Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As soon as someone can explain the procedure of how a person is put on a terror watchlist, is notified of their being on that list, and can explain how they petition how to be removed from it, we can discuss it.


But you can't. Because it's a secret list.

You're not told if you're on it. You're not told why you're on it. And there's no means to get off of it.

So when we have some openness about the watch list, then we can talk about it. Until then, nonstarter.



As for online sales of guns: 100% of guns sold through online auction or sales sites have a federal background check associated with them. Every. Single. One.


Because federal law requires the gun be shipped to a FFL, not directly to the buyer. The FFL logs it into their bound book, and transfers it to the buyer after the federal paperwork and NICS check is done, in addition to any state paperwork, if there is any.

Again, to reiterate: EVERY GUN SOLD ONLINE THROUGH A GUN AUCTION/SALE OR TRADING WEBSITE GOES THROUGH A DEALER AND HAS A BACKGROUND CHECK ASSOCIATED WITH IT.

A GUN CANNOT BE PURCHASED ONLINE AND SENT DIRECTLY TO THE BUYER. PERIOD. FULL-STOP.




Now, can we please stop with the repetitive, childish, moronic, infantile "but what about guns sold online?" questions????

You have your answer. Yet again. Enough already.

Ok. And what about the online classified? Like PP posted - VAGunTrader.com? Or armslist.com as I mentioned earlier?

Felons can buy guns via online classified with no background check.

Felons can also buy them at yard sales. Or flea markets. Or from friends. Or from family. Or from straw buyers. Or from other criminals. Or steal them. Or even build them from scratch if need be.

And it's already illegal for a felon to do all those things.


So what's your point, exactly?

That universal background checks will give felons fewer options to buy guns.

Like prescription requirements give junkies fewer options to get drugs.

Exactly. It's getting increasingly difficult for junkies to obtain opiods because of tighter controls around prescriptions.
https://www.cdc.gov/drugoverdose/pdf/guidelines_at-a-glance-a.pdf

So..... what you're saying then.... is when addicts can't obtain something legally, they just give up and stop looking.


Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!


No. When addicts can't find something legally, they simply obtain it illegally.

But felons don't do that with guns. Nah... totally different scenario, right?


Why don't you just admit that the REAL reason you want background checks on private sales is because you want the information on who owns what in a giant database, so when the time comes to confiscate them all, you know who has what.

Seriously, just admit that. We already know it anyway. But we'd actually have a modicum of respect for you if you had the courage to admit that's the plan.

But you never do. You go on thinking we'll never figure it out until it's too late.

Yeah, that went out with the Sullivan Law.

No, I said it makes it “increasingly difficult” - just as a universal background checks would make it increasingly difficult for felons to buy guns.

Are you a felon? Why do you want to give them easy ways to buy guns?

And your whole “REAL reason” tirade makes you sound like a paranoid nut job projecting your inner fears on me.

Ahhhhhhh yes, the old "paranoid" tripe. That's what you folks throw out when you know you're caught.

It's not paranoia. It's reality. Search: "Sullivan Law NYC". Search "CA assault weapon registry"

I know you won't, so I'll Cliff Note it for you anyway:

In both cases, registration lists were later used to confiscate guns from owners after a change in the law, despite assurances when the registration laws were passed that no such thing would ever occur. In CA's case, it didn't even take 5 years to go from registration to confiscation.

And background checks on private sales do just that - they create an up-to-date registry of who owns what, because each gun is logged in on the bound books of the FFL doing the transfer. The dealers essentially are being used to build the gun registry that the govt is legally prohibited from building itself. Then the BATFE simply collects the books from the dealers periodically, as they do now already, and builds a registry.


You're factually underequipped to engage in this argument.


Now, call me another name or insult me. Because that's all you've got.

That’s funny after you’ve tried to insult me on multiple posts. And then when I respond with facts you go silent.

Do you think we should require background checks for any gun sale?

Nope. I don't insult anyone. I don't need to. I'm better than that. I win arguments on this topic because I'm better informed than you. Insults and name calling are the last ditch measure of people who can't win an argument.

I'm ok with background checks on sales of new guns from licensed dealers.

And as others have suggested, open NICS to private sellers so they can run the same background check themselves just like a dealer would. But with no component that establishes a record of who owns what gun.

FWIW, I think everyone who shops at Home Depot or Lowes or other hardware stores should have background checks, too. Because everything you need to literally build a working gun from scratch is in just about every hardware store in the country.

Do you support background checks every time you go to Home Depot?

^^^ does not support universal background checks ^^^

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As soon as someone can explain the procedure of how a person is put on a terror watchlist, is notified of their being on that list, and can explain how they petition how to be removed from it, we can discuss it.


But you can't. Because it's a secret list.

You're not told if you're on it. You're not told why you're on it. And there's no means to get off of it.

So when we have some openness about the watch list, then we can talk about it. Until then, nonstarter.



As for online sales of guns: 100% of guns sold through online auction or sales sites have a federal background check associated with them. Every. Single. One.


Because federal law requires the gun be shipped to a FFL, not directly to the buyer. The FFL logs it into their bound book, and transfers it to the buyer after the federal paperwork and NICS check is done, in addition to any state paperwork, if there is any.

Again, to reiterate: EVERY GUN SOLD ONLINE THROUGH A GUN AUCTION/SALE OR TRADING WEBSITE GOES THROUGH A DEALER AND HAS A BACKGROUND CHECK ASSOCIATED WITH IT.

A GUN CANNOT BE PURCHASED ONLINE AND SENT DIRECTLY TO THE BUYER. PERIOD. FULL-STOP.




Now, can we please stop with the repetitive, childish, moronic, infantile "but what about guns sold online?" questions????

You have your answer. Yet again. Enough already.

Ok. And what about the online classified? Like PP posted - VAGunTrader.com? Or armslist.com as I mentioned earlier?

Felons can buy guns via online classified with no background check.

Felons can also buy them at yard sales. Or flea markets. Or from friends. Or from family. Or from straw buyers. Or from other criminals. Or steal them. Or even build them from scratch if need be.

And it's already illegal for a felon to do all those things.


So what's your point, exactly?

That universal background checks will give felons fewer options to buy guns.

Like prescription requirements give junkies fewer options to get drugs.

Exactly. It's getting increasingly difficult for junkies to obtain opiods because of tighter controls around prescriptions.
https://www.cdc.gov/drugoverdose/pdf/guidelines_at-a-glance-a.pdf

So..... what you're saying then.... is when addicts can't obtain something legally, they just give up and stop looking.


Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!


No. When addicts can't find something legally, they simply obtain it illegally.

But felons don't do that with guns. Nah... totally different scenario, right?


Why don't you just admit that the REAL reason you want background checks on private sales is because you want the information on who owns what in a giant database, so when the time comes to confiscate them all, you know who has what.

Seriously, just admit that. We already know it anyway. But we'd actually have a modicum of respect for you if you had the courage to admit that's the plan.

But you never do. You go on thinking we'll never figure it out until it's too late.

Yeah, that went out with the Sullivan Law.

No, I said it makes it “increasingly difficult” - just as a universal background checks would make it increasingly difficult for felons to buy guns.

Are you a felon? Why do you want to give them easy ways to buy guns?

And your whole “REAL reason” tirade makes you sound like a paranoid nut job projecting your inner fears on me.

Ahhhhhhh yes, the old "paranoid" tripe. That's what you folks throw out when you know you're caught.

It's not paranoia. It's reality. Search: "Sullivan Law NYC". Search "CA assault weapon registry"

I know you won't, so I'll Cliff Note it for you anyway:

In both cases, registration lists were later used to confiscate guns from owners after a change in the law, despite assurances when the registration laws were passed that no such thing would ever occur. In CA's case, it didn't even take 5 years to go from registration to confiscation.

And background checks on private sales do just that - they create an up-to-date registry of who owns what, because each gun is logged in on the bound books of the FFL doing the transfer. The dealers essentially are being used to build the gun registry that the govt is legally prohibited from building itself. Then the BATFE simply collects the books from the dealers periodically, as they do now already, and builds a registry.


You're factually underequipped to engage in this argument.


Now, call me another name or insult me. Because that's all you've got.

That’s funny after you’ve tried to insult me on multiple posts. And then when I respond with facts you go silent.

Do you think we should require background checks for any gun sale?

Nope. I don't insult anyone. I don't need to. I'm better than that. I win arguments on this topic because I'm better informed than you. Insults and name calling are the last ditch measure of people who can't win an argument.

I'm ok with background checks on sales of new guns from licensed dealers.

And as others have suggested, open NICS to private sellers so they can run the same background check themselves just like a dealer would. But with no component that establishes a record of who owns what gun.

FWIW, I think everyone who shops at Home Depot or Lowes or other hardware stores should have background checks, too. Because everything you need to literally build a working gun from scratch is in just about every hardware store in the country.

Do you support background checks every time you go to Home Depot?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The "open NICS to private sellers" suggestion has seemingly driven off the anti-gunners like a crucifix to a vampire.

I guess they don't really care so much about the background checks, as creating a gun registry from second-hand gun sales. That seems to be the real goal for them.


As usual, they lie to conceal their real goals.

par·a·noi·a
/?per??noi?/
noun
a mental condition characterized by delusions of persecution, unwarranted jealousy, or exaggerated self-importance, typically elaborated into an organized system.



No, my "real goal" is trying to keep guns out of the hands of people who shouldn't have them. You want to give felons the option to buy guns via online classified?

And the responsible, unlicensed gun sellers already ask for concealed carry permit, ID, bill of sale, etc. Open NCIS would a nice extra. It'd be even better if it'd be required for ALL private sales.

It won't stop anyone who wants a gun from getting a gun.

Also it won't stop straw purchases.

No, but it limits their options and makes it more difficult.

From your argument, why have any background checks at all?

Either people should have a background check or not.

I see them as pointless because straw purchases are almost never prosecuted. If we aren't going to prosecute, then background checks only serve to enrich FFL holders.

Actually enforce the rules and I might get on board with itz otherwise it's just a feel-good measure.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The "open NICS to private sellers" suggestion has seemingly driven off the anti-gunners like a crucifix to a vampire.

I guess they don't really care so much about the background checks, as creating a gun registry from second-hand gun sales. That seems to be the real goal for them.


As usual, they lie to conceal their real goals.

Yeah. They usually want no part of the truth but hopefully we can educate them. The same thing happened in the thread where SB16 was discussed extensively. It took many pages and many insults, but they were finally convinced why Northams Assault weapons ban was stupid.

So you do support universal background checks now? That's great.

When have I not supported background checks? I would tell you to keep up, but I suspect you are just being disingenuous or trying to save some face.

You support universal background checks? Great!

Yeah, most gun owners do sweetheart. Again, please try to keep up or disengage from the discussion.

You should check in with your buddies from the past few pages. They openly do NOT support UBC. Try to keep up!

Well you were addressing me though right? And not my “buddies”? Anyway it is pretty common knowledge that most of us do. Don’t take my word though, do your own research and don’t rely on an anonymous forum.

You referred to the discussion so I was filling you in...since you seemed a little lost.

You should talk to your "buddies" about their views.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The "open NICS to private sellers" suggestion has seemingly driven off the anti-gunners like a crucifix to a vampire.

I guess they don't really care so much about the background checks, as creating a gun registry from second-hand gun sales. That seems to be the real goal for them.


As usual, they lie to conceal their real goals.

Yeah. They usually want no part of the truth but hopefully we can educate them. The same thing happened in the thread where SB16 was discussed extensively. It took many pages and many insults, but they were finally convinced why Northams Assault weapons ban was stupid.

So you do support universal background checks now? That's great.

When have I not supported background checks? I would tell you to keep up, but I suspect you are just being disingenuous or trying to save some face.

You support universal background checks? Great!

Yeah, most gun owners do sweetheart. Again, please try to keep up or disengage from the discussion.

You should check in with your buddies from the past few pages. They openly do NOT support UBC. Try to keep up!

Well you were addressing me though right? And not my “buddies”? Anyway it is pretty common knowledge that most of us do. Don’t take my word though, do your own research and don’t rely on an anonymous forum.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The "open NICS to private sellers" suggestion has seemingly driven off the anti-gunners like a crucifix to a vampire.

I guess they don't really care so much about the background checks, as creating a gun registry from second-hand gun sales. That seems to be the real goal for them.


As usual, they lie to conceal their real goals.

Yeah. They usually want no part of the truth but hopefully we can educate them. The same thing happened in the thread where SB16 was discussed extensively. It took many pages and many insults, but they were finally convinced why Northams Assault weapons ban was stupid.

So you do support universal background checks now? That's great.

When have I not supported background checks? I would tell you to keep up, but I suspect you are just being disingenuous or trying to save some face.

You support universal background checks? Great!

Yeah, most gun owners do sweetheart. Again, please try to keep up or disengage from the discussion.

You should check in with your buddies from the past few pages. They openly do NOT support UBC. Try to keep up!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The "open NICS to private sellers" suggestion has seemingly driven off the anti-gunners like a crucifix to a vampire.

I guess they don't really care so much about the background checks, as creating a gun registry from second-hand gun sales. That seems to be the real goal for them.


As usual, they lie to conceal their real goals.

Yeah. They usually want no part of the truth but hopefully we can educate them. The same thing happened in the thread where SB16 was discussed extensively. It took many pages and many insults, but they were finally convinced why Northams Assault weapons ban was stupid.

So you do support universal background checks now? That's great.

When have I not supported background checks? I would tell you to keep up, but I suspect you are just being disingenuous or trying to save some face.

You support universal background checks? Great!

Yeah, most gun owners do sweetheart. Again, please try to keep up or disengage from the discussion.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The "open NICS to private sellers" suggestion has seemingly driven off the anti-gunners like a crucifix to a vampire.

I guess they don't really care so much about the background checks, as creating a gun registry from second-hand gun sales. That seems to be the real goal for them.


As usual, they lie to conceal their real goals.

Yeah. They usually want no part of the truth but hopefully we can educate them. The same thing happened in the thread where SB16 was discussed extensively. It took many pages and many insults, but they were finally convinced why Northams Assault weapons ban was stupid.

So you do support universal background checks now? That's great.

When have I not supported background checks? I would tell you to keep up, but I suspect you are just being disingenuous or trying to save some face.

You support universal background checks? Great!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've built guns 100% from scratch. Just blocks of aluminum, steel rod, plastic and wood. I have manual and automated machine tools in my workshop that can turn a shape drawn on a bar napkin into a chunk of metal that is part of a gun.



How are you going to prevent me from making guns? And ammunition.

You can't.

Guns will always exist. I'll see to it.

It might make more sense, if you feel unsafe and threatened, to just move to a safer neighborhood.

I thought it was frowned upon among liberals for people to leave a neighborhood because it's "unsafe", isn't that a code word for white flight?

I live in a condo in Annandale (I rent it) and my neighbors are very diverse. In my building there are a few white people, a few Asian people, a few Hispanic people, a few Black people (some African Americans, some not), a few older people, and a few kids. I've lived here for years and there has never been any significant crime in my building or the complex, well, one time a neighbor was missing an Amazon package but I think it turned out someone had kept it in their place for safekeeping until they got home. I have no idea whether anyone has a gun but I do know that I have never felt a need for one, not just here but in my whole life. I do not live in neighborhoods where one might need a gun to protect the family or their possessions. That's not to say it couldn't happen, but the likelihood is almost zero. It has nothing to do with "white flight" it has to do with choosing where you live carefully based on crime statistics among other things. Anyone can do it, even you!

I guarantee you that at least several of your neighbors are gun owners.

You might be right, I acknowledge that there are crazy people everywhere, no matter how sane and normal they might appear at a glance.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've built guns 100% from scratch. Just blocks of aluminum, steel rod, plastic and wood. I have manual and automated machine tools in my workshop that can turn a shape drawn on a bar napkin into a chunk of metal that is part of a gun.



How are you going to prevent me from making guns? And ammunition.

You can't.

Guns will always exist. I'll see to it.

OK, and? Want me to whip up a special "STAY BACK - I'M FEARFUL" sign on a CNC machine for you? You can hang it over your door so the scary people will stay away.

You like a nine year old.

Projecting?
"How are you going to prevent me from making guns? You can't."

Spoken like a self-centered brat.

DP

Who is the REAL brat though? Is it the person who simply does as they wish?

Or is it the person who bestows upon themselves the authority to tell others what they can and can't do?


I tend to favor those who do as they please.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've built guns 100% from scratch. Just blocks of aluminum, steel rod, plastic and wood. I have manual and automated machine tools in my workshop that can turn a shape drawn on a bar napkin into a chunk of metal that is part of a gun.



How are you going to prevent me from making guns? And ammunition.

You can't.

Guns will always exist. I'll see to it.

OK, and? Want me to whip up a special "STAY BACK - I'M FEARFUL" sign on a CNC machine for you? You can hang it over your door so the scary people will stay away.

You like a nine year old.

Projecting?
"How are you going to prevent me from making guns? You can't."

Spoken like a self-centered brat.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've built guns 100% from scratch. Just blocks of aluminum, steel rod, plastic and wood. I have manual and automated machine tools in my workshop that can turn a shape drawn on a bar napkin into a chunk of metal that is part of a gun.



How are you going to prevent me from making guns? And ammunition.

You can't.

Guns will always exist. I'll see to it.

OK, and? Want me to whip up a special "STAY BACK - I'M FEARFUL" sign on a CNC machine for you? You can hang it over your door so the scary people will stay away.

You like a nine year old.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've built guns 100% from scratch. Just blocks of aluminum, steel rod, plastic and wood. I have manual and automated machine tools in my workshop that can turn a shape drawn on a bar napkin into a chunk of metal that is part of a gun.



How are you going to prevent me from making guns? And ammunition.

You can't.

Guns will always exist. I'll see to it.

It might make more sense, if you feel unsafe and threatened, to just move to a safer neighborhood.

I thought it was frowned upon among liberals for people to leave a neighborhood because it's "unsafe", isn't that a code word for white flight?

I live in a condo in Annandale (I rent it) and my neighbors are very diverse. In my building there are a few white people, a few Asian people, a few Hispanic people, a few Black people (some African Americans, some not), a few older people, and a few kids. I've lived here for years and there has never been any significant crime in my building or the complex, well, one time a neighbor was missing an Amazon package but I think it turned out someone had kept it in their place for safekeeping until they got home. I have no idea whether anyone has a gun but I do know that I have never felt a need for one, not just here but in my whole life. I do not live in neighborhoods where one might need a gun to protect the family or their possessions. That's not to say it couldn't happen, but the likelihood is almost zero. It has nothing to do with "white flight" it has to do with choosing where you live carefully based on crime statistics among other things. Anyone can do it, even you!

I guarantee you that at least several of your neighbors are gun owners.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've built guns 100% from scratch. Just blocks of aluminum, steel rod, plastic and wood. I have manual and automated machine tools in my workshop that can turn a shape drawn on a bar napkin into a chunk of metal that is part of a gun.



How are you going to prevent me from making guns? And ammunition.

You can't.

Guns will always exist. I'll see to it.

OK, and? Want me to whip up a special "STAY BACK - I'M FEARFUL" sign on a CNC machine for you? You can hang it over your door so the scary people will stay away.