Anonymous
04/05/2013 20:35
Subject: Prepping/Scamming the Cogat
Anonymous wrote:My 2 yr old told me to stop playing critical thinking games with patterns, shapes, numbers and words because this would constitute cheating for the CoGAT test she may take 4 years from now if we are still living in Va. What a smart whipper snapper. We were floored. She must sneak on DCUM when we are not looking.
Anonymous
04/05/2013 20:29
Subject: Prepping/Scamming the Cogat
My 2 yr old told me to stop playing critical thinking games with patterns, shapes, numbers and words because this would constitute cheating for the CoGAT test she may take 4 years from now if we are still living in Va. What a smart whipper snapper. We were floored. She must sneak on DCUM when we are not looking.
Anonymous
04/05/2013 19:25
Subject: Re:Prepping/Scamming the Cogat
Yes, maybe the schools should show all the children the test questions ahead of time, then every one would be at the same starting point. Oh, but wait, this is a test to measure how well young children handle questions and problems that they have never seen before. Hmm. I wonder what use the test is if everyone has essentially seen all the question types already.
Oh my. I can't tell if you are being intentionally obtuse.
Anonymous
04/05/2013 18:15
Subject: Re:Prepping/Scamming the Cogat
Anonymous wrote:There is a big difference between engaging in critical thinking skills and "prepping" using test materials provided by commercial entities.The questions in these materials are so similar to the actual test questions that they at least appear to be the same to kids whose parents have used these materials.
Here's a quote from a consumer who used one of these company's materials:
My daughter took the test yesterday.... We had a week to cram, and by Saturday she was comfortable with it. My daughter said that
some of the questions were on the test, the patterns were somewhat exact.
This parent was pleased that the child had likely done well on the test because she had seen questions ahead of time that were very, very similar to what she saw on the actual test.
So at least one company is selling materials with questions that mimic those on the test to such a degree that children feel that they have seen the questions before. When children are exposed to this kind of "prep," the results of the child's test will not reflect his or her abilities.
Maybe the makers of the CoGat should address what that company provides so that their test is not undermined by concern that students have access to exact test questions.
Maybe the girl felt comfortable because she had seen similar format. Maybe the schools should provide ALL kids with practice to feel comfortable with similar questions.
Yes, maybe the schools should show all the children the test questions ahead of time, then every one would be at the same starting point. Oh, but wait, this is a test to measure how well young children handle questions and problems that they have never seen before. Hmm. I wonder what use the test is if everyone has essentially seen all the question types already.
Anonymous
04/05/2013 17:06
Subject: Prepping/Scamming the Cogat
Maybe the makers of the CoGat should address what that company provides so that their test is not undermined by concern that students have access to exact test questions.
Maybe the girl felt comfortable because she had seen similar format. Maybe the schools should provide ALL kids with practice to feel comfortable with similar questions.
Maybe the girl felt comfortable because she had seen similar format. Maybe the schools should provide ALL kids with practice to feel comfortable with similar questions.
Anonymous
04/05/2013 16:58
Subject: Re:Prepping/Scamming the Cogat
There is a big difference between engaging in critical thinking skills and "prepping" using test materials provided by commercial entities.The questions in these materials are so similar to the actual test questions that they at least appear to be the same to kids whose parents have used these materials.
Here's a quote from a consumer who used one of these company's materials:
This parent was pleased that the child had likely done well on the test because she had seen questions ahead of time that were very, very similar to what she saw on the actual test.
So at least one company is selling materials with questions that mimic those on the test to such a degree that children feel that they have seen the questions before. When children are exposed to this kind of "prep," the results of the child's test will not reflect his or her abilities.
Here's a quote from a consumer who used one of these company's materials:
My daughter took the test yesterday.... We had a week to cram, and by Saturday she was comfortable with it. My daughter said that
some of the questions were on the test, the patterns were somewhat exact.
This parent was pleased that the child had likely done well on the test because she had seen questions ahead of time that were very, very similar to what she saw on the actual test.
So at least one company is selling materials with questions that mimic those on the test to such a degree that children feel that they have seen the questions before. When children are exposed to this kind of "prep," the results of the child's test will not reflect his or her abilities.
Anonymous
04/05/2013 16:48
Subject: Prepping/Scamming the Cogat
If someone really did have a copy of an actual test that would be not be considered preparing. That would be considered cheating.
Students studying notes, problems, vocabulary, thinking skills = preparing.
Students studying an illegal copy of the actual test=cheating.
Maybe there is a lot of antagonism on this site because those are being confused.
Students studying notes, problems, vocabulary, thinking skills = preparing.
Students studying an illegal copy of the actual test=cheating.
Maybe there is a lot of antagonism on this site because those are being confused.
Anonymous
04/05/2013 16:37
Subject: Prepping/Scamming the Cogat
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
There is no way to show kids actual test questions.
The testing company does not even release old test problems....
Isn't this why the CogAT was changed? I heard that someone got hold of a practice test that had a lot (or all) of the same questions as the real test.
If someone really did have a copy of an actual test that would be not be considered preparing. That would be considered cheating.
Students studying notes, problems, vocabulary, thinking skills = preparing.
Students studying an illegal copy of the actual test=cheating.
Maybe there is a lot of antagonism on this site because those are being confused.
Anonymous
04/05/2013 16:31
Subject: Prepping/Scamming the Cogat
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
There is no way to show kids actual test questions.
The testing company does not even release old test problems....
Isn't this why the CogAT was changed? I heard that someone got hold of a practice test that had a lot (or all) of the same questions as the real test.
Anonymous
04/05/2013 16:21
Subject: Prepping/Scamming the Cogat
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Is there really a 'directive' saying you aren't allowed to practice critical thinking skills with your child?
I think you should feel guilty if you *don't* practice these skills with a child, especially if you have a child that really likes to do that type of thing.
+1
Anonymous
04/05/2013 16:21
Subject: Prepping/Scamming the Cogat
Nope. That's the inconvenient part for the "Prepping Police".
Anonymous
04/05/2013 16:21
Subject: Prepping/Scamming the Cogat
Anonymous wrote:Is there really a 'directive' saying you aren't allowed to practice critical thinking skills with your child?
I think you should feel guilty if you *don't* practice these skills with a child, especially if you have a child that really likes to do that type of thing.
Anonymous
04/05/2013 16:09
Subject: Prepping/Scamming the Cogat
Is there really a 'directive' saying you aren't allowed to practice critical thinking skills with your child?
Anonymous
04/05/2013 16:00
Subject: Prepping/Scamming the Cogat
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
Haha, I see that analogy all the time.Not the same thing at all as showing kids test questions ahead of time, but it is interesting that there are some who think it is.
SHOWING KIDS TEST QUESTIONS ahead of time? = impossible
It would be called cheating. The analogy to that would be a fielder knowing exactly where the ball was going to arrive.
There is no way to show kids actual test questions.
The testing company does not even release old test problems....
No wonder you are cynical if you were confused about that!
How about if the coach explicitly said "no practicing" before the tryouts? Would practicing in the backyard be considered acceptable? Some people choose to do what is right and play by the rules, and some others don't, that's life. Those of you who don't though, please don't try to make it sound like you're doing the right thing, because you know that you are not. And that's why there are so many defensive parents here. Because everyone knows that this is not baseball practice - it's taking a test that you are told that you shouldn't be prepping your kids for. Simple as that. If you choose to ignore this directive, fine, I won't judge, but don't try to make it sound like it's OK, because the bottom line is that you are indeed scamming the system. And the result is that the system is trying to change so that you won't be scamming it as much any more (FxAT anyone?)... I don't see baseball tryouts changing so that there is no backyard practicing...
+ 100 'tis true. test-preppers really doth protest too much on these boards...
Anonymous
04/05/2013 15:32
Subject: Prepping/Scamming the Cogat
Anonymous wrote:
Haha, I see that analogy all the time.
SHOWING KIDS TEST QUESTIONS ahead of time? = impossible
It would be called cheating. The analogy to that would be a fielder knowing exactly where the ball was going to arrive.
There is no way to show kids actual test questions.
The testing company does not even release old test problems....
No wonder you are cynical if you were confused about that!
How about if the coach explicitly said "no practicing" before the tryouts? Would practicing in the backyard be considered acceptable? Some people choose to do what is right and play by the rules, and some others don't, that's life. Those of you who don't though, please don't try to make it sound like you're doing the right thing, because you know that you are not. And that's why there are so many defensive parents here. Because everyone knows that this is not baseball practice - it's taking a test that you are told that you shouldn't be prepping your kids for. Simple as that. If you choose to ignore this directive, fine, I won't judge, but don't try to make it sound like it's OK, because the bottom line is that you are indeed scamming the system. And the result is that the system is trying to change so that you won't be scamming it as much any more (FxAT anyone?)... I don't see baseball tryouts changing so that there is no backyard practicing...