their child. Disney cannot keep alligators out of fresh water in Florida. No one talks of lawsuits when snakes bite or when sharks attack. How is this different?

You are far too rational for this site my friend.

Anonymous wrote:I just keep thinking about what the family is going through today.

How do you go on parenting your other child (children?) who are there, at Disney, probably wondering why they aren't at the park going on rides right now?

How do you wrap your head around what just happened to your sweet, toddling, two year-old? A f**king alligator just came up out of the water and killed your baby.

How do you fly x-many hours back to Nebraska with one less child?

How do you walk into your house and see your son's bedroom exactly how you left it before you went on your dream vacation only he isn't going to sleep there again?

I don't understand any of it. Heartbreaking.

Add to that:
Your story is on the front of countless news sites, Facebook, etc. You know people are judging you, you know you fought that gator for your child's life, pulled and pulled and...lost. Lost.

And you're in a different place, you have to find (good) lawyers. And you're meeting with Disney lawyers and/or your own because they want to meet today--to settle--you won the lottery when they present you with the number, but you.dont.want.it. You'd do anything -- give up the money-- live piss poor forever under a bridge if you could just have your baby back.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What makes you guys think that different signs would have led to a different outcome?

Go to Yellowstone. There are a few signs saying "Don't feed the Bears!". Summer's early but I won't be surprised if Yogi munches a tourist who wanted to share a Twinkie. They warn about getting too close to Bison. I bet some dumbass gets stomped.

This was a horrible event. And I cannot begin to imagine what the parents are going through. But really, finger-pointing isn't helping. This isn't a case where mom and dad were sitting at a table getting sloshed and junior wandered off. By all appearances, dad was right there.

And Disney really isn't to blame either. Yes. Florida has gators. But in 50 years of no incidents, it is hard to fault Disney for inadequately protecting its visitors. This is not a fly by night operation the purpose of which is to fleece customers. Disney depends on longevity and a safe family place. Do you really think that they would risk their rep over a couple of signs? Do you think the state of Florida would have balked at gator control at Disney? Of course not!

This is simply a tragedy not really much different than if you were at Great Falls during rutting season and your two year old was gored by a stag.

It might not have led to a different outcome. But we will never know now will we? At least with a sign, the family has a chance. If something still happens, then its on them.

Or it's still a freak accident.

Anonymous wrote:What makes you guys think that different signs would have led to a different outcome?

Go to Yellowstone. There are a few signs saying "Don't feed the Bears!". Summer's early but I won't be surprised if Yogi munches a tourist who wanted to share a Twinkie. They warn about getting too close to Bison. I bet some dumbass gets stomped.

This was a horrible event. And I cannot begin to imagine what the parents are going through. But really, finger-pointing isn't helping. This isn't a case where mom and dad were sitting at a table getting sloshed and junior wandered off. By all appearances, dad was right there.

And Disney really isn't to blame either. Yes. Florida has gators. But in 50 years of no incidents, it is hard to fault Disney for inadequately protecting its visitors. This is not a fly by night operation the purpose of which is to fleece customers. Disney depends on longevity and a safe family place. Do you really think that they would risk their rep over a couple of signs? Do you think the state of Florida would have balked at gator control at Disney? Of course not!

This is simply a tragedy not really much different than if you were at Great Falls during rutting season and your two year old was gored by a stag.

It might not have led to a different outcome. But we will never know now will we? At least with a sign, the family has a chance. If something still happens, then its on them.

I can guarantee you Disney will be posting new alligator warning signs. Wtf does that tell you. How stupid could they be to let customers who have no idea about the dangers of alligators have their small children on a manicured beach so close to an lake infested with gators!

Having the sign say "steep drop - no swimming" or whatever makes it seem like the danger associated is with falling or something. There's no way people from other areas are going to be aware of an alligator attack, as evidenced by what just happened.

Anonymous wrote:Orlando here. I have a pond near my home with 5 baby alligators. They're everywhere. Hilton head has alligator signs literally everywhere and Disney has none.

This is totally not true. All of the 'beaches' on Disney property warn walks not to swim in the water.

What makes you guys think that different signs would have led to a different outcome?

Go to Yellowstone. There are a few signs saying "Don't feed the Bears!". Summer's early but I won't be surprised if Yogi munches a tourist who wanted to share a Twinkie. They warn about getting too close to Bison. I bet some dumbass gets stomped.

This was a horrible event. And I cannot begin to imagine what the parents are going through. But really, finger-pointing isn't helping. This isn't a case where mom and dad were sitting at a table getting sloshed and junior wandered off. By all appearances, dad was right there.

And Disney really isn't to blame either. Yes. Florida has gators. But in 50 years of no incidents, it is hard to fault Disney for inadequately protecting its visitors. This is not a fly by night operation the purpose of which is to fleece customers. Disney depends on longevity and a safe family place. Do you really think that they would risk their rep over a couple of signs? Do you think the state of Florida would have balked at gator control at Disney? Of course not!

This is simply a tragedy not really much different than if you were at Great Falls during rutting season and your two year old was gored by a stag.

Anonymous wrote:

Do you go out in the woods and not think about bears or mountain lions? I just don't understand this.

This was a freak accident. I know its hard to accept but no one is 100% safe 100% of the time. Sometimes when you're outside a wild animal shows up. Sometimes when you're inside a dresser falls on top of you. It's just life. It's sad and horrible but it's just life.

NP here. I have spent much of my life hiking and backpacking in the wilderness in areas where both bears and mountain lions are quite active. There are many, many, many people who don't think about these things when they enter the wilderness...and even those who do don't always know what the proper precautions are to take. I've had to tell people about simple precautions all the time.

In the same way that our National Parks tell visitors about wild animal safety, I think that if Disney is going to encourage people to hang out very close to an open body of water they should warn visitors about common sense precautions. I've been to FL many, many times, and I didn't realize just standing within a couple feet of a body of water could be an alligator risk (I know about swimming). I haven't been to the Seven Seas Lagoon, so I don't know whether it's obvious that it's connected to a larger body of water or if it seems like it could be an enclosed pool. But I still think Disney could have warned people.

Beyond that, freak accidents happen all the time, and I suspect that's what this was. Disney is pretty good at PR (understatement of the world), so they will quietly offer the family a large settlement...they will likely also find some Disney-esque way of warning visitors about alligator dangers in the future.

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Anonymous wrote:1. A "no swimming" sign is not sufficient to cover the risks associated with alligator attacks. That child could have been killed simply walking near the edge of the water.

2. It's not reasonable to expect resort guests coming from Europe, Canada, or yes even Nebraska to know how prevelant alligators are, especially on Disney property where a beach has been set up.

3. Disney was grossly negligent and WILL pay up the a$$ including to this who just witnessed the attack. That's guaranteed.

I disagree. And, I would also say that anyone who doesn't know that Florida has alligators is an imbecile. It's practically the first thing you think of!

Here's the thing - even if you know "Florida has alligators" you may not be familiar with alligator behavior. If a sign says "no swimming", and you make the logic leap that you should not swim due to alligators, you might think your kid is safe WALKING IN LESS THAN A FOOT OF WATER, because that is not swimming. Maybe you think alligators are like sharks - and someone might not swim on account of a shark in the water, but they'd probably walk along the beach and not fear a shark attack. Signage was inadequate and inappropriate to the threat.

I'm really trying to understand this mindset. Alligators are a pretty popular animal. Even if you don't know everything about their behavior, I would argue that the basic stuff is known to ADULTS. I'm really trying to understand this idea that alligators are some weird and mysterious animal.

How familiar do you expect Nebraskans to be with alligator behavior? I had no idea alligators were this aggressive. I thought they mostly left people alone.

Ugh, as much as a Virginian knows to be worried about scorpions? I know that if I'm in the SE, to check my shoes and clothing, even though I've never seen a scorpion. But it is basic common sense.

Is your only experience with crocs is a cuddly stuffed animal? How does someone make it to adulthood not knowing these basic things?

Yes, I in fact have no real-life experience with alligators or crocodiles. Is that crazy to you? There are NO ALLIGATORS WHERE I'M FROM. What you describe is not "common sense" or "basic things", it is specialized knowledge that lots of people do not have.

If there was a sign warning of alligators, that would be one thing. But assuming that people from all over the world know that (1) ALL fresh water in Florida is infested with alligators; (2) alligators will seek out and grab a child even if it is not in the water; and (3) "no swimming" means "don't even go near the water because alligators will eat your kids" is seriously ridiculous.

Do you go out in the woods and not think about bears or mountain lions? I just don't understand this.

This was a freak accident. I know its hard to accept but no one is 100% safe 100% of the time. Sometimes when you're outside a wild animal shows up. Sometimes when you're inside a dresser falls on top of you. It's just life. It's sad and horrible but it's just life.

This would work if the family was in the wild. They were staying at a private resort, with no noted expectation or warnings of gators being present anywhere on the facility. So whats your point?

I was just there. If you look out at the area, it's pretty wildlife-looking. Growing up in Florida, when a sign says "No Swimming, dropoff" it means you stay out of the water.

Especially at night I would have stayed out of the water. And there's a beautiful pool just steps away. All the beach chairs there face the pool, not the beach.

That lake is used for water sports, but not swimming, and has been for decades with no issue. Just like other lakes in Florida, where people swim, boat, etc.

Have you ever been waterskiing or tubing? It requires swimming. You have to jump off the boat, get into position. You might fall several times trying to get up on skis, you'll probably fall off the tube at some point.

There's no appreciable distinction between "water sports" and "swimming."

How smart is it do water sports in gator infested waters?

Not my choice, but statistically speaking, the gators are not dangerous.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Re: the discussion of possible lawsuits -- I'm curious whether surrounding resorts and attractions post alligator warnings? If it is standard practice, it's going to look bad on Disney.

Also, surrounding bystanders could claim emotional distress. I think it's reasonable to suffer distress from witnessing or being in close proximity to the immediate fall out of this event. I've only read about it and am really upset thinking about it. I imagine those who were there when it happened are suffering some sort of distress as well.

I believe they have to show Disney intended to cause them emotional distress. Heck, if all a bystander has to do is claim they were emotionally distressed by an event, everybody would eventually get paid at some point in life.

It's less common, but there is a cause of action for negligent infliction of emotional distress. I believe other guests would fall within those owed a certain duty of care by Disney.

I don't understand this mindset that if something bad happens to you unexpectedly you feel entitled that someone should have predicted it and prevented it for you.

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Anonymous wrote:1. A "no swimming" sign is not sufficient to cover the risks associated with alligator attacks. That child could have been killed simply walking near the edge of the water.

2. It's not reasonable to expect resort guests coming from Europe, Canada, or yes even Nebraska to know how prevelant alligators are, especially on Disney property where a beach has been set up.

3. Disney was grossly negligent and WILL pay up the a$$ including to this who just witnessed the attack. That's guaranteed.

I disagree. And, I would also say that anyone who doesn't know that Florida has alligators is an imbecile. It's practically the first thing you think of!

Here's the thing - even if you know "Florida has alligators" you may not be familiar with alligator behavior. If a sign says "no swimming", and you make the logic leap that you should not swim due to alligators, you might think your kid is safe WALKING IN LESS THAN A FOOT OF WATER, because that is not swimming. Maybe you think alligators are like sharks - and someone might not swim on account of a shark in the water, but they'd probably walk along the beach and not fear a shark attack. Signage was inadequate and inappropriate to the threat.

I'm really trying to understand this mindset. Alligators are a pretty popular animal. Even if you don't know everything about their behavior, I would argue that the basic stuff is known to ADULTS. I'm really trying to understand this idea that alligators are some weird and mysterious animal.

How familiar do you expect Nebraskans to be with alligator behavior? I had no idea alligators were this aggressive. I thought they mostly left people alone.

Ugh, as much as a Virginian knows to be worried about scorpions? I know that if I'm in the SE, to check my shoes and clothing, even though I've never seen a scorpion. But it is basic common sense.

Is your only experience with crocs is a cuddly stuffed animal? How does someone make it to adulthood not knowing these basic things?

Yes, I in fact have no real-life experience with alligators or crocodiles. Is that crazy to you? There are NO ALLIGATORS WHERE I'M FROM. What you describe is not "common sense" or "basic things", it is specialized knowledge that lots of people do not have.

If there was a sign warning of alligators, that would be one thing. But assuming that people from all over the world know that (1) ALL fresh water in Florida is infested with alligators; (2) alligators will seek out and grab a child even if it is not in the water; and (3) "no swimming" means "don't even go near the water because alligators will eat your kids" is seriously ridiculous.

I have zero real-life experience with alligators, scorpions, or bears. But I know basic risk situations and precautions. You have to be actively turning your head to not know these things.

The signs warned against going in the water - to read otherwise is honestly just playing dumb.

But in the photo posted a previous post (the one in which the poster feels the water is creepy), all the kids were in suits and wet. Weren't they going in the water?

DP. There's a difference between swimming and wading -- a gator is looking for fish, not people, and might mistake wading at water's edge, at dusk or night, for a fish.

^^yep. When I stayed in downtown Anchorage there were a million signs about beware of moose...as well as signs and hotel and x-country ski rental places with instructions of what to do if I encounter one (which I did)...

When I go to Big Sky, MT they don't mess around with the bear warnings and carry the bear spray, etc.

I grew up going to Florida as a kid so swamps and lagoons and gator warnings were known. I don't expect people from other places or countries to know about gators...more education is needed. They were all over golf courses there.

My parents never let us go in the ocean in Outer Banks or Florida In Evening because it was 'shark feeding time'...

Things you learn about nature...along with how to get out of a riptide, etc..don't stand under a tree during a thunderstorm, etc.

But as another pp pointed out---stuff happens in life, accidents happen, freak events happen...so sad.