Anonymous wrote:A bit off topic, but from the Duggar instagram.

If you wondered why people claimed that the best thing you can do to be environmentally conscious and help the planet, is to not have kids (or not have many kids), I present this photo as evidence. All those styrofoam plates in a landfill, and this is probably a week's worth of plates and plastic cutlery, maybe. It's simple. Having more kids means more stuff and trash and use of resources to make all that stuff and trash, and the growth cannot continue exponentially.

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Anonymous wrote:Since when did fondling and molesting become appropriately described with the word "MISTAKE"????? OMG

Because he was a child himself when he did this. He wasn't 40 he was 15. Kids make mistakes

A 15 year old knows to not touch his sisters genitals. This was not a mistake, he didnt fall into her gentials.

A 14 year old who is raised in a healthy environment knows not to touch his sisters genitals. People are forgetting the environment Josh was raised in. Yes, I know, not everyone raised in a similar environment touches his sister, however I don't think we are dealing with garden variety molestation here. Also the Duggars we see today are a sanitized more liberal (yes liberal) version than the one Josh experienced growing up. If you watch the early specials (not the tv show) or read accounts from those who escaped the Cult of Gothard, it was an oppressive regime of lining up in your matching outfits and towing the line. Living in a tiny space and not being allowed out from under the watch of your parents as a normal hormonal teenage boy. A boy who has been told even looking at a woman in sin - see their policy of saying "Nike" when a woman is around so that the boys avert or cover their eyes.

Yes, this is a horrible horrible situation. Yes, the Duggar parents handled it wrong. Yes, what the girls experienced and likely had to bury deep inside is worse. However Josh is the product of his environment and was at the mercy of his parents when this happened. He doesn't think like you or I do, I think all the cries of "hes a child molester! hes a pedophile!" are doing so because they dislike the Duggar's politics and not looking at the situation Josh was and still is in. Having empathy works both ways. Everyone who hates the Duggars for not believing and having empathy as they do should think about having a little bit of empathy and understanding themselves.

This is not a simple cut and dry case, this is a man who was raised in a sexually repressive, oppressive and abusive cult. Who continues in his parents footsteps because he was told daily growing up that if he didn't he would burn and suffer in hell. Who needed therapy as a teenager and was denied it.

^^this. It's definitely not cut and dry.

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Anonymous wrote:I am the PP who has been arguing about the victims' privacy rights over the last couple of pages. I just wanted to make i clear that I don't have any allegiance to the Duggars. I don't care for them, their parenting, their fame-whoring or their fundamentalist religious practices. You can support the rights of the victims without defending the choices of Josh, Michelle and Jim Bob.

I believe making this national news will have a negative effect on Josh Duggar's victims and on any other victims who will see this and decide not to take the risk of coming forward. This is about the fundamental aspects of violation that come with being a victim of sexual assault. Rape culture is a separate issue.

These victims never came forward, and never would have. But if the publicity convinces any of them, or other girls in their situation, that they are victims instead of to blame, then that's positive. As it is, they've been told for years that any sort of sexual molestation is both their fault and reduces their purity. And boys are told that seeing a girl or woman takes away any self-control they may have.

Anonymous wrote:I am the PP who has been arguing about the victims' privacy rights over the last couple of pages. I just wanted to make i clear that I don't have any allegiance to the Duggars. I don't care for them, their parenting, their fame-whoring or their fundamentalist religious practices. You can support the rights of the victims without defending the choices of Josh, Michelle and Jim Bob.

I believe making this national news will have a negative effect on Josh Duggar's victims and on any other victims who will see this and decide not to take the risk of coming forward. This is about the fundamental aspects of violation that come with being a victim of sexual assault. Rape culture is a separate issue.

Anonymous wrote:I always said the Duggars were freaks. Now we know they are sick freaks.

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Anonymous wrote:What would have been acceptable in this situation?

He goes to juvenile detention but returns home to the same young girls he molested? He gets married off and ends up with two daughters of his own? This situation is sad all around.

He was repressed and his parents were and still are part of a belief system that children are gifts from God. If they turned him in would they have lost all of the children in the home?

This is what people are refusing to see in their blind blanket hatred for all things christian and conservative.

I am Christian and conservative and strongly believe that fundamentalism is harmful, to both men and women, boys and girls. Their extremely repressive, abusive, misogynistic lifestyle enables this, as should be obvious.

PP: Right. That isn't what was in question or even being disputed. It is the gleeful dancing upon the grave and embellishing of what are already horrible facts that some people, myself including, are finding distasteful and even hypocritical.

I haven't seen a lot of glee here, but you certainly have made your disapproval known. I hope you disapprove just as strongly of the Duggar's negligence and hypocrisy--making profits off of a wholesome family image that was at least partially a facade.

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Anonymous wrote:What would have been acceptable in this situation?

He goes to juvenile detention but returns home to the same young girls he molested? He gets married off and ends up with two daughters of his own? This situation is sad all around.

He was repressed and his parents were and still are part of a belief system that children are gifts from God. If they turned him in would they have lost all of the children in the home?

This is what people are refusing to see in their blind blanket hatred for all things christian and conservative.

I am Christian and conservative and strongly believe that fundamentalism is harmful, to both men and women, boys and girls. Their extremely repressive, abusive, misogynistic lifestyle enables this, as should be obvious.

PP: Right. That isn't what was in question or even being disputed. It is the gleeful dancing upon the grave and embellishing of what are already horrible facts that some people, myself including, are finding distasteful and even hypocritical.

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Anonymous wrote:You lose your right to privacy when you molest children. And while I'm sorry if the girls are embarrassed, this is the best shot they have to heal - hopefully they will see what he did was wrong and there are consequences. And making it public will help protect others.

It's not Josh's loss of privacy that was concerning to me. It was the loss of privacy for the very young victims. Maybe you've never been sexually assaulted, but I can assure you seeing it on the national news is not a step towards healing. I do not believe it was made public out of concern for the safety of others.

You are wrong. These girls have NOTHING TO BE ASHAMED OF and implying that their privacy is more important than the molester facing consequences is exactly what perpetuates this type of abuse and exactly how the family kept it private. Further it is my bope that their loss of privacy may protect Josh's children and others since this pattern of behavior does not go way and is compulsive.