Anonymous
09/14/2022 11:34
Subject: Good schools EoTP
The charter/DCPS dynamic is not too hard to understand. When offered choice, most parents are going to choose the school that will best serve their family.
WOTP, if you are looking for free education, you go to your local IB. The wide view is that the IB DCPS options are much stronger than any of the charters. This goes for ES, MS, and HS. Most WOTP parents are blissfully unaware of how the lottery even works. We live WOTP and I know of exactly two families who send their kids to charters.
EOTP, if you are IB for Brent, Maury, and increasingly LT, you go to your IB. The families at JO and Watkins are mixed. Everyone else tries for charters and goes IB only if they strike out in the lottery and would rather try their IB than move. Why is that? Because the charters provide a better education.
It is not because EOTP families are more dedicated to immersion or any of the other specialized things that charters sometimes offer. It is also not because the charters are more convenient to Hill families than they are to NW families. It is simply because their IB options are not as strong.
The situation has little to do with charter schools (except that they provided a bandaid to HIll families with poor IB options who wanted to stay in their houses.). it has everything to do with DCPS. Very few families would choose a far-flung charter with a strong neighborhood school down the street and the situation WOTP illustrates that well.
WOTP, if you are looking for free education, you go to your local IB. The wide view is that the IB DCPS options are much stronger than any of the charters. This goes for ES, MS, and HS. Most WOTP parents are blissfully unaware of how the lottery even works. We live WOTP and I know of exactly two families who send their kids to charters.
EOTP, if you are IB for Brent, Maury, and increasingly LT, you go to your IB. The families at JO and Watkins are mixed. Everyone else tries for charters and goes IB only if they strike out in the lottery and would rather try their IB than move. Why is that? Because the charters provide a better education.
It is not because EOTP families are more dedicated to immersion or any of the other specialized things that charters sometimes offer. It is also not because the charters are more convenient to Hill families than they are to NW families. It is simply because their IB options are not as strong.
The situation has little to do with charter schools (except that they provided a bandaid to HIll families with poor IB options who wanted to stay in their houses.). it has everything to do with DCPS. Very few families would choose a far-flung charter with a strong neighborhood school down the street and the situation WOTP illustrates that well.
Anonymous
09/14/2022 11:28
Subject: Good schools EoTP
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:to be clear, dc has a very very large number of charter schools that are not just basis and latin. those schools and the system of school choice more generally arguably siphon off public education funds too.
Neither the system nor the schools "siphon off" anything. Those schools can't get a dime if parents in DC don't decide with free will and based on available information to send their kids there. That's the part you and others seem to be missing. 50k kids' parents have decided that a charter school is a better option for their kids. And yet the answer from people like you is not that DCPS needs to do a better job. Not that an absence of true AP or advanced classes is causing an issue. Not that a bloated Central that wastes money and resources needs to be truly overhauled. Not that DCPS decided in their infinite wisdom to renovate the HS buildings before the ES buildings. No, apparently the problem is that, faced with available information, parents are choosing charters. The subtext from people like you is that somehow 50k kids are getting fooled and that charters aren't a better choice. OK, stick with that and see where it gets you. Howl at the moon and blame the customer for making the "wrong choice" without bothering to look inward for even a moment.
It's both.
I live on the Hill and known plenty of parents who are IB for fantastic schools like Maury and L-T but still choose to send their kids to charters like Two Rivers for some reason. We also know parents who drive 40 minutes round trip every day to charters like Lee and CMI rather than send their kids to their IB DCPS like Watkins or JO Wilson, which are not as good as Maury or L-T but also not failing schools.
I think often UMC parents get enamored with charters when they are doing the PK lottery and convince themselves that charters are de facto better than their IB school before they really even know much about the schools. They are often persuaded by brand new facilities or certain programming that is targeted specifically at things UMC parents value but do not actually make these schools better. There is sometimes a glow of elitism on many charters because you can only attend by doing well in the lottery, and I think this skews many parents thinking.
I don't mean to dismiss the very real and valid reasons many families choose charters. These boards have gone into great detail to explain why many families EOTP adopt a "charters or bust" approach for MS and HS, and if you know anything about the EOTP MS/HS situation, you wouldn't judge them for it. There also are truly failing elementary schools in this city and charters give families at those schools a fighting chance. But again, that's why it's both. Charters offer a vital alternative to many families with terrible IB options. They also absolutely siphon off kids who would do well in DCPS schools and whose seat dollars and parental contributions/involvement would be a major benefit to DCPS schools.
Charters in DC are necessary and also likely make it harder to improve DCPS. It's a frustrating situation.
You are wrong. If there were no viable charters, families would move out of the city or go private, just like they did pre-charter establishment.
You also don’t seem to get that some DCPS schools might look maybe OK and not failing but they spend most of their time teaching to the test. It’’s terrible and no way to learn.
You really think that if Two Rivers wasn't there, a family IB for Maury would instead go to private school or move? That's nonsensical.
The point is that there are plenty of people who are IB for good or even great DCPS schools but choose charters for a variety of reasons. Thus, yes, charters do siphon off students from DCPS. You may think that's okay if your goal is diversity of school choice. But if your goal is really strong public schools, that diversity of choice can undermine your goal.
Anonymous
09/14/2022 11:18
Subject: Re:Good schools EoTP
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Here is the bottom line for MS EOTP: Basis, Latin, DCI, private, or move. That’s it folks.
::Ida B. Wells has entered the chat::
(but I realize this thread is mostly Cap Hill parents griping, so we're not on your radar.)
Someone who dismisses SH out of hand is not going to Wells...
I'm not asking anyone to come to Wells. Just saying your "bottom line" is incorrect. Wells has great buy-in in Ward 4 and is absolutely viewed as a viable option by UMC parents, the only ones people on this thread care about.
Sorry, I wasn't actually defending the previous post. The point was that if that PP's "bottom line" dismissed SH out of hand, they weren't heading to Wells... nothing to do with a Hill focus on not.
Anonymous
09/14/2022 11:08
Subject: Good schools EoTP
Wells is the neighborhood middle school. The fact that it's named after a black icon doesn't mean it has something Tucker Carlson and you want to huff about in its DNA.
Anonymous
09/14/2022 10:34
Subject: Re:Good schools EoTP
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Here is the bottom line for MS EOTP: Basis, Latin, DCI, private, or move. That’s it folks.
::Ida B. Wells has entered the chat::
(but I realize this thread is mostly Cap Hill parents griping, so we're not on your radar.)
Someone who dismisses SH out of hand is not going to Wells...
I'm not asking anyone to come to Wells. Just saying your "bottom line" is incorrect. Wells has great buy-in in Ward 4 and is absolutely viewed as a viable option by UMC parents, the only ones people on this thread care about.
Not interested in buying into a brand new middle school with absolutely no track record, especially one with a social justice focus.
You seem very confused. Good luck out there.
Anonymous
09/14/2022 10:30
Subject: Re:Good schools EoTP
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Here is the bottom line for MS EOTP: Basis, Latin, DCI, private, or move. That’s it folks.
::Ida B. Wells has entered the chat::
(but I realize this thread is mostly Cap Hill parents griping, so we're not on your radar.)
Someone who dismisses SH out of hand is not going to Wells...
I'm not asking anyone to come to Wells. Just saying your "bottom line" is incorrect. Wells has great buy-in in Ward 4 and is absolutely viewed as a viable option by UMC parents, the only ones people on this thread care about.
Not interested in buying into a brand new middle school with absolutely no track record, especially one with a social justice focus.
Anonymous
09/14/2022 10:13
Subject: Good schools EoTP
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:to be clear, dc has a very very large number of charter schools that are not just basis and latin. those schools and the system of school choice more generally arguably siphon off public education funds too.
Neither the system nor the schools "siphon off" anything. Those schools can't get a dime if parents in DC don't decide with free will and based on available information to send their kids there. That's the part you and others seem to be missing. 50k kids' parents have decided that a charter school is a better option for their kids. And yet the answer from people like you is not that DCPS needs to do a better job. Not that an absence of true AP or advanced classes is causing an issue. Not that a bloated Central that wastes money and resources needs to be truly overhauled. Not that DCPS decided in their infinite wisdom to renovate the HS buildings before the ES buildings. No, apparently the problem is that, faced with available information, parents are choosing charters. The subtext from people like you is that somehow 50k kids are getting fooled and that charters aren't a better choice. OK, stick with that and see where it gets you. Howl at the moon and blame the customer for making the "wrong choice" without bothering to look inward for even a moment.
It's both.
I live on the Hill and known plenty of parents who are IB for fantastic schools like Maury and L-T but still choose to send their kids to charters like Two Rivers for some reason. We also know parents who drive 40 minutes round trip every day to charters like Lee and CMI rather than send their kids to their IB DCPS like Watkins or JO Wilson, which are not as good as Maury or L-T but also not failing schools.
I think often UMC parents get enamored with charters when they are doing the PK lottery and convince themselves that charters are de facto better than their IB school before they really even know much about the schools. They are often persuaded by brand new facilities or certain programming that is targeted specifically at things UMC parents value but do not actually make these schools better. There is sometimes a glow of elitism on many charters because you can only attend by doing well in the lottery, and I think this skews many parents thinking.
I don't mean to dismiss the very real and valid reasons many families choose charters. These boards have gone into great detail to explain why many families EOTP adopt a "charters or bust" approach for MS and HS, and if you know anything about the EOTP MS/HS situation, you wouldn't judge them for it. There also are truly failing elementary schools in this city and charters give families at those schools a fighting chance. But again, that's why it's both. Charters offer a vital alternative to many families with terrible IB options. They also absolutely siphon off kids who would do well in DCPS schools and whose seat dollars and parental contributions/involvement would be a major benefit to DCPS schools.
Charters in DC are necessary and also likely make it harder to improve DCPS. It's a frustrating situation.
You are wrong. If there were no viable charters, families would move out of the city or go private, just like they did pre-charter establishment.
You also don’t seem to get that some DCPS schools might look maybe OK and not failing but they spend most of their time teaching to the test. It’’s terrible and no way to learn.
Anonymous
09/14/2022 10:08
Subject: Good schools EoTP
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:to be clear, dc has a very very large number of charter schools that are not just basis and latin. those schools and the system of school choice more generally arguably siphon off public education funds too.
Neither the system nor the schools "siphon off" anything. Those schools can't get a dime if parents in DC don't decide with free will and based on available information to send their kids there. That's the part you and others seem to be missing. 50k kids' parents have decided that a charter school is a better option for their kids. And yet the answer from people like you is not that DCPS needs to do a better job. Not that an absence of true AP or advanced classes is causing an issue. Not that a bloated Central that wastes money and resources needs to be truly overhauled. Not that DCPS decided in their infinite wisdom to renovate the HS buildings before the ES buildings. No, apparently the problem is that, faced with available information, parents are choosing charters. The subtext from people like you is that somehow 50k kids are getting fooled and that charters aren't a better choice. OK, stick with that and see where it gets you. Howl at the moon and blame the customer for making the "wrong choice" without bothering to look inward for even a moment.
So spot on.
Anonymous
09/14/2022 10:03
Subject: Good schools EoTP
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:to be clear, dc has a very very large number of charter schools that are not just basis and latin. those schools and the system of school choice more generally arguably siphon off public education funds too.
Neither the system nor the schools "siphon off" anything. Those schools can't get a dime if parents in DC don't decide with free will and based on available information to send their kids there. That's the part you and others seem to be missing. 50k kids' parents have decided that a charter school is a better option for their kids. And yet the answer from people like you is not that DCPS needs to do a better job. Not that an absence of true AP or advanced classes is causing an issue. Not that a bloated Central that wastes money and resources needs to be truly overhauled. Not that DCPS decided in their infinite wisdom to renovate the HS buildings before the ES buildings. No, apparently the problem is that, faced with available information, parents are choosing charters. The subtext from people like you is that somehow 50k kids are getting fooled and that charters aren't a better choice. OK, stick with that and see where it gets you. Howl at the moon and blame the customer for making the "wrong choice" without bothering to look inward for even a moment.
It's both.
I live on the Hill and known plenty of parents who are IB for fantastic schools like Maury and L-T but still choose to send their kids to charters like Two Rivers for some reason. We also know parents who drive 40 minutes round trip every day to charters like Lee and CMI rather than send their kids to their IB DCPS like Watkins or JO Wilson, which are not as good as Maury or L-T but also not failing schools.
I think often UMC parents get enamored with charters when they are doing the PK lottery and convince themselves that charters are de facto better than their IB school before they really even know much about the schools. They are often persuaded by brand new facilities or certain programming that is targeted specifically at things UMC parents value but do not actually make these schools better. There is sometimes a glow of elitism on many charters because you can only attend by doing well in the lottery, and I think this skews many parents thinking.
I don't mean to dismiss the very real and valid reasons many families choose charters. These boards have gone into great detail to explain why many families EOTP adopt a "charters or bust" approach for MS and HS, and if you know anything about the EOTP MS/HS situation, you wouldn't judge them for it. There also are truly failing elementary schools in this city and charters give families at those schools a fighting chance. But again, that's why it's both. Charters offer a vital alternative to many families with terrible IB options. They also absolutely siphon off kids who would do well in DCPS schools and whose seat dollars and parental contributions/involvement would be a major benefit to DCPS schools.
Charters in DC are necessary and also likely make it harder to improve DCPS. It's a frustrating situation.
100%! Our school has two IB 2R dropouts starting 1st grade this year and, chatting with their parents, it's clear that they just sort of assumed that IBs were less desirable than charters because you have to win the lottery to get into the latter. No joke, one little boy started in the second week when his parents looked at the PARCC scores and suddenly realized for the *first time* that our IB's PARCC scores are much better to 2RY. Everything about that knowledge gap/decision to pull a kid mid-year for just that reason/etc is short of shocking to me, but it really showed just how little research some UMC well-educated Hill parents do before jumping head first into a charter school.
Anonymous
09/14/2022 10:02
Subject: Re:Good schools EoTP
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Here is the bottom line for MS EOTP: Basis, Latin, DCI, private, or move. That’s it folks.
::Ida B. Wells has entered the chat::
(but I realize this thread is mostly Cap Hill parents griping, so we're not on your radar.)
Someone who dismisses SH out of hand is not going to Wells...
I'm not asking anyone to come to Wells. Just saying your "bottom line" is incorrect. Wells has great buy-in in Ward 4 and is absolutely viewed as a viable option by UMC parents, the only ones people on this thread care about.
Anonymous
09/14/2022 10:00
Subject: Re:Good schools EoTP
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Here is the bottom line for MS EOTP: Basis, Latin, DCI, private, or move. That’s it folks.
::Ida B. Wells has entered the chat::
(but I realize this thread is mostly Cap Hill parents griping, so we're not on your radar.)
Someone who dismisses SH out of hand is not going to Wells...
Anonymous
09/14/2022 09:58
Subject: Re:Good schools EoTP
Anonymous wrote:Here is the bottom line for MS EOTP: Basis, Latin, DCI, private, or move. That’s it folks.
::Ida B. Wells has entered the chat::
(but I realize this thread is mostly Cap Hill parents griping, so we're not on your radar.)
Anonymous
09/14/2022 09:56
Subject: Good schools EoTP
I just want to say we send our kids to Maury and LOVE it. Great school community. But we are very stuck in terms of whether to continue them in EH -- the CH problem as many have said is middle and high school.
Anonymous
09/14/2022 09:29
Subject: Good schools EoTP
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:to be clear, dc has a very very large number of charter schools that are not just basis and latin. those schools and the system of school choice more generally arguably siphon off public education funds too.
Neither the system nor the schools "siphon off" anything. Those schools can't get a dime if parents in DC don't decide with free will and based on available information to send their kids there. That's the part you and others seem to be missing. 50k kids' parents have decided that a charter school is a better option for their kids. And yet the answer from people like you is not that DCPS needs to do a better job. Not that an absence of true AP or advanced classes is causing an issue. Not that a bloated Central that wastes money and resources needs to be truly overhauled. Not that DCPS decided in their infinite wisdom to renovate the HS buildings before the ES buildings. No, apparently the problem is that, faced with available information, parents are choosing charters. The subtext from people like you is that somehow 50k kids are getting fooled and that charters aren't a better choice. OK, stick with that and see where it gets you. Howl at the moon and blame the customer for making the "wrong choice" without bothering to look inward for even a moment.
It's both.
I live on the Hill and known plenty of parents who are IB for fantastic schools like Maury and L-T but still choose to send their kids to charters like Two Rivers for some reason. We also know parents who drive 40 minutes round trip every day to charters like Lee and CMI rather than send their kids to their IB DCPS like Watkins or JO Wilson, which are not as good as Maury or L-T but also not failing schools.
I think often UMC parents get enamored with charters when they are doing the PK lottery and convince themselves that charters are de facto better than their IB school before they really even know much about the schools. They are often persuaded by brand new facilities or certain programming that is targeted specifically at things UMC parents value but do not actually make these schools better. There is sometimes a glow of elitism on many charters because you can only attend by doing well in the lottery, and I think this skews many parents thinking.
I don't mean to dismiss the very real and valid reasons many families choose charters. These boards have gone into great detail to explain why many families EOTP adopt a "charters or bust" approach for MS and HS, and if you know anything about the EOTP MS/HS situation, you wouldn't judge them for it. There also are truly failing elementary schools in this city and charters give families at those schools a fighting chance. But again, that's why it's both. Charters offer a vital alternative to many families with terrible IB options. They also absolutely siphon off kids who would do well in DCPS schools and whose seat dollars and parental contributions/involvement would be a major benefit to DCPS schools.
Charters in DC are necessary and also likely make it harder to improve DCPS. It's a frustrating situation.
Anonymous
09/14/2022 09:10
Subject: Re:Good schools EoTP
+100