Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Assuming you are really a doctor, show me the evidence, what was the sample size, who did the survey, who was reporting the data?


The numbers are overall low, but 7x higher in women among those numbers. I do not have time to do your research for you, feel free to look it up.

Translation: I pulled up the 7x number out of my ear and cannot back it up.

Here you go:
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/11/091110105401.htm

Men Leave: Separation And Divorce Far More Common When The Wife Is The Patient
A woman is six times more likely to be separated or divorced soon after a diagnosis of cancer or multiple sclerosis than if a man in the relationship is the patient, according to a study that examined the role gender played in so-called "partner abandonment." The study also found that the longer the marriage the more likely it would remain intact

Interesting. What they don’t say is who initiated the divorce. It’s possible that some significant portion of those divorces were initiated by the women, since women initiate the majority of divorces.

Furthermore, people shouldn’t put that much stock in one study. There is a lot of research that reveals plenty of errors when you do some digging. The results don’t surprise me, but I think they give a misleading impression. I personally know many couples in this situation and they remained together.

Anonymous wrote:

Assuming you are really a doctor, show me the evidence, what was the sample size, who did the survey, who was reporting the data?


The numbers are overall low, but 7x higher in women among those numbers. I do not have time to do your research for you, feel free to look it up.

Translation: I pulled up the 7x number out of my ear and cannot back it up.

Here you go:
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/11/091110105401.htm

Men Leave: Separation And Divorce Far More Common When The Wife Is The Patient
A woman is six times more likely to be separated or divorced soon after a diagnosis of cancer or multiple sclerosis than if a man in the relationship is the patient, according to a study that examined the role gender played in so-called "partner abandonment." The study also found that the longer the marriage the more likely it would remain intact

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DH has a cancer he will live with for the rest of his life. He is immunocompromised and there are other side effects from

Oops.. side effects from the meds. It is not easy for us to have a romantic relationship (it is at times non-existent) but I stay because he is a good man and a good father. I love him, maybe differently than before, but this is what we sign up for when we get married.

A good example of how women react vs. men react. This DW isn't complaining and instead talking about how her DH is a good man/father vs. OP's original post (I know he recanted a bit in later post).

DP and not the PP to whom you are responding. Give the OP a break. He said he posted hastily and recognizes how it came across, and regrets that. Caregiving is phenomenally difficult. Caregivers sometimes have feelings that are not ideally kind and loving, even if they love their spouses deeply. The caregivers who reach out and ask for help, which OP is doing, and who admit to their own conflicted feelings and talk about them instead of letting feelings fester--those are the caregivers who will stay stronger, for longer.

Until you've been in the shoes of a caregiver for years, you have zero legitimacy to bash the OP.

It is also simply nonsense to lump entire genders together, as in "how women react vs. men react." Unless you have surveyed all women and all men on this exact topic, you're just blowing hot air, or projecting your own anger about something else onto this individual situation. Yes, I know a doctor upthread said women are 7x more likely to get left after a diagnosis, but that does not magically translate into "all women good and true, all men bad and disloyal." You have lost sight of individuals. And FYI, in case you decide to try to snark that I'm a DH defending the OP -- nope, I'm a DW.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Sorry, but complaining your wife who has metastatic cancer won't have sex with you is not a legit complaint.

It would be one thing if OP has posted in the Health forum looking for advice on how he can improve his wife's health. But complaining that he's not getting laid and that she's not doing yoga and Pilates (because of course he knows better than he doctors!) when she's literally had to fight for her life is not legitimate, it's selfish and whiny.

You are horrible.

Who do you think is taking care of the kids and the house while helping her fight for her life? What you do not realize is that you are blinded by sexism.

NP. What sexism? This point would be valid even if a wife was on here asking a similar question and the husband had cancer.

BS. The point is, she's in a position where if she's NED, she's probably not on active treatment and can at least engage with her husband and kids. I'm not talking about sex, I'm talking about some sort of engagement in life. I get "fighting for her life", I'm a recent BC cancer survivor. But she also has some responsibility to her family, including attempting to manage her health in some way.

So I'm the pp you are responding to. Nothing you wrote speaks to sexism, The point is that some of the point that others have written about would remain regardless of the sex of the person. I also think that OP's wife is likely somewhat depressed and so there are things to be investigated with the wife's doctor. BTW, stage IV cancer in general means it's metastasized and so there's a reason to be concerned. There are a lot of new therapies out there and so that's a good news but it's definitely a more progressed stage of disease.

I'm the BS PP above and not sure who I'm responding to now. I agree that this applies regardless of the sex of the cancer patient or the caregiver. I also agree that OP's wife is depressed. I'm just taken aback by the knee jerk response (perhaps it wasn't yours) that the OPs response to his wife's mental state right now is selfish and based on his needs only. I do believe, though, that she has some responsibility to get the help she needs (mentally, emotionally, etc) in dealing with a Stage IV diagnosis, as she's not alone in this fight,--she has a spouse and children. Her caregiver spouse has every right to identify risks and try to secure help for her, himself and their kids. For the record, I'm very familiar with what Stage IV cancer means. I'm a recent BC survivor and spend a considerable amount of my life preventing recurrence and dealing with the emotional and mental burdens that accompany a cancer diagnosis and treatment.

I'm the pp that you are responding to (I wrote that comment about what sexism and you answered my question about sexism well. I agree with most of your comments, especially that all should get help. One thing I will disagree is that sometimes someone who is going through depression doesn't realize it and so won't seek help (responding to your comment about wife's responsibility to help herself). Therefore, I think OP should seek help for himself but also help his wife as well.

PP you are responding to, and I agree with you completely. And for this reason, I don’t think people should be beating up the OP for taking it upon himself to help her.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DH has a cancer he will live with for the rest of his life. He is immunocompromised and there are other side effects from

Oops.. side effects from the meds. It is not easy for us to have a romantic relationship (it is at times non-existent) but I stay because he is a good man and a good father. I love him, maybe differently than before, but this is what we sign up for when we get married.

A good example of how women react vs. men react. This DW isn't complaining and instead talking about how her DH is a good man/father vs. OP's original post (I know he recanted a bit in later post).

Anonymous wrote:My DH has a cancer he will live with for the rest of his life. He is immunocompromised and there are other side effects from

Oops.. side effects from the meds. It is not easy for us to have a romantic relationship (it is at times non-existent) but I stay because he is a good man and a good father. I love him, maybe differently than before, but this is what we sign up for when we get married.

My DH has a cancer he will live with for the rest of his life. He is immunocompromised and there are other side effects from

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Sorry, but complaining your wife who has metastatic cancer won't have sex with you is not a legit complaint.

It would be one thing if OP has posted in the Health forum looking for advice on how he can improve his wife's health. But complaining that he's not getting laid and that she's not doing yoga and Pilates (because of course he knows better than he doctors!) when she's literally had to fight for her life is not legitimate, it's selfish and whiny.

You are horrible.

Who do you think is taking care of the kids and the house while helping her fight for her life? What you do not realize is that you are blinded by sexism.

NP. What sexism? This point would be valid even if a wife was on here asking a similar question and the husband had cancer.

BS. The point is, she's in a position where if she's NED, she's probably not on active treatment and can at least engage with her husband and kids. I'm not talking about sex, I'm talking about some sort of engagement in life. I get "fighting for her life", I'm a recent BC cancer survivor. But she also has some responsibility to her family, including attempting to manage her health in some way.

So I'm the pp you are responding to. Nothing you wrote speaks to sexism, The point is that some of the point that others have written about would remain regardless of the sex of the person. I also think that OP's wife is likely somewhat depressed and so there are things to be investigated with the wife's doctor. BTW, stage IV cancer in general means it's metastasized and so there's a reason to be concerned. There are a lot of new therapies out there and so that's a good news but it's definitely a more progressed stage of disease.

I'm the BS PP above and not sure who I'm responding to now. I agree that this applies regardless of the sex of the cancer patient or the caregiver. I also agree that OP's wife is depressed. I'm just taken aback by the knee jerk response (perhaps it wasn't yours) that the OPs response to his wife's mental state right now is selfish and based on his needs only. I do believe, though, that she has some responsibility to get the help she needs (mentally, emotionally, etc) in dealing with a Stage IV diagnosis, as she's not alone in this fight,--she has a spouse and children. Her caregiver spouse has every right to identify risks and try to secure help for her, himself and their kids. For the record, I'm very familiar with what Stage IV cancer means. I'm a recent BC survivor and spend a considerable amount of my life preventing recurrence and dealing with the emotional and mental burdens that accompany a cancer diagnosis and treatment.

I'm the pp that you are responding to (I wrote that comment about what sexism and you answered my question about sexism well. I agree with most of your comments, especially that all should get help. One thing I will disagree is that sometimes someone who is going through depression doesn't realize it and so won't seek help (responding to your comment about wife's responsibility to help herself). Therefore, I think OP should seek help for himself but also help his wife as well.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Sorry, but complaining your wife who has metastatic cancer won't have sex with you is not a legit complaint.

It would be one thing if OP has posted in the Health forum looking for advice on how he can improve his wife's health. But complaining that he's not getting laid and that she's not doing yoga and Pilates (because of course he knows better than he doctors!) when she's literally had to fight for her life is not legitimate, it's selfish and whiny.

You are horrible.

Who do you think is taking care of the kids and the house while helping her fight for her life? What you do not realize is that you are blinded by sexism.

NP. What sexism? This point would be valid even if a wife was on here asking a similar question and the husband had cancer.

BS. The point is, she's in a position where if she's NED, she's probably not on active treatment and can at least engage with her husband and kids. I'm not talking about sex, I'm talking about some sort of engagement in life. I get "fighting for her life", I'm a recent BC cancer survivor. But she also has some responsibility to her family, including attempting to manage her health in some way.

So I'm the pp you are responding to. Nothing you wrote speaks to sexism, The point is that some of the point that others have written about would remain regardless of the sex of the person. I also think that OP's wife is likely somewhat depressed and so there are things to be investigated with the wife's doctor. BTW, stage IV cancer in general means it's metastasized and so there's a reason to be concerned. There are a lot of new therapies out there and so that's a good news but it's definitely a more progressed stage of disease.

I'm the BS PP above and not sure who I'm responding to now. I agree that this applies regardless of the sex of the cancer patient or the caregiver. I also agree that OP's wife is depressed. I'm just taken aback by the knee jerk response (perhaps it wasn't yours) that the OPs response to his wife's mental state right now is selfish and based on his needs only. I do believe, though, that she has some responsibility to get the help she needs (mentally, emotionally, etc) in dealing with a Stage IV diagnosis, as she's not alone in this fight,--she has a spouse and children. Her caregiver spouse has every right to identify risks and try to secure help for her, himself and their kids. For the record, I'm very familiar with what Stage IV cancer means. I'm a recent BC survivor and spend a considerable amount of my life preventing recurrence and dealing with the emotional and mental burdens that accompany a cancer diagnosis and treatment.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Sorry, but complaining your wife who has metastatic cancer won't have sex with you is not a legit complaint.

It would be one thing if OP has posted in the Health forum looking for advice on how he can improve his wife's health. But complaining that he's not getting laid and that she's not doing yoga and Pilates (because of course he knows better than he doctors!) when she's literally had to fight for her life is not legitimate, it's selfish and whiny.

You are horrible.

Who do you think is taking care of the kids and the house while helping her fight for her life? What you do not realize is that you are blinded by sexism.

NP. What sexism? This point would be valid even if a wife was on here asking a similar question and the husband had cancer.

BS. The point is, she's in a position where if she's NED, she's probably not on active treatment and can at least engage with her husband and kids. I'm not talking about sex, I'm talking about some sort of engagement in life. I get "fighting for her life", I'm a recent BC cancer survivor. But she also has some responsibility to her family, including attempting to manage her health in some way.

So I'm the pp you are responding to. Nothing you wrote speaks to sexism, The point is that some of the point that others have written about would remain regardless of the sex of the person. I also think that OP's wife is likely somewhat depressed and so there are things to be investigated with the wife's doctor. BTW, stage IV cancer in general means it's metastasized and so there's a reason to be concerned. There are a lot of new therapies out there and so that's a good news but it's definitely a more progressed stage of disease.

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Wow, quite a response. I get it that my post sounded really bad. I’m sorry. No one is talking about or even thinking about leaving the marriage. It is clear that even though my wife currently has no evidence of cancer the ongoing treatment continues to have a profound affect. I was simply asking if anyone has been through this, had similar treatments, and how can I do better. I admit I was frustrated last night about other issues and the way I described the situation really sounded like I was looking for a way out. I’m not. You are right, searching on line especially about medical issues can often lead to unreasonable expectations and trouble. Thanks for your responses, both those that point out my callousness and those that made suggestions.

You only care about your needs. Those medications can do a number on her body. She is best off divorced so she can find a supportive partner.

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Wow, quite a response. I get it that my post sounded really bad. I’m sorry. No one is talking about or even thinking about leaving the marriage. It is clear that even though my wife currently has no evidence of cancer the ongoing treatment continues to have a profound affect. I was simply asking if anyone has been through this, had similar treatments, and how can I do better. I admit I was frustrated last night about other issues and the way I described the situation really sounded like I was looking for a way out. I’m not. You are right, searching on line especially about medical issues can often lead to unreasonable expectations and trouble. Thanks for your responses, both those that point out my callousness and those that made suggestions.

OP, I am the BC survivor that has posted several times. I'm also a BC support mentor to patients undergoing treatment. I feel what you're going through, and thanks for clarifying your point, especially for the other PPs who rushed to judgment about an impending divorce. Cancer affects the caregiver immensely, and in a way that's not always recognized because so much attention is paid to the patient, rightfully so. Please look into support resources, online or otherwise. If you're in the DC area, Inova has a Life with Cancer Center in Fairfax and Fair Oaks (and possibly other locations) that offers counseling, classes, etc. They will take your concerns seriously (including how to support your wife at this time), unlike some of the nutters on here who haven't walked in your shoes and were quick to tell you how awful you are.

Anonymous wrote:NP here. there are a bunch of people who live on La-La land on this forum, and a few unnecessarily mean. the idea that a serious ilness does not have effect on marriages is a fairy tale. caring for a terminal patient is grusome, and when a diagnosis happens to a marriage that is already not going well, divorce is not uncommon. I had a family member with a terminal cancer who survived 7 years thanks to clinical trials instead of the 6 months she was given originally. she was not married or had a parner so no issue there but I got to know a little the community of people with the same ilness (they had an online support forum and met a medical congresses). being divorced was hardly uncommon unfortunatley for these patiences. I remember a young 28 woman who was about to get married and the fiance called off the wedding and left her after the woman's diagnosis.

for people who ask for proof,
https://www.webmd.com/cancer/news/20010512/cancer-cause-divorce-women

https://medium.com/@CancerBTTB/50-percent-of-couples-break-up-during-a-cancer-diagnosis-29133893975f

and plenty of other sources.

OP, sorry for the situation, it is very hard to help a person in your wife's situation, just disregard the mean and clueless responses. in addition to her illness, the drugs she is taking, she is also having psychological problems. her therapy should be comprehensive and help her in that sense as well. I would start with talking to your doctor, and possibly her doctor if you are allowed, without her, to discuss how you can best support her. you also need support for yourself, you cannot help your wife if you are not in good mental and physical shape either.

+1. No oncologist wants to expects a patient to go through the remainder of their life like this, disengaged and drinking every night. And most oncologists worth their degree can also see the importance of a healthy, well adjusted caregiver.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Wow, quite a response. I get it that my post sounded really bad. I’m sorry. No one is talking about or even thinking about leaving the marriage. It is clear that even though my wife currently has no evidence of cancer the ongoing treatment continues to have a profound affect. I was simply asking if anyone has been through this, had similar treatments, and how can I do better. I admit I was frustrated last night about other issues and the way I described the situation really sounded like I was looking for a way out. I’m not. You are right, searching on line especially about medical issues can often lead to unreasonable expectations and trouble. Thanks for your responses, both those that point out my callousness and those that made suggestions.

I didn't think your OP was bad at all but people on DCUM can be really nasty. Agree with the suggestion to go with her to her doctor and ask your questions, information online is often incorrect or does not contemplate the facts/circumstances of each individuals situation.

DP who posted above re: getting yourself therapy and finding a support group for spouses of cancer patients. I agree with this PP, once again, please go to the doctor with your wife and discuss this.

Glad to hear you're not thinking of leaving her. The vitriol you got was based on posters assuming you were ready to dump her or to ask for what DCUM idiotically calls a "hall pass" to find sex elsewhere. You sound like a much better guy than that!

Please find yourself help and get proactive about your specific concerns for DW. The alcohol every night might be fine or might not. Does her doctor know? Does she consume one smallish glass or maybe "just a bit more" or--? Is alcohol even OK with prednisone or other meds she may be taking? Does she not want to exercise because she fears it will only make her more tired and she can't handle the thought of being any more tired than she is? And so on.

Can the doctors help you find some form of cancer aftercare class you can take together? I know INOVA (in northern VA) used to have a lot of "patient and family education" workshops (one-time) and short-term classes about things like "life after cancer" or "living with cancer recovery" etc. that dealt with stuff like advice on nutrition, alcohol, exercise, etc. If you and she can do some of that, together, virtually or in person, you can be by her side to do whatever is recommended together, as a team. If you're not in northern VA, search around online. Large health/hospital systems usually all have these kinds of education and support resources. Look at organizations like the American Cancer Society too. If they don't have what you need, ask them who would. Ask them who's in your area who can help.

Whatever you do, remind your wife often that you love her, love her as she is, and you have her back. She may need reassurance that she's still loved AS a wife and not just seen as someone you have to take care of.

And every day, remind yourself that four years after diagnosis she is alive.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No evidence of cancer after a metastatic breast cancer diagnosis is a freaking miracle.

I don’t believe this. Metastatic is death sentence.

The wine is the likely culprit btw.

Metastatic does not mean an immediately death sentence. Many Stage 4 BC patients survive for 10-20 years if they take care of their health, continue to have treatment, and let's be honest, don't have a super aggressive cancer.

I'm a cancer survivor, but I feel for OP. I don't understand the negative responses. Yes, she's terminal, but if she is currently NED, she has some life left in her and he wants her to share it with him and the kids, or at least make some effort to be a part of the living.

I 100% get her feelings and how hard this must be, but she's just giving up and she has family who love her.

DP.
DH had an aunt who did survive for 13 years with stage 4 BC. Granted, she was old, and cancer develops slower in older people, but she just kept getting her chemos and went back to living.