Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hate to tell you I’ve already achieved my optimal outcome— I’m married to a top 10% man who believes fundamentally that he has to contribute equally or more in all areas of our lives just as I do. I contributed more to gestating and delivering our children. He contributes more income. We both wash dishes. I don’t know who is a “mediocre” woman in your model, because I have never met a woman who didn’t get sexual attention from men if she wanted it. So all women will retain the option to reproduce.

This does not add up.

If he were in the top 10%, he would need a job such as a law partner or doctor, which would make him part of the working wealthy. And to stay within the 10%, he would not be washing dishes (or doing so on a very infrequent basis.) He would be working more than 60 hours a week. I know because I do it.

Now he could contribute income, and you can contribute your uterus (for whatever it is worth), and you are happy with that; however, he would not be busting his guts at work to come home to bust suds for you.

Try again. And this time, try the truth.

You’re obviously not very well valued by your employer if it would take you 60 hours per week to be in the top 10% by income. We both took jobs in which we had the negotiating power to work fewer than 60 hours per week, even though that does mean we forwent additional income as others point out.

Can you please use some real numbers instead of the cryptic gamesmanship. It is an anon board. How much are you and your spouse actually making?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand why anyone gets worked up over the idea that an institution designed by men, for the benefit of men, is not magically equally good for women. Why would we expect it to be?

I'm struggling to see how modern marriage is good for men in any way? What do men get out of it? It seems very beneficial for women though. They get legal access to husband's income, which is usually higher than theirs.

Free sex.

Anonymous wrote:Women perceive that their husbands don’t do enough. But their perception isn’t necesaarily accurate. They do 100% of the things they do and so they feel it’s lopsided. And they don’t value some of the house work men do, or believe it’s the “easier” stuff.

I love how the reported gender balance of work has to be based only on the woman’s perspective to be accurate and anything men say on the topic is biased bc they’re lazy and don’t do anything. Seems like a lot of circular logic.

I’m blissfully ignorant of how big the pie is but from what I’m aware of, I do 50%

Do I get a cookie and a BJ?

This does not add up.

If he were in the top 10%, he would need a job such as a law partner or doctor, which would make him part of the working wealthy. And to stay within the 10%, he would not be washing dishes (or doing so on a very infrequent basis.) He would be working more than 60 hours a week. I know because I do it.

Now he could contribute income, and you can contribute your uterus (for whatever it is worth), and you are happy with that; however, he would not be busting his guts at work to come home to bust suds for you.

Try again. And this time, try the truth.

You’re obviously not very well valued by your employer if it would take you 60 hours per week to be in the top 10% by income. We both took jobs in which we had the negotiating power to work fewer than 60 hours per week, even though that does mean we forwent additional income as others point out.

Your response told me all I needed to know about you and your "top 10%" status. I am the type of person at your firm you would be negotiating with to be able to work less than 60 a week.

You are not an owner or part of the leadership circle where you work. We (the people in this circle) work long hours because we run something we own and love. It takes time to build a business, the time you must spend with clients, etc. instead of washing dishes.

Let me put it in a way you might understand it. I am one of the employers assigning the values (in terms of compensation), not one of the employees to whom a value is assigned (i.e., you.)

Anonymous wrote:Mediocre women can reproduce; mediocre men cannot.

What? Look around - mediocre people (men & women) reproduce all the f-ing time.

Mediocre women can reproduce; mediocre men cannot.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Women perceive that their husbands don’t do enough. But their perception isn’t necesaarily accurate. They do 100% of the things they do and so they feel it’s lopsided. And they don’t value some of the house work men do, or believe it’s the “easier” stuff.

I love how the reported gender balance of work has to be based only on the woman’s perspective to be accurate and anything men say on the topic is biased bc they’re lazy and don’t do anything. Seems like a lot of circular logic.

Amen.

In the subset of tasks I engage in the labor is lopsided. So my husband must do more! No accounting for whether husbands work longer hours in their professionally. No accounting for other household tasks husbands engage in.

Everyone overestimates their contribution and underestimates their partner's contribution. But by all means let's just listen to women's complaints on the issue as gospel truth.

I think it’s more about revealed preferences. 18.9% of men are childless. Only 10.2% of women are. Nearly 1 in 5 men is considered unsuitable.

Boy, I hope you don't work with numbers for anything that matters!

Anonymous wrote:Unless the husband is rich.

Women do most of the unpaid and unnoticed domestic labor in the home. They use their body to create babies and then do most of the childcare.

If the husband isn’t rich, what does he bring to the table?

Horrible deal for rich men, even if they have a prenup...just have lots of sex if you are rich, and have a kid with a girlfriend. Or use a surrogate.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Women perceive that their husbands don’t do enough. But their perception isn’t necesaarily accurate. They do 100% of the things they do and so they feel it’s lopsided. And they don’t value some of the house work men do, or believe it’s the “easier” stuff.

I love how the reported gender balance of work has to be based only on the woman’s perspective to be accurate and anything men say on the topic is biased bc they’re lazy and don’t do anything. Seems like a lot of circular logic.

Amen.

In the subset of tasks I engage in the labor is lopsided. So my husband must do more! No accounting for whether husbands work longer hours in their professionally. No accounting for other household tasks husbands engage in.

Everyone overestimates their contribution and underestimates their partner's contribution. But by all means let's just listen to women's complaints on the issue as gospel truth.

I think it’s more about revealed preferences. 18.9% of men are childless. Only 10.2% of women are. Nearly 1 in 5 men is considered unsuitable.

I have realized I was using out of date numbers. It is closer to one in four men in 2022.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Women perceive that their husbands don’t do enough. But their perception isn’t necesaarily accurate. They do 100% of the things they do and so they feel it’s lopsided. And they don’t value some of the house work men do, or believe it’s the “easier” stuff.

I love how the reported gender balance of work has to be based only on the woman’s perspective to be accurate and anything men say on the topic is biased bc they’re lazy and don’t do anything. Seems like a lot of circular logic.

Amen.

In the subset of tasks I engage in the labor is lopsided. So my husband must do more! No accounting for whether husbands work longer hours in their professionally. No accounting for other household tasks husbands engage in.

Everyone overestimates their contribution and underestimates their partner's contribution. But by all means let's just listen to women's complaints on the issue as gospel truth.

I think it’s more about revealed preferences. 18.9% of men are childless. Only 10.2% of women are. Nearly 1 in 5 men is considered unsuitable.

Anonymous wrote:I hate to tell you I’ve already achieved my optimal outcome— I’m married to a top 10% man who believes fundamentally that he has to contribute equally or more in all areas of our lives just as I do. I contributed more to gestating and delivering our children. He contributes more income. We both wash dishes. I don’t know who is a “mediocre” woman in your model, because I have never met a woman who didn’t get sexual attention from men if she wanted it. So all women will retain the option to reproduce.

This does not add up.

If he were in the top 10%, he would need a job such as a law partner or doctor, which would make him part of the working wealthy. And to stay within the 10%, he would not be washing dishes (or doing so on a very infrequent basis.) He would be working more than 60 hours a week. I know because I do it.

Now he could contribute income, and you can contribute your uterus (for whatever it is worth), and you are happy with that; however, he would not be busting his guts at work to come home to bust suds for you.

Try again. And this time, try the truth.

You’re obviously not very well valued by your employer if it would take you 60 hours per week to be in the top 10% by income. We both took jobs in which we had the negotiating power to work fewer than 60 hours per week, even though that does mean we forwent additional income as others point out.

Anonymous wrote:What you are really saying is having children is a bad deal for women. Which many women have already figured out. Being dinks has many advantages for both spouses.

But the work environment n the US is hostile to moms. Imagine if moms got a year of paid leave and free crèche/prek standard. It would be a whole different ballgame.

And yes, moms do have to work. Since the odds of divorce are 50/50, a wealthy husband is not a good bet over building your own career. Everyone has to be self reliant.

This! Family friendly policies would go a long way to improving marriages, families and children's lives in the US. We are beyond past time needing to address this. Universal health care that is not specific job dependent wouldn't hurt either!

Anonymous wrote:Women perceive that their husbands don’t do enough. But their perception isn’t necesaarily accurate. They do 100% of the things they do and so they feel it’s lopsided. And they don’t value some of the house work men do, or believe it’s the “easier” stuff.

I love how the reported gender balance of work has to be based only on the woman’s perspective to be accurate and anything men say on the topic is biased bc they’re lazy and don’t do anything. Seems like a lot of circular logic.

Amen.

In the subset of tasks I engage in the labor is lopsided. So my husband must do more! No accounting for whether husbands work longer hours in their professionally. No accounting for other household tasks husbands engage in.

Everyone overestimates their contribution and underestimates their partner's contribution. But by all means let's just listen to women's complaints on the issue as gospel truth.

Anonymous wrote:Women perceive that their husbands don’t do enough. But their perception isn’t necesaarily accurate. They do 100% of the things they do and so they feel it’s lopsided. And they don’t value some of the house work men do, or believe it’s the “easier” stuff.

I love how the reported gender balance of work has to be based only on the woman’s perspective to be accurate and anything men say on the topic is biased bc they’re lazy and don’t do anything. Seems like a lot of circular logic.

It's not based only on the woman's perspective, in surveys men report that they do fewer hours of housework than women.

Women perceive that their husbands don’t do enough. But their perception isn’t necesaarily accurate. They do 100% of the things they do and so they feel it’s lopsided. And they don’t value some of the house work men do, or believe it’s the “easier” stuff.

I love how the reported gender balance of work has to be based only on the woman’s perspective to be accurate and anything men say on the topic is biased bc they’re lazy and don’t do anything. Seems like a lot of circular logic.