Anonymous wrote:It's just a bonkers inflammatory way to phrase your own choices. I honestly don't care and have been both, but you don't start out with this phrasing unless you're looking to pick a fight.

I think inflammatory is a good adjective here.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder if I "had" to work or "chose" to work. We could have made it on DH's income but he does not want me to stay home because he wants an UMC lifestyle instead of a MC one, which I would have been fine with.

It doesn’t sound like you had a choice. I would have told him to make more money if he wanted a certain lifestyle. If a mother really feels it’s important to be at home for her children then a middle class lifestyle would be fine. Probably better than fine because there would be more like minded mothers to meet and less materialistic people around you.

Yes, a woman’s place is in the home. If he wants more money it’s his job as a leader of the home and provider to go get it. I don’t understand why you stood for this and let him bully you into a job.

I get you’re being sarcastic but the reality is more women than men would prefer to stay home and women have babies. You can claim that it shouldn’t be this way, but the vast majority of women are uninterested in a man who can’t provide for them. It’s biology.

Guarantee you that the PP had a terrible sex life and is or was unhappy. There’s nothing that kills a sex life for a woman like a man who can’t provide and allow a woman to stay home to watch her own kids.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder if I "had" to work or "chose" to work. We could have made it on DH's income but he does not want me to stay home because he wants an UMC lifestyle instead of a MC one, which I would have been fine with.

It doesn’t sound like you had a choice. I would have told him to make more money if he wanted a certain lifestyle. If a mother really feels it’s important to be at home for her children then a middle class lifestyle would be fine. Probably better than fine because there would be more like minded mothers to meet and less materialistic people around you.

Yes, a woman’s place is in the home. If he wants more money it’s his job as a leader of the home and provider to go get it. I don’t understand why you stood for this and let him bully you into a job.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pp again. More than working status, I do think the education standards of the mother matter greatly. DH and I both attended top colleges and our kids expect and also want to attend a top school. I see a huge difference in kids whose parents went to an ivy or other top school and guiding their kids. An uneducated or SAHM who was never professionally successful is different than your Harvard law educated SAHM married to a big law partner.

People keep trying to claim most SAHMs fit this profile, but they do not. Successful and ambitious women want to keep being successful and ambitious. Sure, they may take a break for 4-5 years while the kids are little, if they don’t have a spouse or grandparents to share the childcare load, but it’s a sacrifice and they go back as soon as the youngest hits K. They don’t want to live that lifestyle forever.

The long-term SAHMs I know (in McLean, Arlington, Vienna, and two private schools) were average in terms of education and career but lucky enough to marry rich. Or they do fit the profile above but are dealing with medical or SN issues in themselves or their children.

Pp here. I’m Harvard educated and a SAHM. I know many former lawyers married who stay home. Most people I hang out with are former lawyers. I also know several doctors who are credentialed and work a few shifts a year but basically a SAHM. Maybe it is because I’m a well educated SAHM that I hang out with other well educated SAHMs or very part time working moms. We all have a high earning spouses. I would estimate the husbands all earn seven figures.

“Harvard educated”. Is that supposed to be impressive?

Also how does a doctor work a few “shifts” a year? What specialty? Any doctor that only works a handful of hours a year isn’t a doctor I want to encounter. But let me guess, also Harvard educated?

You can work shifts for ER and anesthesia. You can also work locum tenens.

I also know lawyers who work pro bono or PT doing immigration or family law for little or a loss of money. They are basically SAHMs because this work is essentially volunteer work.

Pro bono work does not mean less hours, just no money. If they only do it occasionally it will take more hours to research for any changes in laws or regulations. Getting back up to speed on the subject. A contested guardianship in family law could be very lengthy with court hours you can’t control. These aren’t areas that you can dabble in. There are other areas that could be occasional part time but not immigration or family law. You sure about this?

Anonymous wrote:I wonder if I "had" to work or "chose" to work. We could have made it on DH's income but he does not want me to stay home because he wants an UMC lifestyle instead of a MC one, which I would have been fine with.

It doesn’t sound like you had a choice. I would have told him to make more money if he wanted a certain lifestyle. If a mother really feels it’s important to be at home for her children then a middle class lifestyle would be fine. Probably better than fine because there would be more like minded mothers to meet and less materialistic people around you.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pp again. More than working status, I do think the education standards of the mother matter greatly. DH and I both attended top colleges and our kids expect and also want to attend a top school. I see a huge difference in kids whose parents went to an ivy or other top school and guiding their kids. An uneducated or SAHM who was never professionally successful is different than your Harvard law educated SAHM married to a big law partner.

People keep trying to claim most SAHMs fit this profile, but they do not. Successful and ambitious women want to keep being successful and ambitious. Sure, they may take a break for 4-5 years while the kids are little, if they don’t have a spouse or grandparents to share the childcare load, but it’s a sacrifice and they go back as soon as the youngest hits K. They don’t want to live that lifestyle forever.

The long-term SAHMs I know (in McLean, Arlington, Vienna, and two private schools) were average in terms of education and career but lucky enough to marry rich. Or they do fit the profile above but are dealing with medical or SN issues in themselves or their children.

Pp here. I’m Harvard educated and a SAHM. I know many former lawyers married who stay home. Most people I hang out with are former lawyers. I also know several doctors who are credentialed and work a few shifts a year but basically a SAHM. Maybe it is because I’m a well educated SAHM that I hang out with other well educated SAHMs or very part time working moms. We all have a high earning spouses. I would estimate the husbands all earn seven figures.

And they all had the doctor/lawyer jobs! Isn’t that funny! Some of my friends were lawyers and left to stay home with the kids. They hated their jobs so they were fine with leaving. My friends, family members and neighbors had all kinds of jobs that they left to stay home full time. Only a couple with 7 figure salaries. Most are middle class or upper middle class. Everyone owns a home, some big l some small, the kids are doing well, doing the ordinary activities of sports and the arts after school.

I love the flexibility of not working. One of my kids is training at 25 hours a week so I can drive her without worry. We have fun in the summer especially with no work to worry about. Kids who have both parents working come with us to the beach or wherever in between camps and going away. I can’t see any difference between kids with working mothers and non-working mothers. You can sometimes see it in the mothers though. Mothers who work are sometimes more stressed and some have good reason to be.

They are trying to use midlevels at ER which is worse than part time physicians.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pp again. More than working status, I do think the education standards of the mother matter greatly. DH and I both attended top colleges and our kids expect and also want to attend a top school. I see a huge difference in kids whose parents went to an ivy or other top school and guiding their kids. An uneducated or SAHM who was never professionally successful is different than your Harvard law educated SAHM married to a big law partner.

People keep trying to claim most SAHMs fit this profile, but they do not. Successful and ambitious women want to keep being successful and ambitious. Sure, they may take a break for 4-5 years while the kids are little, if they don’t have a spouse or grandparents to share the childcare load, but it’s a sacrifice and they go back as soon as the youngest hits K. They don’t want to live that lifestyle forever.

The long-term SAHMs I know (in McLean, Arlington, Vienna, and two private schools) were average in terms of education and career but lucky enough to marry rich. Or they do fit the profile above but are dealing with medical or SN issues in themselves or their children.

Pp here. I’m Harvard educated and a SAHM. I know many former lawyers married who stay home. Most people I hang out with are former lawyers. I also know several doctors who are credentialed and work a few shifts a year but basically a SAHM. Maybe it is because I’m a well educated SAHM that I hang out with other well educated SAHMs or very part time working moms. We all have a high earning spouses. I would estimate the husbands all earn seven figures.

“Harvard educated”. Is that supposed to be impressive?

Also how does a doctor work a few “shifts” a year? What specialty? Any doctor that only works a handful of hours a year isn’t a doctor I want to encounter. But let me guess, also Harvard educated?

You can work shifts for ER and anesthesia. You can also work locum tenens.

I also know lawyers who work pro bono or PT doing immigration or family law for little or a loss of money. They are basically SAHMs because this work is essentially volunteer work.

You can’t only work a few shifts per year. That’s madness.

You can. I know women who do.

I also have a friend who picked up shift work when he was in between jobs. It takes time to get credentialed. You can also get paid to take call on weekends and holidays. This is relatively common. It is like temp work for doctors.

Great, so you're telling me if I wind up in the ER, it could be someone who is not a FT doctor?

Hospitals need 24-7 coverage. Yes, some doctors can work very part time. Sometimes a doctor may require time off or have a baby, just like any other profession and they need to be covered.

The one woman I know who does ER shift work does 1 shift every other week or something like that. She is highly qualified. I would not mind and be happy if she took care of me or my child in the ER.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I always hate the SAHM and WOHM debates because in my circles living in multiple places, I've had a good mix of friends. I've also been both a SAHM (7 years) and a WOHM (now divorced). For me the big debate is whether people are judgmental v nonjudgmental and if they can handle the fact that people are free to make choices that best suit their families.

Saying that someone isn't raising their kids because they have a job isn't true, and is rude to boot.

You are twisting the words. If someone said they stay home because they didn’t want someone else to raise their kids, that doesn’t mean a person with a job isn’t raising their kids. I can’t imagine a scenario where someone would so rudely say that to a working mother because it is rude to say. I say this as a sahm who used to be a working mom and will probably one day again be a working mom.

If you think about it, though, that is exactly what they are saying. Which is why it’s rude. People say rude and thoughtless things all the time. Like this.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I always hate the SAHM and WOHM debates because in my circles living in multiple places, I've had a good mix of friends. I've also been both a SAHM (7 years) and a WOHM (now divorced). For me the big debate is whether people are judgmental v nonjudgmental and if they can handle the fact that people are free to make choices that best suit their families.

Saying that someone isn't raising their kids because they have a job isn't true, and is rude to boot.

You are twisting the words. If someone said they stay home because they didn’t want someone else to raise their kids, that doesn’t mean a person with a job isn’t raising their kids. I can’t imagine a scenario where someone would so rudely say that to a working mother because it is rude to say. I say this as a sahm who used to be a working mom and will probably one day again be a working mom.

So what *exactly* do they mean? Why should we reach beyond what they are actually saying to come up with some nicer, gentler explanation?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pp again. More than working status, I do think the education standards of the mother matter greatly. DH and I both attended top colleges and our kids expect and also want to attend a top school. I see a huge difference in kids whose parents went to an ivy or other top school and guiding their kids. An uneducated or SAHM who was never professionally successful is different than your Harvard law educated SAHM married to a big law partner.

People keep trying to claim most SAHMs fit this profile, but they do not. Successful and ambitious women want to keep being successful and ambitious. Sure, they may take a break for 4-5 years while the kids are little, if they don’t have a spouse or grandparents to share the childcare load, but it’s a sacrifice and they go back as soon as the youngest hits K. They don’t want to live that lifestyle forever.

The long-term SAHMs I know (in McLean, Arlington, Vienna, and two private schools) were average in terms of education and career but lucky enough to marry rich. Or they do fit the profile above but are dealing with medical or SN issues in themselves or their children.

Pp here. I’m Harvard educated and a SAHM. I know many former lawyers married who stay home. Most people I hang out with are former lawyers. I also know several doctors who are credentialed and work a few shifts a year but basically a SAHM. Maybe it is because I’m a well educated SAHM that I hang out with other well educated SAHMs or very part time working moms. We all have a high earning spouses. I would estimate the husbands all earn seven figures.

“Harvard educated”. Is that supposed to be impressive?

Also how does a doctor work a few “shifts” a year? What specialty? Any doctor that only works a handful of hours a year isn’t a doctor I want to encounter. But let me guess, also Harvard educated?

You can work shifts for ER and anesthesia. You can also work locum tenens.

I also know lawyers who work pro bono or PT doing immigration or family law for little or a loss of money. They are basically SAHMs because this work is essentially volunteer work.

You can’t only work a few shifts per year. That’s madness.

You can. I know women who do.

I also have a friend who picked up shift work when he was in between jobs. It takes time to get credentialed. You can also get paid to take call on weekends and holidays. This is relatively common. It is like temp work for doctors.

Great, so you're telling me if I wind up in the ER, it could be someone who is not a FT doctor?

Wow this is quite a fun thread I’ve discovered. I guess I would be called a (mostly) SAHD. We left the Foreign Service and came back stateside because we wanted our kids to grow up near family, and to grow up in the USA. The last thing I want to do is bring in a nanny from the sort of country where they wear shoes made out of potato peels. That’s the sort of child rearing we intended to avoid by coming back home.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pp again. More than working status, I do think the education standards of the mother matter greatly. DH and I both attended top colleges and our kids expect and also want to attend a top school. I see a huge difference in kids whose parents went to an ivy or other top school and guiding their kids. An uneducated or SAHM who was never professionally successful is different than your Harvard law educated SAHM married to a big law partner.

People keep trying to claim most SAHMs fit this profile, but they do not. Successful and ambitious women want to keep being successful and ambitious. Sure, they may take a break for 4-5 years while the kids are little, if they don’t have a spouse or grandparents to share the childcare load, but it’s a sacrifice and they go back as soon as the youngest hits K. They don’t want to live that lifestyle forever.

The long-term SAHMs I know (in McLean, Arlington, Vienna, and two private schools) were average in terms of education and career but lucky enough to marry rich. Or they do fit the profile above but are dealing with medical or SN issues in themselves or their children.

Pp here. I’m Harvard educated and a SAHM. I know many former lawyers married who stay home. Most people I hang out with are former lawyers. I also know several doctors who are credentialed and work a few shifts a year but basically a SAHM. Maybe it is because I’m a well educated SAHM that I hang out with other well educated SAHMs or very part time working moms. We all have a high earning spouses. I would estimate the husbands all earn seven figures.

“Harvard educated”. Is that supposed to be impressive?

Also how does a doctor work a few “shifts” a year? What specialty? Any doctor that only works a handful of hours a year isn’t a doctor I want to encounter. But let me guess, also Harvard educated?

You can work shifts for ER and anesthesia. You can also work locum tenens.

I also know lawyers who work pro bono or PT doing immigration or family law for little or a loss of money. They are basically SAHMs because this work is essentially volunteer work.

You can’t only work a few shifts per year. That’s madness.

You can. I know women who do.

I also have a friend who picked up shift work when he was in between jobs. It takes time to get credentialed. You can also get paid to take call on weekends and holidays. This is relatively common. It is like temp work for doctors.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pp again. More than working status, I do think the education standards of the mother matter greatly. DH and I both attended top colleges and our kids expect and also want to attend a top school. I see a huge difference in kids whose parents went to an ivy or other top school and guiding their kids. An uneducated or SAHM who was never professionally successful is different than your Harvard law educated SAHM married to a big law partner.

People keep trying to claim most SAHMs fit this profile, but they do not. Successful and ambitious women want to keep being successful and ambitious. Sure, they may take a break for 4-5 years while the kids are little, if they don’t have a spouse or grandparents to share the childcare load, but it’s a sacrifice and they go back as soon as the youngest hits K. They don’t want to live that lifestyle forever.

The long-term SAHMs I know (in McLean, Arlington, Vienna, and two private schools) were average in terms of education and career but lucky enough to marry rich. Or they do fit the profile above but are dealing with medical or SN issues in themselves or their children.

Pp here. I’m Harvard educated and a SAHM. I know many former lawyers married who stay home. Most people I hang out with are former lawyers. I also know several doctors who are credentialed and work a few shifts a year but basically a SAHM. Maybe it is because I’m a well educated SAHM that I hang out with other well educated SAHMs or very part time working moms. We all have a high earning spouses. I would estimate the husbands all earn seven figures.

“Harvard educated”. Is that supposed to be impressive?

Also how does a doctor work a few “shifts” a year? What specialty? Any doctor that only works a handful of hours a year isn’t a doctor I want to encounter. But let me guess, also Harvard educated?

You can work shifts for ER and anesthesia. You can also work locum tenens.

I also know lawyers who work pro bono or PT doing immigration or family law for little or a loss of money. They are basically SAHMs because this work is essentially volunteer work.

You can’t only work a few shifts per year. That’s madness.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I always hate the SAHM and WOHM debates because in my circles living in multiple places, I've had a good mix of friends. I've also been both a SAHM (7 years) and a WOHM (now divorced). For me the big debate is whether people are judgmental v nonjudgmental and if they can handle the fact that people are free to make choices that best suit their families.

Saying that someone isn't raising their kids because they have a job isn't true, and is rude to boot.

You are twisting the words. If someone said they stay home because they didn’t want someone else to raise their kids, that doesn’t mean a person with a job isn’t raising their kids. I can’t imagine a scenario where someone would so rudely say that to a working mother because it is rude to say. I say this as a sahm who used to be a working mom and will probably one day again be a working mom.

If someone says this then what other meaning could be taken from it? If I say I stay home because I don't want someone else to raise my kids then it follows that I think that if I DON't stay home then someone else is raising my kids (which is silly and not true)