Anonymous
Post 02/19/2022 10:55     Subject: US has no good options in Ukraine
Anonymous wrote:Pp that said, where does it stop? I mean, isn't that how the Second World War came about? The powers allowed concessions to Germany, a little bit of Austria, of Czechoslovakia. Till Poland?


It stops when a NATO ally is attacked.

Remember when Trump was questioning the US being in NATO and the strength of our commitment to Article 5 (which says that NATO allies will militarily support each other is attacked)?

Remember when Trump supporters like Newt Gingrich were saying things like Estonia (a NATO ally) was "the suburbs of St Petersburg" and we shouldn't come to their defense and risk nuclear war if Russia attacked them?

From July 2016, during the election:

The Republican presidential nominee re-emphasized his isolationist instincts in an interview last week with the New York Times, when he refused to answer “yes” to the question of whether NATO members could “count on the United States to come to their military aid if they were attacked by Russia?”

Mr. Trump resorted to his favorite trope that many NATO states “are not making payments” and that “you can’t forget the bills.” That would be a useful argument if his point was merely to spur Europeans to spend more on defense.

But Mr. Trump seems to mean that any country that doesn’t meet the alliance’s defense-spending target of 2% of gross domestic product will forfeit NATO’s security guarantees. This is an invitation to Vladimir Putin to invade any NATO country not currently meeting its requirement—such as the Baltic states of Latvia and Lithuania.


https://www.wsj.com/articles/why-die-for-tallinn-1469459693

This is why I support Democrats for President. They will honor our commitments to our European allies. NATO has been a success which is why there hasn't been a major war in Europe in almost 80 years.
Anonymous
Post 02/19/2022 10:28     Subject: US has no good options in Ukraine
Anonymous wrote:Pp that said, where does it stop? I mean, isn't that how the Second World War came about? The powers allowed concessions to Germany, a little bit of Austria, of Czechoslovakia. Till Poland?


+100 That's what I've been telling people. By trying to avoid a war, we're doing exactly what people did in the buildup to WWII.
Anonymous
Post 02/19/2022 10:17     Subject: US has no good options in Ukraine
Pp that said, where does it stop? I mean, isn't that how the Second World War came about? The powers allowed concessions to Germany, a little bit of Austria, of Czechoslovakia. Till Poland?
Anonymous
Post 02/19/2022 10:16     Subject: US has no good options in Ukraine
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:So I had a lot of work... are Russia and Ukraine nos at war? They are fightng? I did search the news, but it is all still, Russia is posed to invade Ukraine, same as 3 weeks ago, seems like.


Russia annexed Crimea years ago and has been occupying Eastern Ukraine for a while. It's believed they're about to launch a full scale invasion and try to take Kiev within the next few days. Russian-backed forces have been shelling in Eastern Ukraine and attacked a kindergarten with children inside it.

So why were we ok that Russia has been occupying Eastern Ukraine for a while? I know Crimea is mostly ethnic Russian, so nobody seems to care, but why did we not care about the Eastern Ukraine occupation but now care about more invasions?
I just do not get anything other than the gas pipeline money connection issue.


Basically we pulled a "peace in our time" and made them compromise and stop attacking each other and pull back artillery, etc while letting Russia control those areas.

So, now every five years, it is kind of ok for Russia to take a bit chunk of Ukraine till it has all of it? I suppose it is worth sacrifising one corrupt country to please another corrupt country that is a lesser superpower, to avoid a World War?
Well, I guess I agree with that, nobody wants an all out nuclear war, so we are all looking for self preservation. But where does it stop? When they start enroaching on Poland? Romania? Germany?


Exactly. Are we just going to let Russia take over countries until one of them is a NATO ally?
Anonymous
Post 02/19/2022 10:09     Subject: US has no good options in Ukraine
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:So I had a lot of work... are Russia and Ukraine nos at war? They are fightng? I did search the news, but it is all still, Russia is posed to invade Ukraine, same as 3 weeks ago, seems like.


Russia annexed Crimea years ago and has been occupying Eastern Ukraine for a while. It's believed they're about to launch a full scale invasion and try to take Kiev within the next few days. Russian-backed forces have been shelling in Eastern Ukraine and attacked a kindergarten with children inside it.

So why were we ok that Russia has been occupying Eastern Ukraine for a while? I know Crimea is mostly ethnic Russian, so nobody seems to care, but why did we not care about the Eastern Ukraine occupation but now care about more invasions?
I just do not get anything other than the gas pipeline money connection issue.


Basically we pulled a "peace in our time" and made them compromise and stop attacking each other and pull back artillery, etc while letting Russia control those areas.

So, now every five years, it is kind of ok for Russia to take a bit chunk of Ukraine till it has all of it? I suppose it is worth sacrifising one corrupt country to please another corrupt country that is a lesser superpower, to avoid a World War?
Well, I guess I agree with that, nobody wants an all out nuclear war, so we are all looking for self preservation. But where does it stop? When they start enroaching on Poland? Romania? Germany?
Anonymous
Post 02/19/2022 09:57     Subject: US has no good options in Ukraine
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:So I had a lot of work... are Russia and Ukraine nos at war? They are fightng? I did search the news, but it is all still, Russia is posed to invade Ukraine, same as 3 weeks ago, seems like.


Russia annexed Crimea years ago and has been occupying Eastern Ukraine for a while. It's believed they're about to launch a full scale invasion and try to take Kiev within the next few days. Russian-backed forces have been shelling in Eastern Ukraine and attacked a kindergarten with children inside it.

So why were we ok that Russia has been occupying Eastern Ukraine for a while? I know Crimea is mostly ethnic Russian, so nobody seems to care, but why did we not care about the Eastern Ukraine occupation but now care about more invasions?
I just do not get anything other than the gas pipeline money connection issue.


Basically we pulled a "peace in our time" and made them compromise and stop attacking each other and pull back artillery, etc while letting Russia control those areas.
Anonymous
Post 02/19/2022 09:55     Subject: Re:US has no good options in Ukraine


Anonymous
Post 02/19/2022 09:54     Subject: US has no good options in Ukraine
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:So I had a lot of work... are Russia and Ukraine nos at war? They are fightng? I did search the news, but it is all still, Russia is posed to invade Ukraine, same as 3 weeks ago, seems like.


Russia annexed Crimea years ago and has been occupying Eastern Ukraine for a while. It's believed they're about to launch a full scale invasion and try to take Kiev within the next few days. Russian-backed forces have been shelling in Eastern Ukraine and attacked a kindergarten with children inside it.

So why were we ok that Russia has been occupying Eastern Ukraine for a while? I know Crimea is mostly ethnic Russian, so nobody seems to care, but why did we not care about the Eastern Ukraine occupation but now care about more invasions?
I just do not get anything other than the gas pipeline money connection issue.
Anonymous
Post 02/19/2022 09:50     Subject: US has no good options in Ukraine
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I mean one news said "Russian troops are beginning to uncoil and are poised to strike." Were they not saying the same two weeks ago? How are they more uncoiled now?
It's like the media wants the war and the invasion. Are they attacking or not, it's like reading a sudoku!


This is the best possible thing to hold Putin off. It’s a little hard to pull his usual false flag BS if the world media is reporting on his every moment. The world has changed quite a bit since his glory days.


+1 It's definitely anxiety-inducing but with everyone picking apart his BS in real time, he can't convince people with his misinformation.
Anonymous
Post 02/19/2022 09:49     Subject: US has no good options in Ukraine
Anonymous wrote:So I had a lot of work... are Russia and Ukraine nos at war? They are fightng? I did search the news, but it is all still, Russia is posed to invade Ukraine, same as 3 weeks ago, seems like.


Russia annexed Crimea years ago and has been occupying Eastern Ukraine for a while. It's believed they're about to launch a full scale invasion and try to take Kiev within the next few days. Russian-backed forces have been shelling in Eastern Ukraine and attacked a kindergarten with children inside it.
Anonymous
Post 02/19/2022 09:49     Subject: US has no good options in Ukraine
Anonymous wrote:I mean one news said "Russian troops are beginning to uncoil and are poised to strike." Were they not saying the same two weeks ago? How are they more uncoiled now?
It's like the media wants the war and the invasion. Are they attacking or not, it's like reading a sudoku!


This is the best possible thing to hold Putin off. It’s a little hard to pull his usual false flag BS if the world media is reporting on his every moment. The world has changed quite a bit since his glory days.
Anonymous
Post 02/19/2022 09:45     Subject: US has no good options in Ukraine
I mean one news said "Russian troops are beginning to uncoil and are poised to strike." Were they not saying the same two weeks ago? How are they more uncoiled now?
It's like the media wants the war and the invasion. Are they attacking or not, it's like reading a sudoku!
Anonymous
Post 02/19/2022 09:42     Subject: US has no good options in Ukraine
Anonymous wrote:They are significantly escalating, actively looking for false flag attacks. Bombarding Ukraine’s positions next to the occupied territories.

Thanks. So, they are in fact bombing Ukraine? What are these occupied terriorites? I know Crimea, but something about Donetsk too?
Anonymous
Post 02/19/2022 09:38     Subject: US has no good options in Ukraine
They are significantly escalating, actively looking for false flag attacks. Bombarding Ukraine’s positions next to the occupied territories.
Anonymous
Post 02/19/2022 09:33     Subject: US has no good options in Ukraine
So I had a lot of work... are Russia and Ukraine nos at war? They are fightng? I did search the news, but it is all still, Russia is posed to invade Ukraine, same as 3 weeks ago, seems like.