Anonymous wrote:I’m shocked at how good these comments are. I’m sure somebody is going to come in and say how terrible OP’s husband is, and then some that will say that OP has vows she needs fo uphold no matter what, but for now, thank you PPs for getting it right.

So yeah, +1 to all these comments.

I can do one better and do it one post. OP's husband is terrible, but she has vows she needs to uphold. It's a very difficult situation. Therapy would be helpful as long as its a good one.

OP I wish you all the best, I can't imagine being in this position but I agree with everyone else here who said you and the kids are what your focus should be and that while your husband is free to figure out what this means for his future you are not obligated to wait around to find out what happens. That is a lot to ask of anyone and who knows if he'll want to continue the marriage once he's landed.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So a genuine question: does non-binary mean that they could become trans or that they remain who they are but may show characteristics of "other" gender? Could they also be gay as well?

I think OP has a lot to think about and has to live through a lot of uncertainty. Definitely get a counselor but also make her own decision somewhat quickly on next steps. I think they will take some time to process their thoughts and this could be stressful for OP unless she makes a decision for herself on the path to take.

No one can answer this, and probably OPs DH cannot even answer this right now. Feeling that you are a different gender may or may not have anything to do with sexual attraction.

This thread is horrifying in the ignorance it shows. I’m sure if OPs DH could have explored this in middle school, they wouldn’t have to blow up their life right now, but here they are. No one wants to hurt the people they love, but also no one wants to live the rest of their lives in a skin that doesn’t feel happy or right to them. I know the DCUM way is to suck everything up, and remain bitter, unhappy, and judgemental, but that isn’t to everyone. OP absolutely deserves to move forward with her life, but the advice here, as usual, seems to tend towards the nuclear option. She doesn’t need to process or move quickly. She needs to take the time and temps that are appropriate to her. No one is in danger. Yes, it will be stressful for OP, but so will divorce or anything else she does.

What I love about these discussions the very most are the self anointed experts who invariably arrive to announce that everyone else is ignorant... and then proceed to explain that of course the husband needs to invent his own personal gender in order to feel comfortable in his skin and that this trumps any obligation to his wife, kids, anyone.

Some people are so confident in the rightness of their views, they’re afraid to even have the topic discussed here.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So a genuine question: does non-binary mean that they could become trans or that they remain who they are but may show characteristics of "other" gender? Could they also be gay as well?

I think OP has a lot to think about and has to live through a lot of uncertainty. Definitely get a counselor but also make her own decision somewhat quickly on next steps. I think they will take some time to process their thoughts and this could be stressful for OP unless she makes a decision for herself on the path to take.

No one can answer this, and probably OPs DH cannot even answer this right now. Feeling that you are a different gender may or may not have anything to do with sexual attraction.

This thread is horrifying in the ignorance it shows. I’m sure if OPs DH could have explored this in middle school, they wouldn’t have to blow up their life right now, but here they are. No one wants to hurt the people they love, but also no one wants to live the rest of their lives in a skin that doesn’t feel happy or right to them. I know the DCUM way is to suck everything up, and remain bitter, unhappy, and judgemental, but that isn’t to everyone. OP absolutely deserves to move forward with her life, but the advice here, as usual, seems to tend towards the nuclear option. She doesn’t need to process or move quickly. She needs to take the time and temps that are appropriate to her. No one is in danger. Yes, it will be stressful for OP, but so will divorce or anything else she does.

DP. You're right that this is not something that has to move fast, but OP does need to go ahead and get a therapist for herself, I think. That is not something I'd wait around to do, in her circumstances. It may take her DH a very long time yet to decide what's going on with himself, but she should not wait on that before she starts getting a neutral third party professional to help her navigate this as it comes. Whatever happens, it will be good for her to have a sounding board that is not this forum or anywhere else online.

Agree 100% she needs individual counselling or therapy, and the children may benefit too.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So a genuine question: does non-binary mean that they could become trans or that they remain who they are but may show characteristics of "other" gender? Could they also be gay as well?

I think OP has a lot to think about and has to live through a lot of uncertainty. Definitely get a counselor but also make her own decision somewhat quickly on next steps. I think they will take some time to process their thoughts and this could be stressful for OP unless she makes a decision for herself on the path to take.

No one can answer this, and probably OPs DH cannot even answer this right now. Feeling that you are a different gender may or may not have anything to do with sexual attraction.

This thread is horrifying in the ignorance it shows. I’m sure if OPs DH could have explored this in middle school, they wouldn’t have to blow up their life right now, but here they are. No one wants to hurt the people they love, but also no one wants to live the rest of their lives in a skin that doesn’t feel happy or right to them. I know the DCUM way is to suck everything up, and remain bitter, unhappy, and judgemental, but that isn’t to everyone. OP absolutely deserves to move forward with her life, but the advice here, as usual, seems to tend towards the nuclear option. She doesn’t need to process or move quickly. She needs to take the time and temps that are appropriate to her. No one is in danger. Yes, it will be stressful for OP, but so will divorce or anything else she does.

What I love about these discussions the very most are the self anointed experts who invariably arrive to announce that everyone else is ignorant... and then proceed to explain that of course the husband needs to invent his own personal gender in order to feel comfortable in his skin and that this trumps any obligation to his wife, kids, anyone.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So a genuine question: does non-binary mean that they could become trans or that they remain who they are but may show characteristics of "other" gender? Could they also be gay as well?

I think OP has a lot to think about and has to live through a lot of uncertainty. Definitely get a counselor but also make her own decision somewhat quickly on next steps. I think they will take some time to process their thoughts and this could be stressful for OP unless she makes a decision for herself on the path to take.

No one can answer this, and probably OPs DH cannot even answer this right now. Feeling that you are a different gender may or may not have anything to do with sexual attraction.

This thread is horrifying in the ignorance it shows. I’m sure if OPs DH could have explored this in middle school, they wouldn’t have to blow up their life right now, but here they are. No one wants to hurt the people they love, but also no one wants to live the rest of their lives in a skin that doesn’t feel happy or right to them. I know the DCUM way is to suck everything up, and remain bitter, unhappy, and judgemental, but that isn’t to everyone. OP absolutely deserves to move forward with her life, but the advice here, as usual, seems to tend towards the nuclear option. She doesn’t need to process or move quickly. She needs to take the time and temps that are appropriate to her. No one is in danger. Yes, it will be stressful for OP, but so will divorce or anything else she does.

RE: the bold --While feeling he is a different gender (or non-binary, which is neither gender) may or may not have anything to do with the DH's attraction to women, his being non-binary, and his expression of it, might have a great deal to do with OP's attraction to him. I think OP got lost in your statement above. Of course the DH might decide he is only attracted to women and wants to remain married to OP, but OP has said she may have issues being attracted to him. I'm using "him" advisedly since the OP says he's not sure yet if he's going to use "they."

.
He is seeing an individual therapist for depression, which he only told me several months later-- he hides the depression well behind a stoic demeanor.

To OP: The line above from your original post jumped out at me.

The fact he was able to seek help for depression is a good thing. Many, many people, especially many men, do not want to talk to a therapist.

But the fact he hid it from you would make me question, in your position, what else he has kept hidden.

Clearly the feelings that he is non-binary are something he has felt he had to keep hidden until a certain point. That's understandable. It must have been concerning for him, wondering what he was feeling and how to express it to you. It's good he has told you that and possibly the therapy helped him get to the point he could tell you. Again, that's positive (as in, better than your not knowing).

But I would truly be asking him, please talk to me if there is anything else going on with you because I cannot start working through this if I feel there's any other shoe that's going to drop. Don't let any other things come out in slow drips or big revelations later.

I want to be clear, I am NOT trying to insinuate there is some Big Secret Still There. I'm saying that, by your own admission, he is very stoic and hides well, plus he hid the fact he was in therapy (did you also know he was depressed or did you only find that out after he came clean about being in therapy for it?). He is a person who doesn't share his thought processes with you, it seems. In your position as it is now, not being sure what happens next re: marriage, attraction, etc. -- I would want total transparency on both your parts to be the absolute rule.

Anonymous wrote:This is not the right forum for you. There absolutely are good therapists out there who specialize in this. Do not seek answers or advice here -- please.

Good luck.

This is probably the right advice OP.

I would tell my spouse they needed to move out and I guess I'd continue therapy. But the truth is this would be a dealbreaker and I would eventually seek an amicable divorce. I just wanted to put that out there because I believe that's a legitimate response. And it's not because I have animosity towards an LGBTQ person or the LGBTQ community. It's just not a bridge I can or am going to cross in a relationship.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So a genuine question: does non-binary mean that they could become trans or that they remain who they are but may show characteristics of "other" gender? Could they also be gay as well?

I think OP has a lot to think about and has to live through a lot of uncertainty. Definitely get a counselor but also make her own decision somewhat quickly on next steps. I think they will take some time to process their thoughts and this could be stressful for OP unless she makes a decision for herself on the path to take.

No one can answer this, and probably OPs DH cannot even answer this right now. Feeling that you are a different gender may or may not have anything to do with sexual attraction.

This thread is horrifying in the ignorance it shows. I’m sure if OPs DH could have explored this in middle school, they wouldn’t have to blow up their life right now, but here they are. No one wants to hurt the people they love, but also no one wants to live the rest of their lives in a skin that doesn’t feel happy or right to them. I know the DCUM way is to suck everything up, and remain bitter, unhappy, and judgemental, but that isn’t to everyone. OP absolutely deserves to move forward with her life, but the advice here, as usual, seems to tend towards the nuclear option. She doesn’t need to process or move quickly. She needs to take the time and temps that are appropriate to her. No one is in danger. Yes, it will be stressful for OP, but so will divorce or anything else she does.

DP. You're right that this is not something that has to move fast, but OP does need to go ahead and get a therapist for herself, I think. That is not something I'd wait around to do, in her circumstances. It may take her DH a very long time yet to decide what's going on with himself, but she should not wait on that before she starts getting a neutral third party professional to help her navigate this as it comes. Whatever happens, it will be good for her to have a sounding board that is not this forum or anywhere else online.

Anonymous wrote:So a genuine question: does non-binary mean that they could become trans or that they remain who they are but may show characteristics of "other" gender? Could they also be gay as well?

I think OP has a lot to think about and has to live through a lot of uncertainty. Definitely get a counselor but also make her own decision somewhat quickly on next steps. I think they will take some time to process their thoughts and this could be stressful for OP unless she makes a decision for herself on the path to take.

No one can answer this, and probably OPs DH cannot even answer this right now. Feeling that you are a different gender may or may not have anything to do with sexual attraction.

This thread is horrifying in the ignorance it shows. I’m sure if OPs DH could have explored this in middle school, they wouldn’t have to blow up their life right now, but here they are. No one wants to hurt the people they love, but also no one wants to live the rest of their lives in a skin that doesn’t feel happy or right to them. I know the DCUM way is to suck everything up, and remain bitter, unhappy, and judgemental, but that isn’t to everyone. OP absolutely deserves to move forward with her life, but the advice here, as usual, seems to tend towards the nuclear option. She doesn’t need to process or move quickly. She needs to take the time and temps that are appropriate to her. No one is in danger. Yes, it will be stressful for OP, but so will divorce or anything else she does.

NP and haven't read the entire thread, sorry if this is repetitive but: Besides getting an individual therapist for yourself, OP, to help you navigate all this: If your DH does go forward -- whatever that means -- please do some digging now, early, so you can be ready with an appropriate therapist for your children as needed. I know you said they're young, but unless young means pretty much infants, they are going to be aware that dad is different. I am NOT saying that's bad. If they're young it actually could be easier on them; they may not remember a time when dad didn't use some female presentation (if that's what happens) so it might just roll off them. But whatever form all this change takes, you might value the help of someone outside the family, a professional who has experience with kids, in case your own kids find any changes confusing.

Anonymous wrote:So a genuine question: does non-binary mean that they could become trans or that they remain who they are but may show characteristics of "other" gender? Could they also be gay as well?

I think OP has a lot to think about and has to live through a lot of uncertainty. Definitely get a counselor but also make her own decision somewhat quickly on next steps. I think they will take some time to process their thoughts and this could be stressful for OP unless she makes a decision for herself on the path to take.

Non binary just means neither man nor woman. Somebody who is non-binary doesn’t identify as either gender.

I don’t the names for sexual orientations of non-binary people, but some non-binary people are into everybody, some into people who are more feminine, etc. to me “straight” doesn’t really compute when you’re talking about somebody who is non-binary, but maybe there are some who identify that way.

He claims he needs more time to figure this out, but it's been six months of circular conversations and no progress. I fear he truly wants to transition but is hiding it to make me happy. Help?

I'm the (queer, female) PP who ended a relationship over my partner transitioning, and I want to reframe this a little. Your husband is wrestling with something really big, so I'm not surprised you don't have a good answer six months later. Also, he may well actually want to transition but he's not "hiding it to make you happy." He's scared of what it means, because it's a long, costly, socially isolating path.

But none of this means you have to go along for the ride. If you are not "oriented" toward a genderqueer or transfemme partner, you absolutely have the right to move on. You can cherish your time with someone, and support them in their new life, without actually being married to them.

Anonymous wrote:Dear OP,: Sorry to hear about your situation. You and your family will probably benefit a lot from counselling.

Dear posters making fun of the situation: this is a real thing that happens to people. Please try to be kind. Also, I understand from a woman who went through a similar situation that there's actually a big difference between sexual orientation (straight or gay) and gender identity (male, female, other). I am straight and never doubted by gender identity, and i never used to appreciate the difference between sexual orientation and gender identity, but now I get it, more or less. Maybe you will too.

Obviously OP did not sign up for this. So I have a lot of sympathy for OP. I also have some sympathy for most people in the position of the person OP married, who probably didn't understand what was happening inside their bodies and minds for many years.

ok thanks

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also, when he does unravel his feelings on his identity, there is the possibility you need to prepare yourself that he may not want to stay with you in the long term.

Seriously. He is likely gay. Have you felt like maybe he was from the beginning? Get planning and get out. Don't make it political.

Lots of men who transition prefer to be with women.

Yeah, the husband is almost certainly not gay. The previous experimentation with wigs, the mid-life "discovery" of the new identity following marriage to a woman and kids fits into a specific typology that it is no longer politically correct to mention. I would not be surprised to hear that the husband was successful in a stereotypically masculine or male-dominated field. This pattern is unfortunately quite common and it usually ends with divorce and estrangement from family as the transitioner interprets any negative feelings (including/especially from children) as threats to the new identity. Some names that fit this pattern to a greater or lesser degree:

Caitlyn Jenner
Dierdre McCloskey
Kristin Beck
Michele Bettencourt

If OP is still reading this, she needs to make clear that she will put her needs and the needs of the children first, and how the husband wants to handle this is up to them, but only they can make choices about what is most important. I hope that leads to a happy, united family with or without transition, but OP needs to be frank from the get-go.