Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Other defendants have tried an "Ambien defense," but I don't think they've been successful.

And I’m sure the psychiatrist explained the side effects which are also prominently displayed on prescriptions. I think they’re trying to set up a medical malpractice/wrongful death case and I hope they don’t prevail assuming the psychiatrist was following the standard of care. I think it’s common to try different medicines to find what works and that seems like what the doctor was doing here.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Other defendants have tried an "Ambien defense," but I don't think they've been successful.

And I’m sure the psychiatrist explained the side effects which are also prominently displayed on prescriptions. I think they’re trying to set up a medical malpractice/wrongful death case and I hope they don’t prevail assuming the psychiatrist was following the standard of care. I think it’s common to try different medicines to find what works and that seems like what the doctor was doing here.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Other defendants have tried an "Ambien defense," but I don't think they've been successful.

And I’m sure the psychiatrist explained the side effects which are also prominently displayed on prescriptions. I think they’re trying to set up a medical malpractice/wrongful death case and I hope they don’t prevail assuming the psychiatrist was following the standard of care. I think it’s common to try different medicines to find what works and that seems like what the doctor was doing here.

I hope they don’t win on this either. This lady is evil and should be locked up forever. All the sympathy for her and normalizing/excusing her behavior has opened up a door for the Christopher Watts’ and Casey Anthony’s of the world to commit heinous crimes and get off on insanity or medical malpractice defense. Psychiatrists will be targeted, even less people will go into the mental health field, and our mental health crisis will get even worse.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look she is a murderer. This is not complicated

This. 25 pages and this is still the answer.

Yes, we can blame PPD/PPP all we want but in the end, she viciously murdered her three children. It’s the same as the the mentally unstable school shooter, or a mentally ill father who kills his family, who we demonize. Why is PPD/PPP held to a higher standard and empathized with any more than schizophrenia or any other mental illness, or having a long history of being bullied and ostracized?

Postpartum illnesses ARE different than schizophrenia BECAUSE of how they arise. These illnesses are a direct result of predisposition, hormonal imbalances, lifestyle changes, and the many other circumstances that go into someone's mental state. People experiencing postpartum depression and anxiety often have a history of anxiety and depression, but people experiencing postpartum psychosis do not have a history of psychosis. They are not schizophrenic and when the psychosis breaks, they are largely the same people they were before, albeit with the consequences of whatever happened during the psychosis to grapple with.

Postpartum mental health problems have a huge history of stigmatization, even more so than other mental health problems. You need look no further than this thread to see that in action. The prosecutor understands what they're talking about. The posters who have experienced this or have family members who have. But most of you posters have no idea what you're talking about.

As for what treatment she was engaged in, there are various levels of psychiatric care. Your regular outpatient therapy appointments once a week or every other week is the lowest level. It sounded to me like Lindsay Clancy was in an intensive outpatient program, which is essentially 3-4 hours of therapy 3-5 times a week. When I worked in an IOP, it was group therapy, individual therapy, family therapy, and medication management. This was for teenagers, but those are pretty standard components of any higher level of psychiatric care. People who are deemed clinically appropriate for an IOP have been determined to not be actively suicidal or homicidal, not actively psychotic, etc. They are essentially deemed safe enough to stay at home. I don't know the extent to which any of Lindsay's doctors felt that it was safe for her to care for children or be alone with them, but it definitely sounds like her problems were more severe than anyone realized.

I just have a huge issue with the large number of posters who either don't believe that postpartum psychosis is a real thing. It remains to be seen what actually happened here, but it is mindblowing to me that what seems to be such a clear case of postpartum psychosis to me, and the prosecutor, and the PPs who have experience with psychosis, is such a clear case of something else to so many of you.

Murder committed by a woman suffering from PPD/PPP should not punished any differently than murders committed by other mentally ill people. Lindsay was presumably under or misdiagnosed as were probably most school shooters and mass murderers. This is where I have a major issue, we immediately demonize other murderers regardless of their past or present issues/illnesses. Why should PPD/PPP be held to a higher standard? Why? I have a real problem with this. Please explain to me why someone like Nicholas Cruz, who had a terrible childhood and most likely suffered from some mental illness, along with most school shooters, or even Chris Watts, how do we know he wasn’t suffering from some sort of mental illness? Most murderers don’t get a pass, any sympathy, except for postpartum white women.

I think Chris Watts killed his family because he was a selfish jerk who wanted a new life with a sexy lady. So no, I don’t have compassion for him. If he had killed his child because, say, the child was terminal and dying a slow and painful death, and Chris wanted his child to be free from pain, I’d have much more compassion for him.

After learning about Cruz’ life, my disgust shifted from him to his birth mother. I absolutely believe he has FAS and his brain is not wired right. Unfortunately, the way it is wired led him to kill a bunch of innocent people. He’d probably do it again. So, compassion or not, he needs to rot in jail. He is a danger to society.

Putting aside what Clancy will face legally, it just seems to me with proper medication and oversight (no more births), she’s not a danger to our society. She (likely) has a specific psychosis brought on by pregnancy / childbirth.

Lindsay Clancy worked as an L&D RN, I don’t care how medicated she is, I don’t want her caring for me or my baby ever. Luckily she won’t ever work again because she will be institutionalized or imprisoned for life.

I think you still don't understand that postpartum psychosis is not permanent. Women experiencing postpartum psychosis don't STAY psychotic. When the psychosis breaks, it is entirely possible that Lindsay Clancy will be as mentally healthy as you are, PP, albeit with a hell of a trauma to process and try, somehow, to overcome.

Cool. Well, she can process it until she’s 80 behind some manner of locked door,

Cool. Well, hopefully there are smarter people in charge that won’t want to waste the public’s tax dollars for the next ~50 years at $60k per year she spends in prison. Great return on that investment, compared to say, addressing underlying foundational issues like healthcare access and quality.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Other defendants have tried an "Ambien defense," but I don't think they've been successful.

And I’m sure the psychiatrist explained the side effects which are also prominently displayed on prescriptions. I think they’re trying to set up a medical malpractice/wrongful death case and I hope they don’t prevail assuming the psychiatrist was following the standard of care. I think it’s common to try different medicines to find what works and that seems like what the doctor was doing here.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: To those that are judging her horrible actions, we need to remember that she was out of her mind. This is not the act of a well or rational person. It's so sad and so tragic.

She killed 2 people seriously harmed another who ended up dying and herself in a relatively short period of time.

That's not a small act. Specifically the method she used to kill the kids. Toddlers are strong as heck they would have been fighting. Strangulation is a horrific way to go.

As a medical professional she would know this

She may have a mental illness but I'm not willing to mitigate what she did based on that alone

Yes, she moved quick. Husband was gone 30 minutes, that's less than 10 min to kill each child and jump out of the window. It was reported there was obvious signs of trauma, so it sounds like they fought. It didn't happen in the middle of the night while they were asleep with sleep medication. It must have been a violent struggle with the 2 oldest kids.

+1

This wasn’t a situation where she drove them off a cliff or something all at once. She strangled each child. She watched her child die at her hands and then still went to the next to do it again. She is an absolute monster. Why didn’t she throw the kids out the window? It just seems so thought out and brutal and horrible.

It is kind of nuts how long it would have taken with each separate child. Same with drowning or smothering. It was take a full minute or two for each one, while they fought.